Conflicting behavior, flying at head, help

Well my rescue parrot so called Sweetie (on the path for a new name, ahem) is now eating, enjoying her new playstand cage, and all her new toys sometimes. She's in love with the sink and wants to spend the day in there. We work at home, and I work in the LR that is a open LR,DR, Kitch set up. We've put towels and paper bags all over the counters to keep her off, and created a great play area. She still wants the sink. So we let her have it. Cleaned it all up and there she sits.

In the am she asks for me (the wife) to pet her, and we have a good head scritching time together. She wants more than that, I know as I have other girl parrots. But after that she hates me and loves my husband (though the foster home said she liked women, at least until the final comment as I got in the car to drive off with her, which was, "I am not really sure." So much for knowing what you will get with a rehome, ha ha).

Anyhoo, she is biting me, and today flew at my head biting me, my husband had to intervene. He can put her in her cage, I cannot. She is getting mean to me though I am the one feeding her, talking sweetly, giving her special treats, and am following advice for trying to build trust. She's fully flighted.

This was supposed to be a bird for me. I turned down a baby for her. I am feeling very dispirited and frustrated. She made me cry yesterday as she nailed my hand really bad (as I was trying to get her to come over for her dinner on the counter). She cares not.

Open to suggestions.

Aren't they something? They choose whom they like (or don't) as willy-nilly as people.

I'm so sorry you're experiencing this.

I suspect that if you're going to contain some of those behaviors, you'll have to clip wings. I don't want to do that, so I put up with the consequences of flighted-and-fearless! It's a very personal decision...

I have reduced biting to almost zero over the decades... not because I've changed the bird, but I have changed me. And a lot of that has involved giving up on a lot of my desires/expectations. After years of battle, I "compromised". I don't do stuff that gets me bitten. I NEVER do stuff that makes him mad... I don't touch others when he's out; I rarely try to get him to step up onto my hand first. Hand-held perch first, then hand. In some ways, I swallow my disappointment at having such a little monster for a pet, but he is what he is. I ALWAYS wear my hair down when he's on my shoulder, so all he can bite is hair. Really, I don't involve hands much... he doesn't like them. He seems to think the real ME is my head, perched on a weird moveable tree with questionable appendages.

Since he's fully flighted, the ONLY way I get him into the cage is to toss a chile pepper in and he flaps in after it. So food reward is a necessity for me. Time-out doesn't exist in the Rb's kingdom.

I have had some success with using the "earthquake" technique for biting. When he bites, give your hand a swift shake... it should make him let go. The idea... every time he bites, a mysterious earthquske shakes him up. Some people feel this is mean and/or engenders lack of trust. The same can work for clothes biting... give your shoulder a shake, or jump! For me, it has helped.

But please... listen to and try all the good advice you'll get here.

Don't compromise until you know you've done your best. I hope that then you can just accept and love whatever/whoever your bird turns out to be.

As you know, parrots aren't always easy pets to understand and control, and your bird sounds ALL-PARROT!

My Rickeybird is in some ways kind of a worse-case scenario, but we have it all worked out between the two of us.

Parrot-owners usually wind up determining their own personal comfort level with various behaviors, of course.

I hope my rambling helped a little. Good luck, and good for you for reaching out.

Let's see what other members think...

Any bird that is dive-bombing and attacking needs a wing clip.

That way, you get the control back you need and she has to rely more on you since she will not be able to fly or dive-bomb. I know people have differing opinions about wing-clipping, but when a bird is dive-bombing you and attacking, then it's time for an attitude adjustment. It's for everyone's safety, especially yours.

You'll be surprised at how much nicer she'll likely get after a clip when she realizes she can't get to where she wants to go anymore without you.

when it's a mater of safety (human or bird) wing clipping becomes a must.
remember it's only temporary. the feathers will grow back and hopfully the problem will be resolved by then.

8Ehm ... is she new in the house?

I am not really sure which of the 3 species you mention with your name is the new one -sorry.
Just guessing its the timney? (Because that one is mentioned on top-list but not in the bottemsection)

Sounds to me she is just testing her boundries and winning!


(You can not put her back in her cage? Really- your towels have all disappeared? You have no oven-mitts?)
I know this forum is all about earning trust and coorperating - but if you are being hen-pecked by your parrot something is wrong!
It is like taking orders from a toddler!



(easy for me to say: my CAG on occasion divebombs the macaw. I try to keep them seperated as much as possible. She is starting to stand up for herself- and it had gotten a lot less because he does not get away with it so easily anymore. Now she lost her tail <again> is less securely perched etc. and day before yesterday he tried again ... So it is partly her attitude/ being more vulnerable that triggers him! I am going to work on them once they get over the hormonal-phase, right now its one-on-one / individual.)


I realise its about building trust - and that does seem not combine well with punisment.
There is punishment and there are consequences ... if you attack -> you get put back in the cage, is the latter.
I do not think that "I am ignoring you" will work with a parrot that is actually flying in your face. You need to be firmer in saying "no" this is not acceptable.

So she is hormonal and taking it out on you?
Well ... you did not give in to her invitation to mate, now she is frustrated...I can see no reason you have to give in to her other need: to be her punching bag to vent her frustration.
A cage is a fine place to demolish some hapless toy or bite down on a piece of wood.
Just get her there! (By yourself: she attacks you - you do something about it!)

By getting your hubby to fix your problem for you, you are just telling her you are easy prey and available to vent frustrations upon.
She accepts your food, scritches, attention etc. enthousiasticly so now just explain you have boundries too.

And on the subject of boundries... maybe (in her eyes) you are overstepping hers a bit?
Getten bit while trying to get her to go somewhere she does not want to... you probably missed a warning or two?

Your parrot is hormonal, and probably defending her territoy/ nesting site (a sink is a nice place for some eggs wouldn't you say so?) and you guys let her take over (ownership of) parts of the house.
(the last one I find unacceptable, but thats just the way people roll I guess/ here it is: "my house, my rules" first, if you like to sit somewhere by all means enjoy yourself, but no biting because you think it is now "yours".)

Everyone should respect the houserules, that is not about dominance or forcing the other party-- in the end its all about living together.




°°°°
Anansi said it much better in http://www.parrotforums.com/training/63988-bite-pressure-training.html ±


" Bites happen for a variety of reasons. Most commonly, a bird might bite out of fear, annoyance, or over-stimulation. Many of these bites can be avoided by observing your bird's body language and respecting their feelings.

I'm not saying a bird should get to run your household, but consideration for their wants and desires goes a long way.



I've always viewed this kind of training as a two-way street. I'm letting my birds know what I find acceptable in terms of communication, and at the same time I'm paying attention to their (pre-bite) attempts to communicate their own likes and dislikes to me. "
.

ChristaNL and others, thanks so much for the advice. Its so great to have such a place for help and skill building.

Yes, this is the Timneh we took on 2 weeks ago. She is between 8-10 yr old supposedly. She has been in between a rescue and the owners home for most of that time. Flighted always but kept in smaller cages (2x2x3) for much of that at the rescue and at the owners.

1) I agree, we have given the bird way to much leeway. In part because we were trying to build trust and get her acclimated to way of living, which is our birds are integral to our daily living and we work from home so around a lot). We tried to follow advice of 'don't get bit = don't make bird do what it is telling you it does not want to do' (which come with the signs of 'I am going to bite.'

2) Yes, I agree, she is hormonal. The sink. Bad idea, but the foster said she was just like that and laughed. She had never had an issue (she is however a single woman, with no apparent potential mate for the bird). We have now covered the sink with a cutting board and towels. We also put open paper bags over all of our counters so she could not longer fly onto them (which was dangerous for her). So now she cannot land.

3) My allowing her to bite me was my attempt to 'not put up with that and not be pushed around.' Some advice has been to 'simply not react to biting and that way they learn that it is ineffective.' Ok, so perhaps that is the wrong approach too. Its hard not to react as her bites are deep and hurt. So, back to drawing board on this one.

4) Towels and things on my hands, not happening. She is afraid of towels and cloth. Will try gloves, a heavy coat perhaps. Will not 'give her hubby' - great point that she is getting what she wants with that.

5) 'Giving the bird what she wants and desires' is exactly what we were trying to do in order to build trust and bond with her. With both of our other rescues, this is how we proceeded. We had the 'normal' issues, but nothing like this. Both our other birds (consure, CAG) got with the program quite well. The CAG had a pretty awful repertoire of sayings and calls initially (gunfire, "shut up!", bombs going off, and a whole litany of violent video game sounds). She now says, 'Come here!', Come on, Hello!, What? Mumbles, Whatever, and whistles. We got through that.

6) Hormones - she needs a sleep cage in a dark room where she can sleep longer than she can in the living room. The longer light is what keeps them hormonal? Right, that at least seems to be what I am reading.

Next steps:

a) we are walling off the kitchen with curtains until this blows over. So no more counter and no more sink time.

b) She has a nice play stand. So that is checked off. Bigger cage would be nice, but have wait to another paycheck for that.

c) Heavy coat for me to step her up with

d) Clip or not to? Read a lot on the forum of diff peoples ideas on this. Our contract says we cannot clip her wings. Probably were stupid to sign that! Neither of our other birds are clipped.

e) adapt her to sleep cage in dark room for equal 12/12 hour sleep/awake times so hormones reduce.

f) get her another vet appt to see why she is so dang skinny


Main frustration (likely a lot of peoples) = balancing the bonding needs of giving the bird what she needs and makes here happy, while also not using "punishment" techniques when she behaves in dangerous ways for herself or us.

We do not cage our birds all day. They are on them, around them, but their doors open when we get up and shut if we leave the house or go to bed (or cannot monitor). We pretty much hate cages. We hate cages more than we do clipping. The previous caretakers chose cages over clipping (to us prison over limited movement).

So,if the consequences are putting them in the cage, wouldn't that lead to biting more as she would just think uhoh I bit so now she will force me to the cage? I did not want to set up a routine of when she steps up, its cage time.

Anyhoo...that's where we are.

Researching how to adapt a bird to a smaller sleep cage and another room....

Thanks so much for your advice. Trying to do our best.

Would be interested to know what your CAV says about why she is under weight.

Gracie averages about 508g and my CAV agrees with me that she is under weight.I'm not really making any progress. All her labs were good in April but have not taken radiographs. I'm not feeding her a fatty diet but I am feeding more protein and giving her
more exercise. So since April she has only gained 8g

Birdie:
I soooo hear you: the balancing act between gaining trust and showing boundries always gets me too!

I holliday-sat a CAG that learned to bite deep and fast whenever something bothered him- they are not fun! (The one time I ever used ovenmitts on a parrot in my life)
Boy- he made me run out of bandaids *fast*
His biggest issue was : he was a 'decoration parrot' in his own house- and did not have any confidence, because he never did anything/ never figured anything out (and of course could not fly). The moment he *did* things the biting became a lot less.

So you have my sympathies!

Great you are going to curb those hormones!
The moment you can work with her (the whole clickertraining etc.) you get a different parrot.
Overhere Timney have the reputation of being more selfrelient than CAG's - so they are not so needy when it comes to interaction / I am not so sure (reputation is only a word, and we have few timneys compared to CAGs).

-
TOM- are you talking about real grams here?
(or the american version)
If you mean kilograms she sounds about average to me; mine are both around that all the time (496/498 gram) even though Appie is a head shorter!
She only passes the 500 gram-mark when is about to lay an egg.


rule of thumb here (normal range):
CAG: 400-500 grams (smaller birds at the 400 mark of course)
TAG: 300-360 grams
.


Oh btw: your birds are bloody lucky to have you!


I wish I could offer them so much space and freedom.
(The CAGs are flighted, so I have to put them in the large cage if they are somewhere doing something they should not be doing, otherwise they are back at it before I have turned around)
(the macaw clips herself )

Yes the vet was surprised by her weight and how skinny she is. She weighted 500g at her last official weighing at the vet. She is a large CAG.

I wish to apologize to Birdee for the blatant hijacking of this thread.