Grey breaking her rear wings

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 13, 2018

Hello there. Me and my family have recently noticed that Haiiro, our African Grey, has been biting and breaking her rear wings and sometimes tail. We have found several whole broken feathers in the cage or on the floor and we really do not know what to do. In the area where we live there is no bird vet or vet who knows anything about birds so I came here to gather some opinions on the matter. I have heard that she does that because she knows they are problematic and she wants to get rid of them in orded to grow her non-problematic wings back. I really do not know what is going on with her and I would appreciate any help given considering the matter! Thank you for your time! (and excuse me for my English:01

ChristaNL · Aug 13, 2018

Wing Theory ? Oga Clicks

if you need the words
(english is also my 3rd lanquage, so I understand)

Maybe you can find some answers here: http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html
(a lot of reading, sorry)

Maybe post pictures? (fastest way is: use https://imgur.com/ for your pictures and post the links here)

Great name for an african grey btw

it sounds very elegant.
Where on the planet are you?

EllenD · Aug 13, 2018

Are you absolutely certain that she is the one purposely breaking them (do you actually see her purposely doing this), or are you just finding the broken pieces of feather laying in her cage? The reason I ask is that I've seen this quite a bit with parrots brought into the Rescue I work with, especially in larger parrots, where it's their tail feathers and then just the very back ends of their wings...and 90% or more of the time it's because the cage the bird is in is too small for it, or too far too cramped with dozens of toys, perches, hanging items, etc....Usually it's strictly due to the fact that the cage they are in is far too small for them, and they are constantly damaging their feathers every time they turn around, open up their wings, etc. Usually the feathers are damaged on the cage bars to the point where they are just hanging there, and at that point the bird may pull them the entire way off, or they just fall off.

I don't know what size of cage you have your Grey in, but as I'm sure you know, an African Grey needs a very, very large cage in comparison to most parrots...I'm assuming your bird is a Congo African Grey? If you haven't ever actually seen her purposely working on chewing her feathers off (I'm not talking about daily preening, that is totally normal; they have to really work at their feathers for a long period of time to actually break them all off as you describe), and you're just finding her broken feather pieces laying in her cage, you may want to consider the size of her cage. Just an FYI...

Otherwise, if your Grey is actually working at her tail and wing feathers purposely to the point that she's breaking them off, then this is a form of plucking/feather-destructive behavior, and you need to try to figure out what is causing her to do this. I would normally tell you that the very first thing you need to do is take her to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist as soon as possible, as often this is a result of a physical illness or injury/pain that the bird is in, there are a ton of physical/health/medical issues that can cause them to pluck the feathers that are around the back of their body, such as the tail, the back wing tips, around the vent, on the legs, etc. So normally you first want to rule-out medical issues like infections in the Gastrointestinal Tract, the Urinary Tract and Kidneys, etc. The you want to rule-out any parasites, such as many different types of mites, fleas, other insects, etc. Feather mites are a common cause. If you don't have access to an Avian Vet then this becomes a problem, as there's no way to find out if it is a medical issue.

Moving on to behavioral issues that can cause this, again, there are a million causes, though with an extremely intelligent parrot like a Grey, it usually has something to do with the bird being very bored, understimulated, not getting enough attention, having nothing to do, no toys or only a few toys that they've had forever without any change, no foraging activities, not enough time out of their cage, not enough time with their person or people, etc. So you need to look at her entire environment, her daily routine, hours out of her cage every day, amount of time she gets to spend with you, what activities and toys she has to do, how many and what types, are their different types of activities for her, etc. Does she always have a "job" to do to keep her buys, etc. There is nothing more tragic than a parrot with the intelligence of a 4-5 year-old human child that has nothing to do, gets no attention, and just sits in a cage all day long by itself. I'm not saying that is what your bird's situation is, just that it's a very common situation, especially with a large parrot that you admitted doesn't get along with anyone in your family but you...

Also, what is your birds regular, daily diet? What does she normally eat throughout a single day?

MonicaMc · Aug 13, 2018

Pictures of the feathers and of her would help.

Scott · Aug 14, 2018

Pictures and/or videos would be extremely helpful. None of us are veterinarians, but have a wealth of experience to share.

Easiest way to upload pics is via Imgur, YouTube links for videos!

Bill is from Greece, per welcome thread: http://www.parrotforums.com/new-members-welcome/76686-greetings.html

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 17, 2018

ChristaNL said:
Wing Theory ? Oga Clicks

if you need the words
(english is also my 3rd lanquage, so I understand)

Maybe you can find some answers here: http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html
(a lot of reading, sorry)

Maybe post pictures? (fastest way is: use https://imgur.com/ for your pictures and post the links here)

Great name for an african grey btw it sounds very elegant.
Where on the planet are you?

Thanks for the links! I come from Greece!

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 17, 2018

EllenD said:
Are you absolutely certain that she is the one purposely breaking them (do you actually see her purposely doing this), or are you just finding the broken pieces of feather laying in her cage? The reason I ask is that I've seen this quite a bit with parrots brought into the Rescue I work with, especially in larger parrots, where it's their tail feathers and then just the very back ends of their wings...and 90% or more of the time it's because the cage the bird is in is too small for it, or too far too cramped with dozens of toys, perches, hanging items, etc....Usually it's strictly due to the fact that the cage they are in is far too small for them, and they are constantly damaging their feathers every time they turn around, open up their wings, etc. Usually the feathers are damaged on the cage bars to the point where they are just hanging there, and at that point the bird may pull them the entire way off, or they just fall off.

I don't know what size of cage you have your Grey in, but as I'm sure you know, an African Grey needs a very, very large cage in comparison to most parrots...I'm assuming your bird is a Congo African Grey? If you haven't ever actually seen her purposely working on chewing her feathers off (I'm not talking about daily preening, that is totally normal; they have to really work at their feathers for a long period of time to actually break them all off as you describe), and you're just finding her broken feather pieces laying in her cage, you may want to consider the size of her cage. Just an FYI...

Otherwise, if your Grey is actually working at her tail and wing feathers purposely to the point that she's breaking them off, then this is a form of plucking/feather-destructive behavior, and you need to try to figure out what is causing her to do this. I would normally tell you that the very first thing you need to do is take her to a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist as soon as possible, as often this is a result of a physical illness or injury/pain that the bird is in, there are a ton of physical/health/medical issues that can cause them to pluck the feathers that are around the back of their body, such as the tail, the back wing tips, around the vent, on the legs, etc. So normally you first want to rule-out medical issues like infections in the Gastrointestinal Tract, the Urinary Tract and Kidneys, etc. The you want to rule-out any parasites, such as many different types of mites, fleas, other insects, etc. Feather mites are a common cause. If you don't have access to an Avian Vet then this becomes a problem, as there's no way to find out if it is a medical issue.

Moving on to behavioral issues that can cause this, again, there are a million causes, though with an extremely intelligent parrot like a Grey, it usually has something to do with the bird being very bored, understimulated, not getting enough attention, having nothing to do, no toys or only a few toys that they've had forever without any change, no foraging activities, not enough time out of their cage, not enough time with their person or people, etc. So you need to look at her entire environment, her daily routine, hours out of her cage every day, amount of time she gets to spend with you, what activities and toys she has to do, how many and what types, are their different types of activities for her, etc. Does she always have a "job" to do to keep her buys, etc. There is nothing more tragic than a parrot with the intelligence of a 4-5 year-old human child that has nothing to do, gets no attention, and just sits in a cage all day long by itself. I'm not saying that is what your bird's situation is, just that it's a very common situation, especially with a large parrot that you admitted doesn't get along with anyone in your family but you...

Also, what is your birds regular, daily diet? What does she normally eat throughout a single day?

Hey there! Thank you for dedicating so much time for us! We made sure that Haiiro is biting and breaking her wings on purpose. But she is not plucking any feathers from the rest of her body. She is just trying to break her rear ones.( I will be posting some pictures of her in a while). Now about the cage... It has plenty of space in it and has a sufficient amount of toys that are changed when she gets bored of them. The toys do not occupy a lot of space so Haiiro can strech her wings with ease. Her daily diet consists of pellets as her main meal but we give her a lot of fruits, vegetables and sunflower seeds throughout the whole day. Haiiro is getting a lot of attention as we let her out of the cage at least 3 to 4 hours everyday. The only problem is that no one is home until 14:00 so we always leave the TV or the radio on. I should also mention that I am the only one that can take her out of the cage,as I am not afraid of her biting me, but when she is in her cage everyone is giving her lots and lots of attention as she can't bite anyone. :grey:

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 17, 2018

https://imgur.com/a/RO3uxmX

https://imgur.com/a/QGMZThz

https://imgur.com/a/BzUxS4s (this is what she does)

https://imgur.com/a/yizlsSn (here's one so you can see that she is not plucking all of her feathers)

https://imgur.com/a/dNA8nki (and here's one where she's trying to steal my phone)

In these pictures you can see that the only feathers that are plucked or broken are the ones that are located on the sides and not on any other part of her body.

Scott · Aug 17, 2018

Beautiful bird, but I cannot see the third and fourth images! You've shown enough pics to suggest she is not a chronic picker, most of her feathers are perfect. Hard to know why she is chewing specific feathers, maybe she likes the longer stalks on her wings?

Perhaps other members will share ideas. The key is to stop this behavior if possible, and definitely prevent from extending to other areas. Unfortunately plucking is a rather difficult syndrome, and much has been written. This thread is a comprehensive study of avian feather plucking: http://www.parrotforums.com/behavioral/52217-plucking-search-answers.html

EllenD · Aug 17, 2018

A few of those links didn't show any photos for me, but from the first 2 it's pretty obvious that she's definitely chewing the ends off.

How long have you had her? Did she come to you this way, or is this something that she started doing after she came to you? Did this start after any big changes in her life or in her environment, such as after she was adopted by you, after she got a new cage, after you moved her cage to a new location in your house, after you got another bird or another pet of any kind was brought into the house, a new baby or a new person in the house, etc.? It's difficult, but if she didn't come to you with her feathers like this and it's something that only started after you adopted her, then you need to try to think of any changes, big or small, that occurred right before or around the time that she started this behavior...If it started pretty directly after you adopted her, then that's probably what triggered the behavior, as being re-homed is a huge change for them that is extremely stressful. However, if it didn't start until a good time after you adopted her, then you need to try to think about what may have triggered her to start doing this. And even the smallest, tiniest little change, even things that you think insignificant, could have been the trigger to her. Any changes in her own, personal environment or the household itself could have caused it, any illnesses, injuries, or major stresses in her life could have triggered it. Any big change in her diet.

Again, I'll stress that a physical or health issue should always be ruled-out first, and the only way to do this is to get her to a vet that can do a complete physical exam and then at the very least a Fecal-Culture to rule-out any type of GI or Renal infection, either bacterial, fungal, or both. Ideally you would also have a full, routine blood-panel done to check her blood-cell counts, as well as her liver and kidney functions. The problem is that without being able to rule-out a physical/health issue, anything that you might try to remedy the problem will be futile, as it's not going to help the health issue...

I know you said you don't have any Certified Avian Vets anywhere near you, but do you have any Exotics Vets that treat parrots/birds, or even a livestock vet that treats poultry birds? Pretty much any vet can do a Fecal Culture, even a general vet that treats dogs/cats can do that...And a poultry vet should be able to do a routine blood-draw from her neck, it doesn't require any anesthesia and really should be done so that you can at the very least see her white blood cell count, red blood cell count, and her liver and kidney functions.

ChristaNL · Aug 17, 2018

LOL, you did a clever thing by making her a perch ... on a lamp.

But....does she touch the metal with her beak sometimes? (it is very close to her feet)

I noticed it is a bit flaky/rusty looking and birds and metal-flakes... not a good combination... she could get what we call metalpoisening from it, and it will make her feel not very good (and probably itch -> that could make her bite).
So...just to be carefull: can you make her something from just wood?

(you should be able to get some good olive branches

)

Oh...and plze trade in the sunflower seeds for pistachio-parts (non-salted!!)
Sunflowerseed taste really nice, but is fatty and not very nourishing (it means not many usefull mineralls etc. that her body needs but many fats that she does not need).
Small pieces of pistachio or almons-slivers (tiny pieces) make far better treats.

I am glad everybody in your family loves her and cares about her.
Greys love a family (they are flockbirds).

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 18, 2018

Hey there. At the moment Haiiro has lost her ability to fly. We asked a friend that has Greys as well and he told us that the reason why she does that is because she wants to get rid of them and to get them to re-grow as she knows they are problematic but I don't really believe thatthis is the case. She started doing that before 2 weeks (maybe a little bit less) and has not stopped since. I really do not know what triggered it but there were no special changes the past 2 weeks. The cage is the same, nobody has left our home for more than a couple of hours, no change in her diet and she gets her daily dose of out of the cage fun. Even though she breaks her feathers She is a really happy bird, thats what I think so at least. She whistles and talks, she flies and always plays with us but she just cannot stop biting her wings.Now concerning the vets. I really do not trust the vets in our town. I am scared to even think about letting them touch her. There is a livestock vet in our area, though, that might actually fit the job.

Oh something I forgot to mention. We adopted her almost 10 months ago and as I already said she started doing that 2 weeks ago.

Bill_Papageorgiou · Aug 18, 2018

ChristaNL said:
LOL, you did a clever thing by making her a perch ... on a lamp.

But....does she touch the metal with her beak sometimes? (it is very close to her feet)

I noticed it is a bit flaky/rusty looking and birds and metal-flakes... not a good combination... she could get what we call metalpoisening from it, and it will make her feel not very good (and probably itch -> that could make her bite).
So...just to be carefull: can you make her something from just wood?

(you should be able to get some good olive branches )

Oh...and plze trade in the sunflower seeds for pistachio-parts (non-salted!!)
Sunflowerseed taste really nice, but is fatty and not very nourishing (it means not many usefull mineralls etc. that her body needs but many fats that she does not need).
Small pieces of pistachio or almons-slivers (tiny pieces) make far better treats.

I am glad everybody in your family loves her and cares about her.
Greys love a family (they are flockbirds).

Hey there once again

Even though the lamp is from metal it is not flaky or rusty. It is just the color of it. I honestly did not know about what metal could do to them thank you very very much for telling me that. We will try and look for someone to build (I don't know if that's the right word to use

) a perch for us ASAP.

As for the sunflower seeds we use them as her main treats and we use pistacchio as her goodnight treat (I don't really know if we are the only ones doing that but we give her a tasty little treat before going to bed). Should we change that?

MonicaMc · Aug 19, 2018

Build, yes!

I don't see an issue with giving her a treat for going to bed!

Would it be possible to increase bathes to at least once a day (if not more frequently) and start having her foraging for food instead of eating it out of a bowl? That way, she's spending more time trying to eat and less time going after her feathers?

ChristaNL · Aug 19, 2018

I think may people give their bird a bedtime treat / nothing wrong with that.

Birds like to sleep on a full stomach.

Molting in african greys: they only change one (big) flightfeather at the time; usually one on the right wing & one on the left wing. So they can always fly away when they need to.
(Geese do it the other way- they molt all of the flightfeathers almost at once, because they need their wings fully operational for the long migration south/ north)
So when there are more grey-feathers missing ... something is a bit crazy.
The same with the tail- only one at the same time (sometimes you find a smaller one as well, that is okay-- I am talking about the large ones)

I was talking about the lamp because it looks like it is a lovely elder one, made of brass. Brass is made by mixing copper (Cu) and zink (Sn).
Copperoxide (the greenish stuff you see on statues etc.) is toxic to almost everyone and zinc is a problem for birds. Just wiping the beak or climbing on it and getting verry, verry small particles in the beak can get it into big trouble.

Thats why we always go with -just in case- plans.
So use only safe materials around the bird, because you really never know.

(My first parrot once snuck up om my mum using the vacuumcleaner and bit through 2 of the 3 electric-cables -- he got bloody lucky, he missed the one with the current going through it! But we almost all had heart-attacks!)

Grey breaking her rear wings

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Is there a Red Factor Timneh?

Aaah a feathered pillow

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