how many times a year do CAGs do this.

Flying to dark corners... check
so so so wanting to be in that sock draw and kitchen junk draw.... check
trying to feed me when she is on my shoulder.... check
wings out and hanging low, quiet clucking noises.... check
will not be separated from me.... check
will not go to bed..... check
trying to nest on anything, scraping feet backwards.... check
absolute cuddle MONSTER..... check

Enzo is at it again, probably the fourth time in 15 months of her landing into my life. She even tried to climb on to a toy plastic ball as if on an egg, in fact she paid more attention to the ball than she ever did to any of her own eggs.

why are all of the hens in my life total lunatics? But oh so lovable

How many times has she laid eggs? I hope you get advice on how to get her out if the breeding mood! Is she a good girl otherwise?

only once a year ... almost all year


not as extreme as you describe - but yea, a bit too clingy for comfort
Appie expects me to feed her instead - so she if forever trying to get her beak inside my mouth.
(no eggs this year, thank goodness -- giving her the cold shoulder and keeping strict natural daylighthours helps a tiny bit, but the moment nighttime is too short... it explodes again)


I consider the chickenscratches as part of their natural behaviour- they've all done that, in the cage, on the floor etc. hens and roosters alike.

Laurasea said:

How many times has she laid eggs? I hope you get advice on how to get her out if the breeding mood! Is she a good girl otherwise?

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just the once, 4 in total with a day or two between each egg. Ive tried every thing to stop her doing this but she keeps on doing it. And yep shes is a great girl in general, love her to bits. the days are quickly drawing in now so ive even got an avian bulb near her cage to keep the days the same length. but no difference, i just hope she doesnt get depressed over it all.

ChristaNL said:

only once a year ... almost all year

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Aint that the truth! I think a male CAG would be a lot easier.

not as extreme as you describe - but yea, a bit too clingy for comfort
Appie expects me to feed her instead - so she if forever trying to get her beak inside my mouth.
(no eggs this year, thank goodness -- giving her the cold shoulder and keeping strict natural daylighthours helps a tiny bit, but the moment nighttime is too short... it explodes again)

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Ok, there might be a clue for me there.. Since moving back home, kelly has been staying more often at my house, she leaves 2 hours before i drag my self out of bed as she works a lot earlier than I. So, she is getting less uninterrupted sleep, maybe 6-7hrs some days. she never gets the full 10-12 hours the vet recommends as im a bit of a night owl and dont need much sleep. Ill try working on that.

She wont go my mouth for food, which i'm happy about, but she will eat from my hand quite happily.

I consider the chickenscratches as part of their natural behaviour- they've all done that, in the cage, on the floor etc. hens and roosters alike.

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Enzo only seems to do that when in a potential nesting spot, its supposed to be a foraging action isnt it..?

Well Smokey was a TAG not a CAG,and was wild caught,and was the only Grey I ever had a relationship with me,so here is my input for what it's worth.

Smokes was about 6 months when she came home from the pet shop with me.
Now looking back, I think I can be pretty certain that "she"was actually a "he", I never did do a dna on her.

In her way too short twenty-eight years of life she never laid an egg,another reason I think she was a he.


My living room has a "fake" fireplace between two book cases and she was forever climbing into it and hiding.


Wings out and gurgling/coo'ing oh yes! Only certain times of the year though!


Being wild caught she detested hands! Would only step up if last opyion and quickly flutter off as soon as she got the chance.

However,she would sit for hours on my shoulder,nibbling at my ear lobe,glasses,coo in my ear,regurg on me.


At times would fight me tooth and nail when it was bedtime!


She never exhibited any type of nesting..yes would shred newspapers but that's it.


Cuddle?? You have to be kidding,right??? No way!

Just my experience with a grey.
Sounds like Enzo is an awesome fid..I envy you lol


Jim

I read that parrots should be put to bed between 5 and 6 pm in a dark room to discourage hormonal behavior . Peanut goes to bed between 8 and 9 and I think she'd fuss if I put her to bed earlier though. She has a routine that she kind of likes to stick to like an 80 year old lady set in her ways. She's not a cag, but I imagine they're all similar regarding hormones. She's been kind of clingy too lately.

bigfellasdad said:

Aint that the truth! I think a male CAG would be a lot easier.

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Nope ..
Japie is about the same: ( And yes- he will do the mating display a lot ) lots of desperate phone-sex-noises when he is on my shoulder, wings down, moving around a lot, trying to climb on my head and (less annoying) he will try to feed me every opportunity he gets.
.
It is really sad, but some days it is the number one reason he get kicked of my shoulder and back to the cage.
(sounds more dramatic than it is- he just flies right back, given the opportunity -> I turn it into a flying excercise for him so it will be a fun interaction for both)

Some days he is a normal -non hormonal driven- cuddly grey that wants nothing more than loads and loads of head&neck-scritches and flying around and exploring, and then something happens that sets him of again ...
(and no- I have not found that trigger yet, could be something he ate, the neighbours doing DIY late at night, even the phase of the moon ... )


Part of it is my fault- their food is a bit too rich for them -> they raid the macaw-cage ( a lot!),
and if they are in prime condition ...they are in great shape to breed, and their bodies know it!
(and they are not afraid to show it )

(the double edged knife/sword again: take good care of them and they will let you know they've found a prime spot for some family-life ...)


Cutting out fruit helps a bit / more veggies, sleeping longer helps, even lower night-temperatures does the trick sometimes.
The harvestseason (autumn) is almost over and I feed what I can get on the market- so the abundant extraas will peter off naturally with the shorter days.

Thanks guys, it sounds like she is just acting normally then, and again its down to me to try and correct things (ie how I am caring for her!).


There is no way I can get her to bed as early as you Sandy, I don't get home from work until 6:00pm and I get up for work at 7:30am, leaving for work at 8:30am. I think if I get her to bed at 9pm I would be doing REALLY well, whether Enzo sleeps is another matter though lol, but ill try. Its not a lot of time for her interaction time though.



I keep her in the kitchen, I always have, as its my largest room downstairs and the views out of the windows are in to the woodland so there are always birds around. If I where to fetch a beer from the fridge no matter how long Enzo has been 'asleep' for, I guarantee she will make a 'pouring drink' noise, she knows I like my Guinness hhhm, maybe I get a beer fridge in the study and spend more time there during hormonal times...



And Jim, yep she's an incredible Fid and I really do know how lucky I am to have her in my life.

I guess I've been lucky with Perjo she has rarely fought with me about going to bed. From day one I've always said "get ready for bed" about 10-30 minutes before I put her down. So if by chance I have to leave for hours (much earlier than her usual bedtime like 5-6pm) I can actually get her to agree to get inside the cage and cover it and she's almost happy about it.

I grew-up with a male CAG, from when I was 9 years-old until, well, now...he's 33 and I'm 38 now, and he's still my brother...and he acted in most of the ways you listed all the time anyway, he is quite cuddly for a Gray. But he would have his hormonal moments when his "nipping" would start; he lives with my mom and stepfather now, and he's the only bird in the house now, as opposed to growing up with dozens of breeder birds, so he's less jealous and less "dominant" behaving now, but my mom has always kept him on a "Natural Light Schedule", which seemingly has worked to keep his hormones pretty much at-bay.

***I don't at all suggest putting any type of artificial light on him or near his cage, whether it's a "bird light" or not...There are a millions reasons why they are terrible for birds, I won't go into all of the potential health issues that they tend to cause (especially if the bulb you have is a "coil/spiral" type of bulb, if it is I highly advise you get it off of her, as they ALL emit harmful light-rays that are a by-product of the manufacturing process used to make them, and they ALL tend to cause eye damage,
blindness, skin damage, basal and/or squamous cell carcinoma, melanoma, etc. in reptiles, amphibians, birds, etc.; if you really must use an artificial light, assuming it's a "UVB emitting bulb", as most of them are, then you want to use ONLY either a long UVB tube-light inside of a long strip/tube-light fixture, as they are the most beneficial and the safest, as long as they have a UVB output of at least 10.0 and a strength of at least T10, but again, unnecessary. Anyway, the idea of a "Natural Light Schedule" that decreases hormonal behavior isn't to make the "days longer", it's to allow the bird to go to wake-up and go to sleep with the natural sunlight. So this schedule is going to change as the season's change, just as they do in nature for wild birds, who don't typically have any issues with chronic hormonal behavior or egg-laying. Using a light on your birds to seemingly "make the days longer" is only going to make her hormonal behavior worse!

A "Natural Light Schedule" is allowing the bird's cage or wherever the bird sleeps to be in a place where they can see the sunrise in the morning and the sunset in the evening, or at least in a room with a window where the light changes with the sunrise and sunset. And making sure that the bird wakes-up in the morning at sunrise, which they typically do anyway, as they can typically see the sunrise, but the big one is putting them to bed/sleep right as they watch the sunset, regardless of what time that might occur...That's why it's called a "Natural Light Schedule". The more light you are exposing her to in the evenings with an artificial light, the more hormonal she's going to become, so this is counterproductive to what you're trying to accomplish...

And another reason i've heard people say they have purchases a "bird light" or artificial UVB light for their bird is because they've heard that if the bird absorbs more UVB light, this will cause their hormones to shut-down. Again, the result is absolutely the opposite. The more UVB a bird absorbs, the more Vitamin D3 their body is going to manufacture. The more Vitamin D3 a bird has in their system, the more Calcium they are going to be able to absorb from the food they eat. And the more Calcium they absorb, the more hormonal they are going to be, as their body is ready to make eggs, and obviously this has a more prominent effect on female birds than males as far as the UVB light goes. Pet/captive birds should get more than enough Calcium/Phosphorous and Vitamin D3 from the food they eat, they aren't like certain reptiles/amphibians who's bodies cannot absorb any Calcium at all without being under constant UVB, as their bodies don't manufacture Vitamin D3 at all without it. It's just not the same situation at all.

Either way, extending your bird's days with an artificial light is counterproductive if you're trying to stop her natural hormonal behavior.

Thank you so much Ellen, my UVB bulb is indeed a coil type, positioned about 60cm to the side of her cage and pointing down. Ill remove it immediately! The packaging actually states it is an avian quality bulb, and quite expensive if i remember correctly.


The natural light schedule just isn't workable for my home as human work life is not depicted by sunset/sunrise its all by the clock, as we know. Here in the UK during the winter months we go to work in the dark and come home in the dark. Let me have a think if there is anything I can do to change things.....my company are very flexible on how, where and when I work, maybe I can come up with a winter plan.

Just an update really,


Enzo is now in her home around 7:30pm to 8pm *most* nights, the light has gone too. As its dark when I get home I leave a light on for her and from 7:15pm I slowly lower the light levels until near darkness at her bed time. She's cleary getting more sleep than she usually gets so she is waking me up a lot earlier, 6:45am I awake to ..... "DAD!, DAD!...come her!" which is ok by me as the flirting and desperate need to find a nesting place has pretty much fallen away. She still wants to go into my socks draw and her favourite draw in the kitchen but im not letting her.


So, again, thanks all....... you cracked it

Instead of "using an artificial light to make her days longer", you need to do the exact opposite, her days need to be shorter this time of year!

The idea of a "Natural Light Schedule" is just that, that their schedule follows the "Natural Light" wherever the bird may be; they need to be able to actually SEE the light changes at both sunrise and sunset, and wake and go to sleep right along with those Natural "Sun" changes...

****By lengthening your CAG's days with an artificial light during the winter, you're actually not following a Natural Light Schedule, but you're doing the exact opposite and only lengthening her days, which will make her WAY MORE hormonal and broody!!!! Yes their days will be much shorter and you'll see less of them this time of year, but it's necessary if your bird is this broody/hormonal. Her sleep will be greatly increased, and her hormones will quickly shut-down...Just make sure that she sleeps in a room where she will be able to see the light changes from the sun in both the morning and the evening...This will help you tremendously with her hormonal/egg-laying issues...And ditch the artificial light, as it's only causing her more grief...

EllenD said:

Instead of "using an artificial light to make her days longer", you need to do the exact opposite, her days need to be shorter this time of year!

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its 5pm here now and pitch black outside! I dont get home for an hour so she will have to put herself to bed Its never going to happen im afraid.

The idea of a "Natural Light Schedule" is just that, that their schedule follows the "Natural Light" wherever the bird may be; they need to be able to actually SEE the light changes at both sunrise and sunset, and wake and go to sleep right along with those Natural "Sun" changes...

****By lengthening your CAG's days with an artificial light during the winter, you're actually not following a Natural Light Schedule, but you're doing the exact opposite and only lengthening her days, which will make her WAY MORE hormonal and broody!!!! Yes their days will be much shorter and you'll see less of them this time of year, but it's necessary if your bird is this broody/hormonal. Her sleep will be greatly increased, and her hormones will quickly shut-down...Just make sure that she sleeps in a room where she will be able to see the light changes from the sun in both the morning and the evening...This will help you tremendously with her hormonal/egg-laying issues...And ditch the artificial light, as it's only causing her more grief...

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She is in the kitchen which has views on 2 sides, there really is nothing else I can do on this matter, today, sunrise here is 7am and sunset was 4:30pm.

I understand, that's why I pointed that out...Just ditch the artificial light overtop of her, and keep a room light on, and then keep her up for a certain amount of time and then put her to bed, and allow her to wake up naturally at sunrise on her own, as they usually do. I'm telling you, those artificial UVB lights, or "full-spectrum" lights are No Bueno. They cause nothing but hormonal behavior, eye damage, blindness, skin damage, skin cancer, etc. Birds don't need excess UVB light in order to manufacture Vitamin D or absorb nutrients as long as their diet is well-rounded and healthy, so they typically only cause issues, and people don't realize this until it happens to their bird.