Parrot Forum Header Left  
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Congo & Timneh Greys

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:27 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Thanks: 23
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
links1979 is on a distinguished road
Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Our CAG has been through a lot. I had posted about our issues before. We took her out of a HORRIBLE filthy breeders apartment and weaned her to solid foods. Turned out she had a tapeworm from the breeders filthy conditions. Her weight steadily rose after she fledged. However we did just get her wings clipped at 4 months for safety reasons. This was at the same time that she got her last de worming dose. She has now gone from 405 to 375. She has always been an erratic eater. We really love her. She acts more like a cat as far as her affection than what you normally hear about CAGs. What does your CAG like to eat?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to links1979 For This Useful Post:
Laurasea Supporting Member (12-08-2018)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2018, 10:51 AM
Banned
Parrots:
Sunny a female B&G macaw; Japie (m) & Appie (f), both are congo african grey; All are rescues- had to leave their previous homes for 'reasons', are still in contact with them :)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: NL= the Netherlands, Europe
Thanks: 4,355
Thanked 7,772 Times in 2,755 Posts
ChristaNL is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Why did you clip the wings of a growing bird?
(I know it is a personal choice but the need that to develop their bodies- and they are not mature till they are at least 2 years old and really fullgrown even later.)
Safety reasons sounds a bit vague, sorry to say.
Opening a door takes a few minutes here because I need to secure the birds first etc. but that is no reason to clip (for me).

Anyway- if she was flying before and now can not do that any more -> she will lose lots of musclemass. She went from athlete to deskjockey.
Flyingmuscles really make up a lot of a CAG's weight.

Not burning much energy (on sports) will cut down on the apetite as well.
(A good thing, otherwise we all would have very very fat birds)

I agree on the catlike behaviour- the greys here behave like cats with wings (love to interact, but on their own terms thank-you-very-much), the macaw is more like a puppy (lick,lick, lets go crazy yes?)
They all love to cuddle though.

My CAG's are weird.
Appie (the girl) is crazy about humanfood, if you eat anything she wants it!
Japie would be just happy if the world only had pellets ...

but he loves pomegranate (Appie does not, she adores bananaas / Japie still thinks bananaas kill parrots).
And what they wil eat varies a lot.
Sometimes they copy each other, sometimes not so much: Appie likes millet, Japies does not ... untill she has been (seen) eating it, then he will have a go (usually the morning after... Appie survived, so it must be safe...?)
Just keep offering (and snacking yourself).
(after 3?4? years of offering banana Japie now sometimes will touch it with his beak and on very special occasions even lick it, so maybe in another ten years or so...who knows - bananaas may be extinct by then )
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ChristaNL For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (12-08-2018), EllenD (12-11-2018), links1979 (12-09-2018), SammyAndy (12-09-2018)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:54 PM
Laurasea's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Ta-dah 5yr (F )Turquoise cinnamon GCC, Neptune (M) blue quaker, Penny (F )rescue green quaker, Pikachu (U) lutino quaker, Cloudy and Clear(M's) parakeets, Burt The Bird (F) GCC of 17 wonderful years p
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Florida
Thanks: 19,618
Thanked 15,627 Times in 5,415 Posts
Laurasea is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

I haven't heard of tape worms before, but I know tape worms in other species are hard to get rid off, and these days there are a lot of resistance to de worming medication. There are places your veterinarian can send out a fecal sample, and they grown out the worms from the ova, specifically identify and then check for resistance to the medicine. It does coast more, but it can be done by a few places... I don't think this is weight loss from clipping wings. Giardia is tricky to diagnose, if she had other parasites I would worry about that one. I would talk to your vet again, 20 grams is a lot....if it is consistent over time, and not just a fluctuating weight as sometimes seen. Congratulations on your rescue! I hope just is a fluctuation, and she continues to thrive with you!!
__________________
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea,
Drink the wild air's salubrity:
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Laurasea For This Useful Post:
EllenD (12-11-2018), links1979 (12-09-2018)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-08-2018, 12:58 PM
charmedbyekkie's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Cairo the Ekkie!
Join Date: May 2018
Location: US/SG
Thanks: 1,830
Thanked 3,145 Times in 1,005 Posts
charmedbyekkie will become famous soon enough
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

I second the muscle mass. I noticed a huge difference when Cairo (ekkie, so not a CAG) was eating normally but still not strong enough to fly versus when he was eating normally (or even less sometimes) and flying. When he was in top form, his weight moves within 380-420g or so. Eating normally for about 3 weeks (and really pigging out this week) but not top flying form he's closer to 360-380. Those numbers freak me out, so I'm incorporating more short flights into his training sessions to build up his muscle mass again.

Then again, notice I gave you range, instead of a fixed number? Considering that they can eat 20g no problem in one sitting and that they can poo out 5g at one go, it really feels like a range, even if you weigh them at the same time each day.

The way my vet said to confirm whether at a good weigh is to feel their keel bone. If you don't know this (sorry, didn't stalk through your history on your experience), do ask your vet to show you how! I know it gives me a peace of mind.

That being said, if you are concerned, always bring her to the vet
__________________
Parront to Cairo (pronounced chai-row, or 菜肉)*!
*He grew up in a Malay-speaking family, so we have to respect his name and preferred pronunciation

@cairothedino on Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to charmedbyekkie For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (12-08-2018), EllenD (12-11-2018), Laurasea Supporting Member (12-11-2018), links1979 (12-09-2018)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:39 PM
SammyAndy's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Sammy - Jardines Parrot - Hatchday: 4.2.2014 Andy - Congo African Grey - Hatchday 6.12.2018
Join Date: Sep 2018
Thanks: 96
Thanked 293 Times in 109 Posts
SammyAndy is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

How much weight has been lost and how much did she weigh BEFORE/AFTER she started losing weight. Is she still losing weight? Are you weighing her at consistent times during the day?


I do have to second Christa's point when it comes to clipping. Obviously you cant glue the feathers back (whats done is done), but clipping at only 4 months old seems unwise, if you ask me.

If I were you I would go to the vet and when the feathers grow back NOT* clip them again.

*Obviously if there is a very specific threat to her that is eliminated or lowered significantly by having her clipped, you may need to think about the pros and cons of clipping/not clipping.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SammyAndy For This Useful Post:
EllenD (12-11-2018), links1979 (12-09-2018)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:01 PM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Thanks: 23
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
links1979 is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Thanks for all the helpful responses. She is up 10g today so from 373 to 383. I could use some advice about long term plans. We clipped becuase we had lost a bird before when someone opened a door. We can't always guarantee that a mistake won't be made with kids and general life style. I was living a constant state of stress terrified that one mistake would cause her death. I read that after they fledged it was safe to clip so we waiting a month and then had it done. It was depressing. We also are going to be having a baby soon. With everything in the mix we decided to clip. I just want to make sure she thrives
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to links1979 For This Useful Post:
noodles123 (12-09-2018)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2018, 01:42 PM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 6,495
Thanked 7,577 Times in 3,080 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

There's nothing wrong with your own personal decision to clip your bird's wings, it's just the time that you did it that is the issue...With larger parrots it takes a lot longer for them to develop both physically and psychologically than with smaller parrots, say a Conure or an IRN...Fledging and Weaning are tied-together, and if they are either "Force-Weaned", meaning a person chooses when to take away a feeding or when to reduce the amount of formula in a feeding instead of the bird making theses choices on their own by either eating less formula in a feeding or by refusing an entire feeding, OR their wings are clipped too soon, meaning either before they fully-fledge and/or fully-wean, or too soon after fully-fledging or fully-weaning, these can both cause severe psychological, behavioral, physical, and most of all neurological issues that can last for their entire lives...It's a big deal. That's why a point was made of this, and it's a hugely valid point...

Are you weighing him at the same time each day, every single day, and writing it down? You can't weigh them at different times of the day, nor sporadically, as you need to look at the entire picture and the trends within it...The best time to weigh a bird is first thing in the morning BEFORE they eat or drink anything, but AFTER they have their first morning poop, as they typically don't poop all night long, and a bird's first morning droppings can weigh 10 grams or more...So waking them up, making sure they have pooped, then taking them right to the scale, weighing them, and then writing down the date, time, and weight in a notebook is best...That way you'll be able to see the entire picture...

As far as the "tapeworm", which I have to say is extremely unusual in parrots, was this a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist that diagnosed them? And what tests did they run to diagnose them? Did they take a Fecal Culture and send it out for a laboratory to grow-out in order to rule-out a Bacterial and/or Fungal/Yeast infection? Did they do microscopy on the Fecal sample in the office while you were there, and a Gram-Stain of the Fecal Sample to also look for Bacteria, Fungi/Yeast, and Protozoa, such as Giardia, as mentioned by Laura? And did they actually see Tapeworms, or did they base the diagnosis on what looked like Tapeworm eggs?

What medication did they put him on for the Tapeworms? This is a HUGE DEAL, because there are some Anti-Parasitics that are safe and cause little to no nausea/anorexia, and then there are others that are not only extremely harsh on the bird, but can actually cause serious issues such as Kidney-Failure...That's why I asked if your Vet is a Certified Avian Vet or an "Exotics" Vet, because an "Exotics" Vet is way more likely to mis-diagnose a parasitic infection, and much more importantly they are far more likely to give a bird an Anti-Parasitic medication that is inappropriate or even harmful...This could easily cause him issues with not only his eating habits/hunger in-general, but also with weight-loss through his GI Tract...
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
Laurasea Supporting Member (12-11-2018), links1979 (12-12-2018)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2018, 10:54 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Thanks: 23
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
links1979 is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Quote: Originally Posted by EllenD View Post
There's nothing wrong with your own personal decision to clip your bird's wings, it's just the time that you did it that is the issue...With larger parrots it takes a lot longer for them to develop both physically and psychologically than with smaller parrots, say a Conure or an IRN...Fledging and Weaning are tied-together, and if they are either "Force-Weaned", meaning a person chooses when to take away a feeding or when to reduce the amount of formula in a feeding instead of the bird making theses choices on their own by either eating less formula in a feeding or by refusing an entire feeding, OR their wings are clipped too soon, meaning either before they fully-fledge and/or fully-wean, or too soon after fully-fledging or fully-weaning, these can both cause severe psychological, behavioral, physical, and most of all neurological issues that can last for their entire lives...It's a big deal. That's why a point was made of this, and it's a hugely valid point...

Are you weighing him at the same time each day, every single day, and writing it down? You can't weigh them at different times of the day, nor sporadically, as you need to look at the entire picture and the trends within it...The best time to weigh a bird is first thing in the morning BEFORE they eat or drink anything, but AFTER they have their first morning poop, as they typically don't poop all night long, and a bird's first morning droppings can weigh 10 grams or more...So waking them up, making sure they have pooped, then taking them right to the scale, weighing them, and then writing down the date, time, and weight in a notebook is best...That way you'll be able to see the entire picture...

As far as the "tapeworm", which I have to say is extremely unusual in parrots, was this a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist that diagnosed them? And what tests did they run to diagnose them? Did they take a Fecal Culture and send it out for a laboratory to grow-out in order to rule-out a Bacterial and/or Fungal/Yeast infection? Did they do microscopy on the Fecal sample in the office while you were there, and a Gram-Stain of the Fecal Sample to also look for Bacteria, Fungi/Yeast, and Protozoa, such as Giardia, as mentioned by Laura? And did they actually see Tapeworms, or did they base the diagnosis on what looked like Tapeworm eggs?

What medication did they put him on for the Tapeworms? This is a HUGE DEAL, because there are some Anti-Parasitics that are safe and cause little to no nausea/anorexia, and then there are others that are not only extremely harsh on the bird, but can actually cause serious issues such as Kidney-Failure...That's why I asked if your Vet is a Certified Avian Vet or an "Exotics" Vet, because an "Exotics" Vet is way more likely to mis-diagnose a parasitic infection, and much more importantly they are far more likely to give a bird an Anti-Parasitic medication that is inappropriate or even harmful...This could easily cause him issues with not only his eating habits/hunger in-general, but also with weight-loss through his GI Tract...


Thank you for that no she was taken to an exotics vet who does birds. I actually had one of the worms that came out of her and also had it on video coming out to show them. They didn't do a fecal test. She has had two shots of drontal. Today she is 376 again. Not dropping below that. But it is the same weight she was before she flew. What would you suggest?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to links1979 For This Useful Post:
EllenD (12-13-2018), Laurasea Supporting Member (12-13-2018)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2018, 05:49 PM
Senior Member
Parrots:
Enzo - adopted Female CAG circa 2004. A truly amazing young lady!
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: NorthWest England
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,573 Times in 686 Posts
bigfellasdad is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
Why did you clip the wings of a growing bird?
Nothing more to add apart from don't put your feelings in front of your birds, if your bird has gone through a lot of hurt why kick it when its starting to recover.

Let your bird know how much you love it, they know your emotions more than YOU do.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bigfellasdad For This Useful Post:
ChristaNL (12-13-2018), links1979 (12-12-2018)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2018, 09:44 AM
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Thanks: 23
Thanked 17 Times in 9 Posts
links1979 is on a distinguished road
Re: Losing Weight After Wing Clipping

Quote: Originally Posted by bigfellasdad View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
Why did you clip the wings of a growing bird?
Nothing more to add apart from don't put your feelings in front of your birds, if your bird has gone through a lot of hurt why kick it when its starting to recover.

Let your bird know how much you love it, they know your emotions more than YOU do.
namely fear that it would die based upon previous experience of our bird dying because someone who had a key opening the front door unannounced. Three kids, one with autism. Sure if the context you impose onto my situation is whatever situation you are in it might seem like I'm "putting my feelings above the birds."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Congo & Timneh Greys

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nanday is losing weight athenaconure Conures 6 09-12-2018 09:39 PM
13 Week old baby GW macaw losing weight chad84 Macaws 2 04-20-2016 01:15 PM
My parakeet seems to be losing weight ct92404 Budgies/Parakeets 11 03-31-2013 05:02 PM
Wing Clipping? DurHandler Macaws 18 11-27-2012 01:15 PM
Help baby B&G losing weight ButterflyAMT Questions and Answers 2 08-18-2008 10:38 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.