Beginner.. trying to breed CONGO

Hello every one,

Im a guy who has good knowledge in parrots and birds in general, but today i had a chance to buy my first pair of parrots. Two wild African grey parrots , almost in thier 7 to 8th years and thier previous owner was successful in breeding them once and he needed the money so he sold them and he showed me some pictures of them and thier babies.

Some picture for thier cage and how i add the food and the water .

Any suggestions or advices??
And how i do the light in the room i dont have any idea how they will eat in a dark room ??

Hello, and welcome. I personally wouldn't take any steps towards actual breeding until I had read TONs, established a mentor (the original owner?) and made a firm connection with an avian vet if you don't already have one.
It's such an enormously complex thing.
I'm glad you're reaching out before embarking on such a big mission.

About the vets... if you need links...
Certified Avian Vets
https://abvp.com/animal-owners/find-an-abvp-specialist/
If none are near you...
Avian Veterinarians
http://www.aav.org/search/custom.asp?id=1803
In my opinion, any of the vets listed here should be better than a regular vet.
International contacts, too.

Good luck.

First: get them to a CAV for a clean bill of health (bloodtests on all known diseases etc.) and a guestimate of their age and sexe.

Usually those stories are nonsense and the birds are gotten rid off under some pretense because there is something wrong with them.


!!! Did you get CITESpapers with them? Are they registered to you already? And do the numbers on the bands/ transponder read-outs actually match the ones on file? There is no way you can legally keep, breed or sell babies without this paperwork. It is illegal!

Second: get them at least a normal sized cage- this one is inhuman (way too small) for even one CAG let alone 2.
I know breeding parrots like they are factoriechickens is the norm in a lot of places but it is cruel.
(there are so many great CAGkeepers here, take a look at where their birds live in and more than double that for a couple)

A room with a window is more or les needed to keep their biological clocks ticking, just a lightbulb will do a crisis/ quarantainesituation.
(the water is on the floor in the last picture, that cannot be good)
Every birds needs a bit of sunlight once in a while, to make vitamin D -> that helps them absorb calcium from the food and keep their bones from breaking and makes it possible for the female to actually lay eggs and not die trying to do so.

Always check with the CAV if those levels are allright.


How about just keeping them for a year or so, make sure they are in prime physical condition before you start thinking about letting them nest & breed.
(If they are indeed a couple)
Join a breedersclub so you can do the paperwork (get registered), order and buy legbands in time etc.etc.

First, I would switch their diets from the seed mix to a wide variety of fruit and veggies. They will need it for optimal health, especially if you are planning to breed them. As others have said, that is an extremely tiny cage for a CAG. They need toys and room to flap their wings.

Frankly I'd like to discourage you from engaging in breeding practices.

Welcome, agree with previous advice!

Breeding is an awesome responsibility and not for the faint of heart. It can be an incredibly complex process, particularly if the parents are less than competent once hatched. I respectfully recommend you read this thread, written by a breeder member: http://www.parrotforums.com/breeding-raising-parrots/54987-before-i-start-breed.html

Hi Gamada, im sorry but your whole post is raising my internal alarm levels to PANIC!

You say you are very knowledgeable in parrots and birds in general, but very clearly you are not, the cage/diet indeed everything is screaming at me as being wrong.
Assuming you have paid but not received the birds? If so, please stop and pause and take the advice from above posts.

Cage, far too small for even one CAG
Diet, seeds alone, just no, the birds will be unhealthy and unhappy
Wild, HUGE WTF! These are endangered animals due to poaching, I wouldn't give a penny to anybody involved with that...
You cant work out how to change food and water, really???
Light in the room, are you going to keep them in a cupboard or something, shame, these are very intelligent animals who can stress out easily.

You cant expect two stressed, malnourished, unhappy and imprisoned animals to mate successfully do you?

Again, you say you are very knowledgeable, I say you are NOT and you should stop right now and reassess the situation honestly, it is a huge commitment to undertake

Apologies for being abrupt, but im thinking of the birds rather than you in this case.

wait wait wait wait wait

8 years old (max age) and they're wild caught?

Now I'm going to be blunt, but tough luck I'm thinking about the birds livelihoods and not your feelings so forgive me. I get other countries and cultures have different ideas about animals but well... yeah I'll stay my tongue on that subject

Sorry to say buddy but already you've broken international law. Those are illegally caught birds you've purchased. That cage looks about the right size for maybe a single Cockatiel. Not 2 African Greys and especially not a nest of baby greys!. You say you're an expert but then you don't know how to change food and water, seems like that's something an expert would know don't you think? They need to be in a room with windows, it's a requirement for all surface level creatures on this planet to have sunlight to survive, so they need to be in a different room. Have you got a single piece of documentation from CITES to do with these parrots? Have you contacted CITES to inform them you're planning on breeding and acquired the appropriate licensing? Any baby you sell you will be doing so ILLEGALLY and if any of the people you sell a baby to has to take them to a vet (which they will at somepoint) their pet will be confiscated from them and I'm fairly certain at that point you'll have some angry upset people on your doorstep.

Take on board what I'm saying or just dismiss me as a rude person. But if you go through with your plan as it is you are going to be torturing a pair of birds, slowly killing them and forcing them to pump out babies which you will be selling on illegally so you can earn a quick buck.

Just think about this more than not at all, throw your hands in the air and back as far away from that breeder as you can. Breeding is not something you will make any money out of if you want to even have a shred of kindness towards the birds you are going to be losing money breeding them, it's why most breeders are hobbyist breeders because it's why they spend their money on as a hobby

Where to start beside the fact that others have already pointed out. One being illegal caught, you won't be able to do it for profit, unless you sell on social media sites which can attract wrong attention. Plus that fact the buyer risk getting the bird confiscated from them. Legal issues aside. You have have not only the wrong side cage, but wrong size breeder box?

For a African Grey Parrot cage sizing, should be a minimum of three feet wide, Four feet high, and about three to four feet deep and that is the minimum. With small caging the nest box should be hung on the outside, while in large flights it may hang on the inside. The nest box may be a grandfather style with a floor space of about 12 inches by 12 inches, or the “L?shape boot box with the floor measuring approximately 12 inches by 24 inches. The bedding sure be a thick layer (5 inches or so) of bedding should be used, as greys do sit tight and chicks may be squished if not enough bedding is added to the box. Also a few pieces of wood can be added for the birds to chew on as they are working their nest.

This is without getting into diet they need and the 12 hours of lighting they need to breed and room temperature and humidity and need to be prepared to take over if the parents reject the babies, which then gets way more complex. Larger bird especially are hard to breed and way more costly. Reason why breeders ether ask a lot of money for babies, or do it more as a hobby and no one really doing it on a large scale. Those that are doing large scale are mostly doing smaller birds like Conure, Cockatiel and parakeet as they sell to the petlands and other pet stores around the area and way easier to breed. They do larger birds on the side, or every once in a while, but see most the breeder "flipping" buying cheap and reselling at high price waiting it out larger birds rather then breeding them. " Which is something I don't agree with, but is what they mostly do in this area".

More of a side topic below

Most the sites selling babies for pre-orders even at high prices are scams. Yes some are legit, but a lot are scams as they take your money and never ship the bird and come out with excuse after excuse to run the clock, so you don't do a chargeback and etc. Then you get the dedicated websites that sell babies cheaper with free shipping and ETC and those are always scams as same crap layout site they use over and over again. They put PayPal cart so it looks legit but link never works and then they try to get you to pay Bitcoin, or wire the money over and yes they will talk to you over the phone so you are more willing to cough up the dough. Then Parrot eggs let not get started on that topic, straight to the point. No breeder going to sell you a fertilized parrot eggs, they could just hatch and make way more money.

Hello everyone and really thank you for all the comments. .. im sorry i wasn't clear on all the details,,

I got them from a breader and they have thier certificate with them with thier band numbers on them.

Im breading them in my family farm but when i placed them outside in a large cage they start to fight and make a lote of noise so i placed them in a room inside the houseand they stopped everything and started to relax and the male start feeding the female thats the reason i placed them in this cage.
And i never cared about the cage because my birds are on stands all the time.
I have 2 amazon one yellow crowned Amazon and blue fronted amazon i have blue and gold macaw and i raised thre African grey parrot in the past 6 years and they are still with me. My only reson that i asked because i never delt with an old, i usually get small babies and raising them.
I was wondering how to feed them without scare them. So what i did i got a camera system so i can see when i should fill the water and the food.

Ass for the water its hangings on the cage the food in big flat dishes on the floor...

I appreciate all the replys and i will consider them of course.

I contacted the vets near me they said if its a wild cought then its hard for them to check it so i got some vitamins and start to give them mixed powder with the water. And i change thier diet to fruits and seeds.

The is a big window in the room but i placed the cage to be against it so it will not annoy them. Is it ok or i need to install a special light so they start to feel comfortable.

Any other advice.

I GOT IT I WIL REPLACE THIER CAGE :51:

I put them at the beginning in the big glassy room in the picture flying without a cage and i couldn't control them or make them relaxe. They start fighting together. But after i placed them in this cage they start feeding each other. any additional advice??? I will try to get a larger cage soon

there's some inconsistencies in your story now and I'm a bit confused?

They're wild caught and only 8 years old but they have closed bands and cites papers? They aren't wild caught if they have closed bands and hatch certificates (a requirement of CITES) also are these 2 siblings? If so you don't want them breeding as their young will be inbred. Also they're 8 years old but have been with a previous breeder? CAG's start breeding about 6 or 7 normally so why would a breeder offload a pair of birds who are at prime age to start making money? I think you've been had I'm afraid to say.

Honestly, you need to STOP right now. You're not prepared for breeding, They are fighting each other meaning they are not going to breed together, much the opposite they're likely to kill each other. They're probably not fighting in the small cage because they can barely move around. they should be separated right now, you need to take a step back, read the breeding section on here, read ALL of it and really take on board all the stuff you need to with breeding. Also with the vet you spoke to make sure they are a CERTIFIED AVIAN VET (CAV) because an "exotics" or standard vet know nothing about birds and will provide no real help if there is an issue.

Honestly I may sound harsh but I'm thinking of those 2 CAGs who didn't ask for any of this. Breeding is not easy nor is it exactly fun. If it was everyone would do it and parrots would cost nothing

Guys, is it possible that by "wild" he means not hand tame?


If I'm not wrong the person isn't a native English speaker (based off grammar and the Arabic writing in one of the pictures).

The fighting alone is likely the reason the last breeder off loaded them. If male to aggressive then you can not pair them as they can end up killing, or seriously hurting each other. He may have fooled you and they are not a mated pair?

You need a full full spectrum lighting for 10 to 12 hours a day can use a timer to turn on and off light, as far as lighting goes for UVA, UVB is questionable and won't count on lighting and just need to give them vitamin supplements and change in diet.

It is the least of your problems. As others stated, strange a breeder would off load and sell birds that can turn a profit? Something not right and birds could be older then he claimed, or not even a mated pair, or male is to aggressive? Which means they can not be allowed in the same cage. So they are not going to breed and could hurt and kill each other.

Please don’t breed more Birds. There is enough unwanted and neglected animals in this world.

Being of a different nationality,communication can be very challenging! To say the least "WE", knowing the English language,can make out what an "english speaking" person is trying to convey to us fairly easily,even if grammer is not proper. This poster could very well be telling things correctly,but because of the wording,we read into what he is trying to say to us,as something completely different!
I know if I went to a foreign country or lived in a foreign country for some time,and was able to speak their native tongue,I'd prolly say things that they'd take totally different that I was trying to get across!
It's just like typing vs speaking. Some one could be trying to say something in a certain way typing,and someone reading it,could totally take what he/she is trying to say....in a completely different context.


Jim

Alright, first of all STOP PUTTING VITAMINS OR ANYTHING ELSE IN THEIR WATER!!! They don't need any type of Vitamin supplements unless they have blood-work done and they are diagnosed with a deficiency of some kind, otherwise giving them a Vitamin supplement of any kind can actually do way more harm than good, and all they are going to do is pass the excess Vitamins you're giving them out of their bodies in their Urates (the water-soluble vitamins in the supplement) and the fat-soluble vitamins will only accumulate in their fat-cells because they can't use them, and then they develop Vitamin-Toxicity and Poisoning...And you cannot and should not EVER put ANYTHING at all in their drinking water, not any medications, not Vitamins or any other supplements, etc., because it immediately contaminates their water and bacteria and fungi/yeast starts growing immediately, and usually they just end-up developing multiple Bacterial infections throughout their Gastrointestinal Tracts...So STOP giving them any kind of Vitamins. They don't need them and you're only going to end up with sick birds that will need Avian Vet care, and because they are wild-caught CAG's no Avian Vet will see them. All you need to provide them with is a large Avian Mineral-Block and a Cuttlebone so that they are getting ample Calcium, Phosphorous, and Vitamin D. That's it, no "multi-Vitamin" supplements at all, and NEVER anything in their drkinking water!!!

Now that we have that out of the way....Have you ever actually bred parrots before? Or a better question is have you ever actually pulled just-hatched babies that are between 2-3 weeks old from the nest-box and hand-raised/hand-fed them before? Because if not, these two wild CAG's are not the place to start, that's for sure...Chances are that even if you do get them to breed by some miracle they are going to be horrible parents, and you'll be forced to remove any babies from them, have to house them in a proper Brooder (do you have a Brooder?), and have to hand-raise them on your own from very young. And if you have no experience in doing that, and if you don't have the proper equipment to do so like a Brooder to house them in (they'll die of fungal/yeast infections if not kept at the proper ambient-temperature range according to their feather-development/growth), a proper digital cooking/candy thermometer with a metal-probe to ensure that the hand-feeding formula is ALWAYS between 104 and 110 degrees F at all times while they are being fed (again, they'll die of fungal/yeast infection if their formula is even a degree or two cooler than 104 degrees F, and if any hotter than 110 degrees F you'll burn their crops)...It's just not something to start doing with a pair of wild-caught Greys that have a propensity for fighting if conditions are not just so...

And on that subject, it doesn't matter where you got them, whether they were a "breeder" or not, I would be willing to be everything I own that this pair of Greys have NEVER had a successful clutch of babies, they probably haven't even ever bred before based on the behaviors you're describing. This is nothing new, breeders buy a young pair of wild-caught parrots in hopes of them breeding, they keep them until their optimal-age to start breeding (WHICH FOR CAG'S IS ABOUT 7-8 YEARS OLD BY THE WAY), and if by then they don't show ANY SIGN of being a successful breeding-pair of birds, they dump them, selling them to someone as a "Proven-Pair" of parrots who have successfully bred and raised babies before when in-fact they haven't even ever started to breed...7-8 years-old is the optimal age to START breeding a pair of African-Greys, so if this breeder told you that they've already bred and raised a single clutch of babies, they most-likely lied to you, and they dumped them on you because they are well aware that they are not going to be a successful breeding pair of Greys...Sorry, but I'd rather tell you the truth than lie to you like this breeder did. We've seen this time after time after time, and the bottom-line is that there is absolutely no way to force them to breed, and if they have already shown a propensity to physically-fight with each other, then they are not going to be a successful breeding-pair of birds...It's just the truth.

In-regards to those cages you have inside of your home, they aren't large enough to keep little Budgies in, and if you even attempt to keep them inside of those cages they are never going to breed successfully; even a proven-pair of birds who have already bred and raised multiple clutches of babies won't EVER start to breed if their environment is not at least "adequate", and usually it needs to be "optimal" for a wild-caught pair of parrots to breed in-captivity,, so you've got multiple issues going on here...And if they are a wild-caught pair of African Greys, they are certainly not going to be happy living inside of your home, they would be happiest inside of a large, outdoor Aviary LIVING TOGETHER! So if this pair of wild-caught Greys were physically-fighting while LIVING TOGETHER inside of a large, outdoor Aviary, what does that tell you? They certainly cannot live TOGETHER inside one of those cages you have inside your house, and if you don't house a "breeding-pair" of parrots together, they aren't going to remain bonded (if they're bonded in the first place), and they certainly aren't going to breed...And again, if they were fighting while living together inside of a large cage/Aviary outside, where they should feel most-comfortable, then they aren't a breeding-pair, nor are they going to become one...

As far as their diet goes, they need to be eating a daily "staple" food, which needs to be either an Avian Pellet, which is best, especially for a breeding female, or a seed-mix, but it must be a low-fat, high-protein seed-mix that contains NO SUNFLOWER SEEDS AT ALL, NO NUTS AT ALL, AND NO DRIED CORN AT ALL!!! Those 3 ingredients are nothing but fat, and will result in enlarged-Livers in both birds, and an enlarged, fatty-liver in a female will prevent successful laying of fertile eggs. And giving them an artificial Vitamin Supplement is not going to do a thing to help the problem, as most of the water-soluble vitamins in the supplement will just pass out of their bodies without ever being absorbed, and the fat-soluble vitamins in the mix will just be stored in their fat-cells, including the ones in their livers, and eventually cause vitamin-toxicity diseases. They must get their daily-nutrition, including their protein, vitamins, minerals, amino-acids, etc. FROM THE FOOD THAT THEY EAT, NOT FROM A SUPPLEMENT. So if the seed-mix that you're feeding them as their staple-diet each day contains ANY Sunflower-Seeds, Nuts, or Dried Corn, then you need to find a new parrot seed-mix that doesn't contain any of these things, or you need to transition them over from the seed-mix to a daily-staple food of an Avian Pellet. And either way you need to give them a large portion of fresh Veggies and Dark, Leafy Greens (NO WATERY LETTUCES AT ALL, THEY CONTAIN NOTHING BUT WATER), including Mustard Greens, Collard Greens, Turnip Greens, Dandelion Greens, Arugula/Rocket, Watercress, Bok Choy, Chard, etc. And fresh Fruit should only be an occasional treat and IS NOT interchangeable with the fresh Veggies and Dark, Leafy Greens, because ALL FRUIT is full of natural SUGAR which is just turned into FAT and stored in their livers just like the fat from the Sunflower Seeds, Nuts, and Dried Corn is...The only one of the bunch they should get at all are the Nuts, BUT ONLY AS OCCASIONAL TREATS AND NOT AS THEIR ACTUAL FOOD!!! And NO PEANUTS!!! They contain little nutrition and are extremely high in fat, and also carry deadly molds and fungi...Almonds, Filberts/Hazelnuts, Brazil Nuts, Walnuts, etc. Just no Peanuts at all, and all Nuts are just occasional treats just like the fresh Fruit is...And STOP THE VITAMIN SUPPLEMENT UNLESS YOU GET BLOOD-WORK DONE AND ONE OF THEM IS SUFFERING FROM A SPECIFIC VITAMIN DEFICIENCY, in which case you only give them the Vitamin that they are lacking, and you give it to them by either an injection or on their food, NEVER IN THEIR WATER!!!

I think you've got a pair of wild-caught CAG's that is not a breeding-pair, has never been a breeding-pair, and their "breeder' most-likely lied to you about them having produced a clutch of babies before...They can show you all the photos in the world of baby Greys, but this pair of Greys does not at all sound like any successful breeding-pair of birds I've ever seen. Like I said above, a wild-caught, non-tame breeding-pair of Greys should be happiest living OUTDOORS, and living TOGETHER in a large Aviary that is outdoors. That's the most-successful set-up for breeding a wild-caught, non-tame pair of CAG's, is them being housed together outside in a very large Aviary...But this pair was fighting so much when housed together outside in a large Aviary that you actually had to move them indoors and keep them living separately. That should tell you all you need to know about whether or not they are a successful or even a bonded pair of Greys...

I'm sorry that this happened to you, it's terrible for "breeders" to do this to unsuspecting people, because now you've got two wild-caught, non-tame Congo African Greys who fight whenever they are put together inside of the same cage outside, which is where they should be most-happy and content, and where most successful, wild-caught breeding-pairs flourish and breed healthy clutches of babies, especially a breeding-pair of CAG's that are around 7-8 years-old, that's the perfect and most-optimal time for them to start breeding successfully in that outdoor environment.

Hey, what happened to Nora, your grey you got 3 years ago?

Flboy said:

Hey, what happened to Nora, your grey you got 3 years ago?

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware that the OP had any prior CAG breeding experience, as the title of the thread was "Beginner"...If there is a history of prior unsuccessful breeding of wild-caught CAG's, then this is very bad situation all the way around...Well, it's already very bad considering that the OP was pretty-obviously lied to by the breeder who sold him these 2 new CAG's...Just a bad situation all the way around.

GUYS!!

We can't be sure the birds are wild caught! OP's mother-tongue obviously isnt English, so he may very well just mean "NOT TAME" when we wrote "wild".