Extremely fearful Grey after multiple vet visits, looking for advice

BCook67

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Mar 9, 2017
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Hello. My wife and I adopted a Congo Grey in July 2019, who seemed very happy and well adjusted upon bringing him home. He displayed a bit of nervous behavior at times, mostly alternating feet nail chewing, but otherwise extremely interactive, vocal and confident. Lots of whistles, emulating household noises and trying to talk. He bonded quickly to my wife and loved to engage and get scratches, as well as looking out the window and joining us around the house. We are experienced parrot owners, and have familiarity with "normal" behavior........other than the slight nervousness (at least as compared to our other grey), completely normal and happy.

Within two months of bringing him home he began showing signs of illness, long story short resulting in ~15 visits to the vet over the course of 6 months. Lots of nasal flushing, two extended hospitalizations, and probing/prodding to eventually find that he was born with genetic defects compromising both his feet and nasal passage. Over the course of the vet visits he has become extremely phobic of hands and anything that looks like a towel/blanket, and no longer engages with my wife and I. He sits quietly and fearfully in his cage hidden behind his toys, screaming and thrashing violently if either of us walk anywhere near his cage. It is an extremely delicate process just to give him fresh water and food each day. He previously stepped-up willingly any chance he got to leave his cage, including climbing to the top and calling to join my wife and I, but now any time we ask him to "step up" he immediately takes a defensive position and begins screaming. He used to love going to his tree in the living room or basement to play, and now when we manage to get him there he nervously chews his nails and quivers his wings until he is returned to his cage, screaming fearfully both directions.

The major problem is trying to clean his cage, which of course requires his removal. Any time we remove him from the cage he will jump and has lost multiple feathers thrashing around once he hits the floor. If we try to gently hold his feet to prevent jumping it makes the situation even worse. Even moving at a snails pace doesn't work. Simply put there is NO way to remove him from his cage without serious drama; we have tried everything.

We are now at a crossroads where we don't know what to do. One option is to leave him in his cage all day, gently trying to talk to him from a distance and hoping that eventually he shows a sign that he wants to join us............but with this we take the risk that he becomes even more distant and phobic, possibly leading to other behavioral problems. Another option is try to continue getting him out of his cage so that we can engage him and ensure he doesn't get bored, but with the risk that he is being over-stress and/or will hurt himself jumping and thrashing. It's a nightmare situation. We welcome any advice, and thank you in advance.
 

bigfellasdad

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Sep 21, 2017
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Enzo - adopted Female CAG circa 2004. A truly amazing young lady!
Oh no, sounds terrible... enzo is only scared of brushes and growls and attacks them and that causes issues itself.
What is her health like now? If he needs the vet then that's the priority I'd say. However, it seems like the little man has lost trust and if that's the case you need to step back the same as he has. Calming environment, removing any thing that causes stress. Talk to him at a distance that ge can handle, reassure him. If enzo gets agitated I only need to say 'its ok love' a few times and she relaxes, i say the same thing everytime she needs reassuring.
You need to regain trust basically and with a frightened animal I think that going to take time and patience and a calm environment.

I wish you guys all the luck
 

Cycletim

Member
Mar 22, 2020
114
16
Ventura, California
Parrots
Jasper Congo African Grey,
Grover Red bellied parrot RIP 10/20,
Red bellied parrot Rheya
Our new to us 18 year old grey does similar nervous actions as you describe. . He's a very happy bird until the evening. He doesn't scream though. I have been reading the parrot wizard book and taking advice from these forums. A mix of target training (short sessions) and going with everything at his pace has been helping. Very slowly. His nervous times are shorter in duration and a little less intense when they come on. He has plucked some down feathers off his chest in the process. Im hoping eventually it will slow down when he adjusts to his new forever family. In the parrot wizard book the author wrote something that stuck with me. Paprahrasing here "these birds live a long time and time you spend working with them will be short in relationship to the rest of their lives and thats what makes it so valuable" I hope your family earns its bond back.
 

Scott

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Aug 21, 2010
32,673
9,792
San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Parrots
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.

noodles123

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2018
8,145
472
Parrots
Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
Hello. My wife and I adopted a Congo Grey in July 2019, who seemed very happy and well adjusted upon bringing him home. He displayed a bit of nervous behavior at times, mostly alternating feet nail chewing, but otherwise extremely interactive, vocal and confident. Lots of whistles, emulating household noises and trying to talk. He bonded quickly to my wife and loved to engage and get scratches, as well as looking out the window and joining us around the house. We are experienced parrot owners, and have familiarity with "normal" behavior........other than the slight nervousness (at least as compared to our other grey), completely normal and happy.

Within two months of bringing him home he began showing signs of illness, long story short resulting in ~15 visits to the vet over the course of 6 months. Lots of nasal flushing, two extended hospitalizations, and probing/prodding to eventually find that he was born with genetic defects compromising both his feet and nasal passage. Over the course of the vet visits he has become extremely phobic of hands and anything that looks like a towel/blanket, and no longer engages with my wife and I. He sits quietly and fearfully in his cage hidden behind his toys, screaming and thrashing violently if either of us walk anywhere near his cage. It is an extremely delicate process just to give him fresh water and food each day. He previously stepped-up willingly any chance he got to leave his cage, including climbing to the top and calling to join my wife and I, but now any time we ask him to "step up" he immediately takes a defensive position and begins screaming. He used to love going to his tree in the living room or basement to play, and now when we manage to get him there he nervously chews his nails and quivers his wings until he is returned to his cage, screaming fearfully both directions.

The major problem is trying to clean his cage, which of course requires his removal. Any time we remove him from the cage he will jump and has lost multiple feathers thrashing around once he hits the floor. If we try to gently hold his feet to prevent jumping it makes the situation even worse. Even moving at a snails pace doesn't work. Simply put there is NO way to remove him from his cage without serious drama; we have tried everything.

We are now at a crossroads where we don't know what to do. One option is to leave him in his cage all day, gently trying to talk to him from a distance and hoping that eventually he shows a sign that he wants to join us............but with this we take the risk that he becomes even more distant and phobic, possibly leading to other behavioral problems. Another option is try to continue getting him out of his cage so that we can engage him and ensure he doesn't get bored, but with the risk that he is being over-stress and/or will hurt himself jumping and thrashing. It's a nightmare situation. We welcome any advice, and thank you in advance.

I would recommend F10 SC (avian safe, veterinary-grade disinfectant) in the yellow/clear variety in a dilution ratio of 2ml per 17 oz of water (doesn't require rinsing). If you have this, plus a removable base-tray/grate, you can clean with your bird in the cage, as long as you do not spray the bird and allow the solution to dry before the bird come in contact with it--you can wipe it dry, but you should let it sit for about 5-10 minutes before doing so.

It doesn't smell very strong, but up close, it kind of reminds me of the smell a lime gets when starting to spoil, but it's faint (doesn't smell like lemons or limes in the way you would think of a cleaner smelling ...but the way the skin of citrus fruit smells when it starts to mold----weird...I know lol (sounds WAY worse than it is...) .but not very smelly AT ALL..and DEFINITELY not noticeable unless you are right next to it, and even then, it's much weaker smelling than any standard cleaner (and so much safer).

DISCLAIMER-- your bird has a special condition, so you may wish to consult with a vet first, but in a semi-healthy parrot, I have had no issues...Noodles even licked it once (much to my dismay) and was totally fine (although terrifying and NOT RECOMMENDED).
For years, I have used it to clean with my bird nearby and while it is not ideal, it is not harmful thus far (studies also confirm that it can be used in close proximity so long as dilution is adequate)--- it is a very safe product in proper dilutions and is used to treat respiratory ailments in birds via nebulizers (by certified specialists). If I were you, I would clean the dirtiest areas and try to see if he will climb onto the top of his cage at some point so that you can the rest. Build that trust back in the meantime...

In general, I'd also just suggest leaving his door open (if it can be done safely and as long as you gen generally keep an eye on him) in hopes that he may start to come out. If he does, don't run over...just keep doing your thing, quietly and calmly. It will take time to build the trust back.
 
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BCook67

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Mar 9, 2017
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Thank you everyone for the responses so far, they have been extremely helpful. We will definitely try all of the advice provided so far, and welcome any additional ideas.



The big question we still have is would it be better to leave him in his cage, speaking to him and spending time in that room as much as possible, with the goal of keeping his stress at a minimum? Or would it be better to "force" him to leave his cage at least once a day to ensure he is getting enrichment and not slipping further down the pit of isolation and possibly chance neglect behaviors. I know there isn't a perfect answer here, but we are definitely conflicted between trying to keep engagement with him and trying to minimize his stress. Thank you for any additional advice!
 

noodles123

Well-known member
Jul 11, 2018
8,145
472
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
have you tried leaving the door open and putting snacks on top (non-scary ones that he likes) and leaving them there while you go about your routine/subtly supervise from 10+ feet away from him throughout the day (for multiple days)?
 

bigfellasdad

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Sep 21, 2017
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Enzo - adopted Female CAG circa 2004. A truly amazing young lady!
NEVER force him out of his home, NEVER.

Believe me, he will come out when he is good and ready, this is all bonding and trust issues at the moment. Take it at his pace, try not to go one step over the line as it may make him take 2 steps back. Just sitting with him, reading him the newspaper or simply chatting to him about the weather etc will really help. When he is happy at the first steps and no sign of fear, take another little step.
Jed, who I have just spoken about on another thread, was forced out of his cage by his previous owners (A pair of big hands going into his cage, Jed screaming and panicking would flap but couldn't get away so the hands would grab him from the floor), when I asked if I could have him to give him a better life, it took me along time to get his trust, and even then it wasn't a total bond more of an appreciation. To be honest, I enjoyed the calm it brought to my life when I was trying to get his trust...… he never learned to spot fearing hands :(

One other thing ive done from the off, ive always greeted Enzo/Jed immediately I come in to the house, I think that helped. Also try a little single treat when you see him..... good things happen when he sees you etc.
 

SailBoat

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Jul 10, 2015
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Western, Michigan
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DYH Amazon
We work exclusively with older, ill and commonly abused Amazons. They come to us with no want to every trust another Human. Our first six plus months are spent with extensive Vet visits and stuffing medication into them. When their medical issues settle, we start in a like deep dark hole in constructing a relationship and then trust! Our Amazons have all, with time developed a strong relationship and their loving trust of us!

It's called Starting Over from the First Day with a Parrot that has no want to be around you! It only takes a want too!!! Point being, you can gain it all back, but it will take time and there will be set-backs!

As my Good Friend Noddles' stated: Open the door and leave it open! The treats on the top of the cage is a great additional idea!

Now, set a chair near your Parrots cage, you may have to move it a bit away from the cage so that your Parrot is comfortable with wear you are and move it closer as comfort allows. Now Read aloud to your Parrot. You can read anything you like, but read! Both of you... The goal is to redevelop both of your relationship with your Parrot. With time, you will note your Parrot moving a bit closer to you. Its all about some steps.

- Parrots have no Natural Reason to Trust Humans, we must work every day to provide them reason to trust us.
- Only good things Happen when Humans are around is a must when recovering Trust!
- Change Your Vantage Point!
It is never the fault of the Parrot!
It is always the fault of the Human!
By simply changing your vantage point, you will quick see were you need to change and more quickly redevelop your Parrots Trust in you!

Is it Worth It!!! Yes,!!! When you first see that smallest moment of Trusting You Again! Your Heart will light Up!!!

The joy will build from there! Been there, done that! It is so worth it!!!
 
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bigfellasdad

New member
Sep 21, 2017
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Enzo - adopted Female CAG circa 2004. A truly amazing young lady!
Spot on Sailboat, do you do this for a living, If so I envy you!

But....
It is never the fault of the Parrot!
It is always the fault of the Human!

This is only until the trust/bond is in place, after that, i'm not so sure, but they bring the happiness so i dont mind :)
 

SailBoat

Supporting Member
Jul 10, 2015
17,666
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Western, Michigan
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DYH Amazon
Spot on Sailboat, do you do this for a living, If so I envy you!

But....
It is never the fault of the Parrot!
It is always the fault of the Human!

This is only until the trust/bond is in place, after that, i'm not so sure, but they bring the happiness so i dont mind :)

No, it's not for a living, when one sums just the medical costs for a single year, the costs are beyond belief. We only accept a single Amazon at a time with hope that one will live as long as we will. Sadly, that has yet to happen. The heartache of what we do is offset by experiencing they're Love...

The change of Vantage Point is a life long thing... You will be very surprised at how useful this tool is in a wide range of relationships...
 

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