Scared silly, how do we help him get un-scared?

Squeekmouse

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Hi all!

So we've had Trigger for a year and half or so now. Next month Trigger will turn 2 years old, my how time flies!He's happy and healthy, he's an amazingly good talker, crazy-smart, knows lots of tricks, and he's bonded well to both me and my husband.

We've heard that it's important to introduce new things to an African Grey regularly, like something new every day, in order to keep them from becoming phobic and neurotic. We tried to do that for a while, but we got complacent. He seemed to handle things well and wasn't particularly fearful of things.

Alas... things have changed. At first, he'd get scared of a new toy if we introduced it too quickly. We had to leave it nearby for a while and gradually move it closer and into place over a few days. Some toys he didn't get scared of and didn't have to go through that. Sometimes he helped if he saw Yoda play with it and that let him know it was safe (and fun!) for him to play with. But over time, it's gotten worse.

Here's a funny example. Last summer I gave him a chunk of corn on the cob in his dinner. He freaked when we put his dish before him because of the big, strange yellow thing in there. Even though he's been happily, and greedily eating corn OFF the cob all his life and it's his favorite thing, he was scared to see it in this large shape. So we took it out of his bowl and placed it on the far side of his playstand, letting him get used to his presence and letting him see Yoda eating his chunk. It didn't take too long, he devoured it by the time dinner was done. Tonight, I gave him a chunk of corn for the first time this year. Silly me, I forgot he was scared of it last time, so I just put it in his dish and we served it to him. At first it was all fine. He reached right in and grabbed it in his foot, munching on it happily for a few minutes. Then all of a sudden he flings the chunk of corn into the air and goes flying around the room crying out in fear, and refused to go anywhere NEAR his playstand. It took us a few minutes to figure out, he had suddenly remembered he was afraid of corn on the cob, while he was eating it. Seriously.

Meanwhile, a week ago we got him a new perch. He's been afraid of it since day 1. We've left it in the living room, nearby but not too close. Hoping he'll gradually stop being scared. So far, not much improvement.

So how do we help him get used to new things? Do we move them closer more quickly? Introduce more things even when he's still trying to get over the last new thing? Any advice, tips, do's and don'ts would be much appreciated!
 

fiddlejen

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he had suddenly remembered he was afraid of corn on the cob, while he was eating it. Seriously.

I don't have any suggestions --but-- I can so much picture this!; you have just given me a nice laugh. :)
 

wrench13

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Besides being sort of funny, it sort of gives one an insite to the mind of greys. We know they are incredibly smart creatures, one of the smartest in the animal kingdom, at least by current understanding. But they are also flock birds. I think they are very much influenced by what they observe and then process in their minds. That could be why Trigger rapidly accepts new foods when he sees Yoda eating them. Letting him see that and maybe you eating the same might make his acceptance an easier thing. After all, you are a part of his 'flock' now. Same might be true of new toys - he waits to see if the new toy is first of all not harming Yoda or you, and then sees that you both are enjoying it. I think that Amazons, the phylum I am most familiar with, being not so much a flock bird, accept new things more readily, at least in my experience. Yeah, Salty will sometimes shy away from a new toy or perch, but if I play with it and make all sorts of pleasurable sounds, he shows much less hesitation. Dosen't work 100% of the time ( he resists a new sleeping perch to this day), but as I add new tricks to his repetoir, he sees new things pretty often and it takes a time or 2 ntil we can progress to the actual teaching of the trick.

That flock behavior of greys might be one reason for their high intelligence. If they only observed and then copied without reflection or analysis, a detrimental flock behavior in the wild might just wipe out a whole flock. A few individuals eating poisonous food or drinking from a tainted water source could kill off the whole flock if they copied mindlessly. These are just my reflections on this, no evidence is presented.

If you keep in mind that flock behavior I think you might have a better chance of understanding Triggers ways. If he freaks out about a food he hasn;t seen in awhile oerhaps seeing Yoda or you again enjoying it would let him satisfy himself that yeah he was afraid of it in the past but, look now, my flock is eating it with no bad things happening.

Greys certainly are in their own niche, being from Africa, the cradle of so much of life. It would be interesting to find out how long they have been in their current form vs other parrots around the world. If evoluton has decided eons ago that yep African Grey Parrots have evolved pretty much perfectly to suit their environment, after perfecting their flock behavior and their so very intelligent minds.

Unanswered questions to be sure.
 
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Squeekmouse

Squeekmouse

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I don't have any suggestions --but-- I can so much picture this!; you have just given me a nice laugh. :)

It really was funny. We had no idea why he was suddenly panicking, I actually said as a joke "Maybe he just remembered he is afraid of corn?" and it turned out to be true. Silly bird!! The next funny thing is that we had to finally put him in his cage to finish dinner because he was too freaked out to even watch us eat corn. He chilled out in his cage even though we had the corn in his food dish hoping he would get used to it, and just kept as far away from it as he could, munching from his pellet bowl instead. I took pity on him and took the corn out of his dish, but as I was walking away with the corn, he started following me and reaching for the corn. So I offered it to him and he greedily accepted the corn cob, devouring it to a shredded pulp. :confused::confused::confused:

Thanks so much for the advice Al! We'll try that.

We're wondering if we should try putting his new perch next to his cage while he is in there. He does seem to feel safer in there, maybe that will help him get used to the new perch? We're just worried that would traumatize him if he can't flee from the big scary monster-perch. Perhaps if we (and Yoda) were all there with the perch having a good ol' time he would realize what a silly ninny he is being?
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Have you read the insightful primer "CAG 101?" http://www.parrotforums.com/congo-timneh-greys/59366-cag-101-a.html

I've had several TAGs over the years with one remaining. They are apparently a bit less skittish than CAGs, but one must be slow and deliberate with change. I don't change anything in his cage without forethought and acting piecemeal. Any new toy or perch is placed nearby for several days before modification. His diet is much the same since birth (in my home) so no surprises. The occasional addition or subtraction taken in stride.
 

noodles123

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I would try introducing fewer things (or have an enemy of yours do it when you aren't around lol). I totally get why you did it, but it could have been damaging trust if you are associated with stress etc--it may also be making the world outside of his cage seem all the more unpredictable and frightening. Maybe just see if you can build a relationship before messing with anything new for a few months, because it doesn't sound like these introductions are making him any less uptight about the changes, and it also seems to be harming your ability to bond.

Does he come out of his cage and just hang out (without freaking out/flying)?

Noodles used to be VERY skittish about new stuff (less now, but still easily alarmed by new things in certain situation) BUT I had to put objects like 10-15 feet away from her cage originally and move them about a foot closer every 3 days or so...It took a long time...Then I would just leave them like 4 feet from her cage for many more days...until moving them even closer but not putting them in or forcing the interaction with them. Modeling use of these objects can also help if it is done from a far--- I pretended to enjoy the unfamiliar objects from a distance so that she could see but so that she didn't feel threatened.

She's not nearly as bad now, but still will lose her mind over certain things...like an unfamiliar chair being moved into the room...or a random baby gate... toys she seems to finally understand, but she will still avoid them initially and stand as far from them as possible...especially if they look unique...and especially if they are large and made of plastic

Also hates Manzanita branches with multiple extensions---(forked ones) unless she has a ton of time to get used to them.
 
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bigfellasdad

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Enzo is afraid of vacuum cleaners and brushes, which unfortunately are things used daily with a parrot! With the brush i hold the hanlde with both hands and leave showing an inch or two of the handle and bring the brush to her, she tentatively says hello to it parrot style and over time she has gotten a little less fearful of it. I still do this for the last 3ys and she is still not 100% fine with them.
 

texsize

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My Bella is very much scared of new things.
Love the corn on the cob story.

Bringing in a box that has been delivered can freak her out.
My wife carried a rake from the back yard inside the house to the garage door.
Bella saw it a screeched bloody murder. When things like that get moved through the house we have to cover her up so she does not get upset.

I will say since she has entered puberty she has gotten a bit better. If she is with me (on shoulder) she is better at staying calm when I pick up a unfamiliar object.
 

fiddlejen

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Sooo maybe I do have a suggestion after all.

My little birds, all three of them, although mostly Not afraid of objects etc, DO startle easily. (One of the reasons for a Sunny's multiplicity of broken-blood-feather vet-visits.) Anytime I am ever about to do something that I know can be noisy, such as crumpling a bottle or, Especially, turning on the vacuum cleaner - but also many other things of pick-up or put-down ---

I say, "I'm gonna make a Noise! I'mgonna make a Noise! I'm GONNA (starting vacuum)make A NOISE!!

As long as I do that, they doN't get startled or afraid.

I also do something similar if I'm gonna bring a very unfamiliar object near.

Also I move their cages around several times daily (to get at the curtains, sweep the floor, etc), and I sing my version of the beginning of the Caisson Song: "Rolling rolling rolling, keep them cages rolling.."

So anyway I think you're already doing this sort of cuing already, and mine are mostly Very tolerant of cage- and room-decor changes anyway. My Jefferson-budgie will panic, but not over the food-bowl contents. (He'll just draw Calliope's attention, and she removes all non-standard contents to the cage-floor.) But who, knows perhaps there's a good "This Object Is Not Scary" song you could invent for him? :)
 

noodles123

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Sooo maybe I do have a suggestion after all.

My little birds, all three of them, although mostly Not afraid of objects etc, DO startle easily. (One of the reasons for a Sunny's multiplicity of broken-blood-feather vet-visits.) Anytime I am ever about to do something that I know can be noisy, such as crumpling a bottle or, Especially, turning on the vacuum cleaner - but also many other things of pick-up or put-down ---

I say, "I'm gonna make a Noise! I'mgonna make a Noise! I'm GONNA (starting vacuum)make A NOISE!!

As long as I do that, they doN't get startled or afraid.

I also do something similar if I'm gonna bring a very unfamiliar object near.

Also I move their cages around several times daily (to get at the curtains, sweep the floor, etc), and I sing my version of the beginning of the Caisson Song: "Rolling rolling rolling, keep them cages rolling.."

So anyway I think you're already doing this sort of cuing already, and mine are mostly Very tolerant of cage- and room-decor changes anyway. My Jefferson-budgie will panic, but not over the food-bowl contents. (He'll just draw Calliope's attention, and she removes all non-standard contents to the cage-floor.) But who, knows perhaps there's a good "This Object Is Not Scary" song you could invent for him? :)

I do that with loud objects and it totally works-- I say "boom!" in a loud happy voice whenever I drop something too LOL!


but--The silent objects are the tricky ones for me lol!
 
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Squeekmouse

Squeekmouse

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I would try introducing fewer things (or have an enemy of yours do it when you aren't around lol). I totally get why you did it, but it could have been damaging trust if you are associated with stress etc--it may also be making the world outside of his cage seem all the more unpredictable and frightening. Maybe just see if you can build a relationship before messing with anything new for a few months, because it doesn't sound like these introductions are making him any less uptight about the changes, and it also seems to be harming your ability to bond.

Does he come out of his cage and just hang out (without freaking out/flying)?

I think you misunderstand, we don't seem to have any trouble bonding and he comes out of his cage frequently and without any troubles at all. My husband does regular clicker and target and trick training with him and so they've developed a very nice relationship. I do a little training, but I'm his favorite person anyway so all I have to do is let him hang out near me and look at him and he's happy. :)

Noodles used to be VERY skittish about new stuff (less now, but still easily alarmed by new things in certain situation) BUT I had to put objects like 10-15 feet away from her cage originally and move them about a foot closer every 3 days or so...It took a long time...Then I would just leave them like 4 feet from her cage for many more days...until moving them even closer but not putting them in or forcing the interaction with them. Modeling use of these objects can also help if it is done from a far--- I pretended to enjoy the unfamiliar objects from a distance so that she could see but so that she didn't feel threatened.

We used to make sure to introduce him to something new a few times per week (a new toy/furniture/box/something he's never seen before) just so he would be more comfortable adapting to new things without panicking. We got complacent/lazy and stopped doing this. That's why I think it's become more of a problem, because New Things are a much less frequent occurrence so he's more scared, so we want to do it less often and not freak him out, so he's more scared when we do, and so on and so on. :/

This sounds like good stuff for us to try. The modeling stuff sounds promising as does the slow and steady moving closer to the cage with the New Thing. Thank you :)

Thanks to all who responded. :)
 

noodles123

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I did misunderstand-- I thought he was showing a lot of fear in general (not just toward new things). Sorry! I think the second part of my reply (the one you referenced) could still work though. Also-- associating names with objects. I touch the toys Noodles likes and say, "it's a toy!" and when she touches them, I say, "great job playing with your toy!", and when I introduce a new one, I say, "it's a toy!"---I DO think she knows the term now and that has helped her.. I do the same things with loud sounds-- whenever I drop something, I say "boom!" and whenever I know I will be loud, I say, "I am going to _______________, it's going to make a loud sound!" (followed by the loud sound).
 

Ira7

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My Grey used to go ballistic when I put on a mask for Halloween to hand out the candy, or any time I had to carry a big box past his cage. All of the calm talking and assurances didn’t help.

I never read that they’re especially fearful, but it must be true.

The big packages don’t bother my YNA at all, and I’ve recently worn masks (long story), and he just looks at me like I’m an idiot.
 

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