Big breeder vs. small breeder

Yes, I am still looking for breeders I think it has come down to 2. They are both awesome breeders. One is huge and carries every bird imaginable (even red tailed black toos!!). The other is a little tiny one that I found on kijiji. I have emailed both. Both of them have been really nice and answered all of my questions.
The big breeder: TODD MARCUS BIRDS EXOTIC - THEBIRDSTORE.COM - (856) 764-2473
Small breeder: (no website yet) ForestWonders on eBay Classifieds - Free Local Classifieds Ads

I would beware of the smaller breeder, unless they are close to you, then Id want to see what they are doing and how they are taking care of their flock.

I can understand if they dont allow you to see their birds for the sake of just looking, but if your considering buying from them, they should allow you to come over and see them, or drop in at any time to make sure the place isnt dirty, or the birds are being mishandled.

you want a healthy bird, and unless a baby comes from healthy parents, you cant tell unless its too late, that there arent healthy, cause chances are, a unhealthy parent = a unhealthy baby.

as for the bigger breeder, ask for refrences and call the local shelter there and ask if they have any info on them. I dont know how it is with birds in your area, but if they are selling animals at such a large scale, they need a license, or at least to comply with codes.

The bigger breeder has reviews here: Todd Marcus Birds Exotic - Delran
I asked the smaller breeder if I can come in and he hasnt replied.

The bigger breeder has been around for 29 years... Im sure that they arent illegally selling birds.
edit: The smaller breeder gets his birds from Puerto Rico... That worries me a little. I asked the bigger breeder where his birds come from.

I really like how the big breeders health guarantee is 6 months. The little breeders is 2 weeks and that only counts if you bring the bird to the vet 24 hours after getting it.

I swore to myself I wouldn't comment on this thread, but I just can't help it. Peronally I would go with the big breeder for all the reasons stated above. Small aviaries get away with treating birds very badly and often go unchecked. That being said, honestly there are not a lot of licenses or codes to follow as a breeder. The USDA does not manage parrots like they do puppies and kittens. We are required to have a sales tax id number, and for certain species we have a federally issued captive wildlife permit. (Which means that I get inspected periodically to make sure I'm meeting all the requirements.) We have some unrelated permits as well (state issued captive wildlife permit, and a state issued rehabilitation permit just in case someone drops off a raccoon or baby robin). But even rescues are not required to have a 501c status. I know all this because we have a local "rescue" that we are trying like crazy to have shut down... to no avail. I've personally seen the owner perform a "surgery on a conure" no anesthesia, not done by a vet, the bird screamed in pain and died shortly after. I ran out of the room and called the police and animal control and they said there was nothing they could do. His birds are currently (I mean as I write this) locked in a building with no moving air or fans on a day that is after heat indice is taken into account 115degrees. (I will share more info on this as soon as I can... I don't want to risk tipping the owner off.)

Point is that you should go with your gut instinct.

That being said a lot of smaller breeders (and even certain large ones) run a "closed aviary". This is so difficult because you never know if they're hiding something. My personal aviary is a "closed aviary". I did this after realizing that my breeder birds don't even tolerate my husband in the building, and discovering there are so many illnesses that people can bring in. So if you want to see my aviary you have to be satisfied to look on my computer at a closed circuit camera system. My silly toos will go off their rockers if they get disturbed while they're on eggs. Anytime my male blue front amazon sees a man he attacks his mate. Most breeders have some pairs like this. I keep very strict hours with certain sections of the aviary (like the african greys) because they feel most secure if they know exactly when to expect to be disturbed.

I really would go with the big breeder (although their babies may not be as tame) simply because to be around that long you have to be doing at least a decent job. But don't ever be surprised if you ask a breeder to see their aviary and you get a flat "no". One of the 2 aviaries I'm partnered with has an open aviary, and he often sends birds here that don't breed for him in such an open environment. Every breeders set up differs. However, I would never buy a bird from someone who couldn't at least provide vet references. (We go to bird shows out of state and so our birds regularly see the vet to prove that "the babies come from a healthy flock".

As for a 6 month health guarantee... I wish I could, but novice owners can screw up a bird so fast. I give a lifetime guarantee against genetic defects. All babies are tested for chlamydiosis. And they are all polyoma vaccinated. I imagine the big breeder can do that because they are selling so many that when a baby gets sick it doesn't hurt them as bad finacially... big business vs. Small business. Most aviaries will require you to do your own vet check... I give 72 hours give or take.


Sorry, this is an age old question and I just wanted to share.

Go with the big breeder and get a good quality healthy baby... even if it isn't as tame, it should be more than friendly enough to learn to be just as sweet as a baby raised ina small aviary.

At the end of the day it's which breeder you feel most comfortable with. In my experience the smaller breeder spends the most time with with their babies & they are part of the household. The large breeders normally have their babies in a bird room so are not part of a family environment. I have purchased birds from a big breeder & compared to my babies i raise my birds are more friendly.

I give 72 hours to get the bird to a vet, and a 2 week health guarantee from the date taken to a vet... exceptions are always made if the bird was declared healthy by a vet and still dies after the two weeks. I do require a necropsy, but if it was something that could have come from here or an internal defect we refund or replace anyway.

Being such a small breeder I also offer a guarantee with all my chicks usually 1 month. As we don't have an avian vet with in cooee of where i live i have to maintain healthy stock. To be totally honest i have never sold a sick bird in 30 years & have never had a chick die from an illness when it went to it's new home. Although there have been accidents, i wont go into the horrible details but i have replaced such birds, especially if it involves a child, for free.

Just because i am a small breeder doesn't mean i don't sell quality birds. I don't sell my birds just for the money, this is my hobby & i love every moment of it. I also offer my after sales service where i don't care how long ago a bird has been purchased. If they need help they know i will be there for them.

I never advertise my babies they are all sold by word of mouth so i guess that says something.

Thus far I've only had to replace one baby... she had some sort of heart defect. I split the pair that produced her (she was tiel) and bought her back. They decided to go with a quaker for their replacement.

I think the bigger breeder sounds like a better choice.

The larger breeder seems to have great reviews and being an established business they would probably be pleasant to deal with. I'm not saying the smaller breeder is bad, theirs just a lack of information to make an informed judgement about her/him. It would be worth dropping by their aviaries and having a look if you were interested so you can see what they are like, but otherwise the bigger place looks like they will be great.

I thing that a small breeder can be as good as a big, so the question is if the small breeder is as good as the big. I thing you should look for the best bird for you and demanding a good helth garati, 3 month or more if possible.

I thought you wanted a Green Cheek Conure. I didn't see them listed at the Big Breeders site.

Bobioden said:

I thought you wanted a Green Cheek Conure. I didn't see them listed at the Big Breeders site.

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They have green cheeks....they really have any parrot you could think of (except gang gangs...). I have no idea why that list is there...

I occasionally handfeed for a local big breeder when she goes on vacation... I have so much trouble sometimes because her babies are use to having to open their throats and have all the formula shoved in at once. I feed very slowly and let the babies taste the formula, but then again I don't have 100 pairs of birds.

Awwwhhhh poor babies.

Atwee921 said:

Awwwhhhh poor babies.

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Don't worry Atwee the crop tube is never shoved down a babies throat, but very carefully placed & the baby usually gobbles down the tube anyway. Also i might add that sometimes by knowing how to use a crop needle or feeding tube means the difference of life or death if your baby is sick. Another reason for knowing how to use the crop needles is if a baby has sour crop its the only safe way to clear the crop & give it a good wash out.

I have saved many sick parrots for worried owners simply by knowing how to use a crop needle. It's all part of being a good & knowledgable breeder.

Not that i am trying to offend anyone. But members need to know reasons behind why birds are fed in this manner. Yes when i was feeding birds for another big breeder i had to crop feed as i didn't have time to do 100 to 150 babies at each feeding. I also crop feed if i have a stubborn chick that mucks around with the spoon. And it's the best way to deliver the correct dosage of meds straight into the crop.

Atwee921 said:

Bobioden said:

I thought you wanted a Green Cheek Conure. I didn't see them listed at the Big Breeders site.

Click to expand...

They have green cheeks....they really have any parrot you could think of (except gang gangs...). I have no idea why that list is there...

Click to expand...

What kind of GCC are you looking to get? Normal or one of the mutations/
Male or Female, or does it matter?

I have no problem with the big breeder, she's a very dear friend and I highly respect her. I was just pointing out that when you have a lot of babies you don't have a lot of time to devote to each feeding. As far as tube feeding and crop flushes I know how now, but only in cases of things like crop flushing for crop stasis. But with things like baby Eclectus, a tube fed baby differs A LOT from a slow syringe or spoon fed baby.

Although toos are generally very voracious eaters along with macaws, so with them it doesn't matter if you try to feed them slowly.... they vacuum formula down