Why do so many birds get sick and die young?

dishgal1

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Since I have been on this forum, (very short time) I have noticed so many sick and dying birds. What are we doing wrong? When I was a child I knew an elderly couple who had a parrot for 40 years never had it to the vet.
Sometimes I wonder how many unnecessary tests are performed on our pets just as so many tests are performed on us by medical doctors.

Has anyone considered how much blood from a small bird it takes to do a blood panel ? Now consider taking that amount of blood from an already weakened sick bird, which has to knock him to the floor as far as fighting off whatever is ailing him.

We have been lucky enough to find a vet for our dogs who doesn't do unnecessary tests without doing the obvious in the beginning, then if his quick fix doesn't take care of it he will go on to testing. Saves hundreds of dollars just to find out maybe they just needed antibiotics to begin with.
Our avian vet doesn't like to take blood unless it is absolutely necessary which I am very pleased to know for this very reason.

I know birds go down hill fast but doesn't taking blood take them down even faster, especially on a smaller bird? It seems they end up dying anyway.

It is just very depressing to hear these stories of their babies and the expenses they have been out and still be unable to save them and are left with huge expenses to pay for.

The pet industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and it just makes you stop and think if it is always in the best interest of the pet or to pad their pockets. I know there are times when it might be needed but I wonder how often it could be treated without all of the tests.

Maybe I am just cynical but I have lived enough years (65) to see greed take over in every corner of society. Anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
 

horsesculpter

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It is hard to say on the babies, but I think on our older birds we keep them in a very unnatural environment. In the wild they would be flying many miles every day and eating natural foods foraged all day. No processed foods and no perch potatoes. Yup, the old saw, diet and exercise!!! I think our beloved birds are also subject to exposure to toxic chemicals from many sources, including cleaning supplies, insecticides, air pollution, preservatives in our foods, etc. Our birds are so tiny compared to us that I think these things effect them heavily and there may be a cumulative effect of some of these toxins that building up over time, make them hard to diagnose.
 

evesta

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I know the pet store birds I see there is always some bird under observation or at the vet and what gets me is that they keep the sick bird with the other baby birds! I think a lot of babies sold at stores or by some breeders are sick to start with. You see the same thing with fish at stores. I always treat fish as if they have parasites or are ill because most are. That's what happens from crowded conditions and animals cross contaminating each other coming from different places with different germs. That's why it is so important to go to the vet an reputable breeders/stores/rescues.
 

Mudkips

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I think the Hygiene hypothesis comes into the equation.
Many birds seem to not get sick for years, then suddenly die when they first contract an illness.

I maybe wrong about this, but it seems like a good idea to take Birdy out as often as I can for this reason.
 

ann

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i agree 100%, well said dishgal.
 

lene1949

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I think maybe Mudkips is right...

We protect our birds from everything that could be mildly dangerous to them, so they may not be able to build up a proper immune system...

When I was young in Denmark, there was a story in the newspaper about a little boy, who died... The only diagnoses was, that he was just too clean! The parents didn't allow him to come into contact with anything that could potentially harm him...
 

Alisana

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I think maybe Mudkips is right...

We protect our birds from everything that could be mildly dangerous to them, so they may not be able to build up a proper immune system...

When I was young in Denmark, there was a story in the newspaper about a little boy, who died... The only diagnoses was, that he was just too clean! The parents didn't allow him to come into contact with anything that could potentially harm him...

As someone who grew up in an environment where everything was sanitised before I was allowed to play with it - and given that I seem to come down with every cold that comes around, I can certainly agree with this!
 
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dishgal1

dishgal1

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I think maybe Mudkips is right...

We protect our birds from everything that could be mildly dangerous to them, so they may not be able to build up a proper immune system...

When I was young in Denmark, there was a story in the newspaper about a little boy, who died... The only diagnoses was, that he was just too clean! The parents didn't allow him to come into contact with anything that could potentially harm him...

As someone who grew up in an environment where everything was sanitised before I was allowed to play with it - and given that I seem to come down with every cold that comes around, I can certainly agree with this!

There is something to be said for that as well, immune systems cannot develop when they are not exposed to anything. It is kind of like vaccines...when I was a child we were deliberately exposed to measles mumps chicken pox etc. so we could have it and get it over with. Now there is a vaccine for everything. I am basically a very healthy person at my age compared to a lot of people many years younger than myself.
Vaccines in my opinion are just another avenue of greed, whatever they cause the drug companies have a drug to treat your problem but not cure it. I never take flu shots and never get the flu. I don't vaccinate my dog except for rabies and my vet is fine with that. He is very much into alternate natural ideas for just about everything if we choose.

Ghandi once said that the end result from too many vaccines would be worse than the disease itself. I totally believe that. There was an outbreak in a school near us of chicken pox (the worst they had ever seen as far as severity of cases) which they blamed on being exposed to someone who had not taken the vaccine. Really? If you are vaccinated shouldn't you be immune to it and not have a worse case?
 

KatherineI

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YES! Keeping our birds overly protected is just as bad as overly protecting our kids (in every way, shape or form). I think it's important to expose them, without necessarily putting them in danger and that's the difficult balance. As both a parent and parront, I speak from experience on that one!!

It does sadden me every time I hear of a companion bird's passing from anything other than old age. My Aunt-In-Law has had the same wild-caught Amazon since the 80's. Aside from when she caught him, because he was thrown into the side of a building by a storm, I don't think she's ever taken that bird to the vet. I'm not advocating never taking a bird to the AV, on the contrary, I'm just saying that it's amazing how the animals that are well cared for seem the quickest to go :(
 

thermodynamic

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Since I have been on this forum, (very short time) I have noticed so many sick and dying birds. What are we doing wrong? When I was a child I knew an elderly couple who had a parrot for 40 years never had it to the vet.
Sometimes I wonder how many unnecessary tests are performed on our pets just as so many tests are performed on us by medical doctors.

Has anyone considered how much blood from a small bird it takes to do a blood panel ? Now consider taking that amount of blood from an already weakened sick bird, which has to knock him to the floor as far as fighting off whatever is ailing him.

We have been lucky enough to find a vet for our dogs who doesn't do unnecessary tests without doing the obvious in the beginning, then if his quick fix doesn't take care of it he will go on to testing. Saves hundreds of dollars just to find out maybe they just needed antibiotics to begin with.
Our avian vet doesn't like to take blood unless it is absolutely necessary which I am very pleased to know for this very reason.

I know birds go down hill fast but doesn't taking blood take them down even faster, especially on a smaller bird? It seems they end up dying anyway.

It is just very depressing to hear these stories of their babies and the expenses they have been out and still be unable to save them and are left with huge expenses to pay for.

The pet industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and it just makes you stop and think if it is always in the best interest of the pet or to pad their pockets. I know there are times when it might be needed but I wonder how often it could be treated without all of the tests.

Maybe I am just cynical but I have lived enough years (65) to see greed take over in every corner of society. Anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Awesome post.

For previous birds, I may have been ripped off with psittiacosis(sp?)) tests that may not have been needed, especially if the birds were vaccinated before being sold.

My new adoption, Tybbi, is seeing the vet on Friday. Given she was abandoned in a bathroom, stuck in a pet store, adopted by an employee that brought the bird back to the store, and I don't know what the bird ever had in terms of immunizations, I am spending $250 for all the bloodwork, physical, etc... then, if I chose, I could put her in the same room with my other fids but Tybbi might stay in the main area. She's been remarkably quiet and seems to be opening up to me more and more (fewer battles).

I've had bloodwork done from parrotlets to GCCs and soon the blue crown. None has died in the care of my vet.

Granted, a couple years ago, to go in for DNA testing, they did demand physicals (fair), but noting the price of Tybbi's physical sans bloodwork, the net price for each bird was $200 more than I'd expected.

Every industry is becoming a multi-billion dollar industry that will happily fleece (the later blame) us and walking away with it, though... Without going into too many tangents, I did do a 10 page research paper on breeder mills and the conditions that go on are... despicable. I (unfortunately) never fathomed fish, as someone else responding here had, but I did encompass main pet animals (dogs, cats, birds) and even food animals to a minor extent... but these animals are mere 'product'. Breeder mills don't think or care about the customer. Just their balance sheets. That might be a reason why so many animals get abandoned; being poorly raised in mills and not being the sweet cuddle-able cuties they're led to believe...

I will say my Zoe (Senegal parrot, 1998-2007) might have died from mold. I often fed her peanuts in the shell as a treat. I hadn't known until after she had died, from an internet source, the risk of mold... I will NEVER buy peanuts again, in any shelled form. None of the food I give them contains even shelled peanuts. Or propylene glycol (that one I've been aware of in general... coolant and shampoo ingredients do not make good nutritious foodstuffs...)

Come to think of it, any lead in birdcages could harm or kill birds as well... and it is a nice suitable substitute by unethical, immoral sleazy companies to use to "cut costs" as well. Cut costs, yet keep prices inflated, then say if people want good quality product they will raise the price. Talk about chicanery and thievery...
 

Mudkips

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I think it's important to expose them, without necessarily putting them in danger and that's the difficult balance.
Never truer words were spoken.
There are things I do with Birdy outdoors that most people would consider incredibly risky, and yet there are things that other people do in the "safety" of their own home that make me cringe with fear.

it's amazing how the animals that are well cared for seem the quickest to go :(
This quote painfully hits home for me.

A bit of an off topic post, but...
I cared "too much" for my first baby GCC. He would cry out for me when I left him alone in his cage, so I would let him sleep in bed beside me.
One morning he suffocated under my shoulder while I slept. He was only a few weeks old.
I can't explain the confusion I felt afterwards: I was always on edge whenever I took him outside with me - the warnings and dangers were so apparent, I was scared to simply cross the road with him!. Yet he died because of me when we were both at our most relaxed.

It truly is a fine line between exposure and danger, care and carelessness.​
 
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Mozzie

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Great Post dishgal! It gives us all a lot to think about. Thanks.
 

MaraWentz

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I completely agree. I lost my favourite and most dearest baby boy to the vet while he was taking blood tests.He was the firs and only of 7 parrots to go to the vet (except for emergencies- and only 2 of those occurred) and he was the only one to die. All our healthy and still kicking. Sad part is was that my macaw was only10 when he passed. He had many many bright years ahead of him. I just keep wondering if I never took him to the vet if his death would never had happened.
 

Ginkai

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On the subject of protecting our birds to much I've always been confused by the advice to cook all natural perches in the oven before giving them to my birds to get rid of bad stuff. I know I am still relatively new to this forum but that always confused me and I thought if wild galahs can deal with what's on this tree why can't my galah? That doesn't make sense to me. And I'm sorry if i get hated or banned fir saying this but I've been giving her branches straight off my trees and she's healthy as an ox
 

mcw009

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I think maybe Mudkips is right...

We protect our birds from everything that could be mildly dangerous to them, so they may not be able to build up a proper immune system...

When I was young in Denmark, there was a story in the newspaper about a little boy, who died... The only diagnoses was, that he was just too clean! The parents didn't allow him to come into contact with anything that could potentially harm him...

As someone who grew up in an environment where everything was sanitised before I was allowed to play with it - and given that I seem to come down with every cold that comes around, I can certainly agree with this!

There is something to be said for that as well, immune systems cannot develop when they are not exposed to anything. It is kind of like vaccines...when I was a child we were deliberately exposed to measles mumps chicken pox etc. so we could have it and get it over with. Now there is a vaccine for everything. I am basically a very healthy person at my age compared to a lot of people many years younger than myself.
Vaccines in my opinion are just another avenue of greed, whatever they cause the drug companies have a drug to treat your problem but not cure it. I never take flu shots and never get the flu. I don't vaccinate my dog except for rabies and my vet is fine with that. He is very much into alternate natural ideas for just about everything if we choose.

Ghandi once said that the end result from too many vaccines would be worse than the disease itself. I totally believe that. There was an outbreak in a school near us of chicken pox (the worst they had ever seen as far as severity of cases) which they blamed on being exposed to someone who had not taken the vaccine. Really? If you are vaccinated shouldn't you be immune to it and not have a worse case?

I don't entirely agree about the vaccines, but it does seem like there are a growing number that just seem excessive... is chicken pox commonly vaccinated against now?? But a lot of diseases we vaccinate against can be severe, and now that most of them are all but eliminated and no one in my generation (for example) has been exposed to it, an outbreak would be devastating.

But overall I concur. I've never had a flu shot, and I've never gotten the flu.

It's been proven that growing up with cats reduces your odds of developing asthma. Anecdotally, my parents let me run around the woods and play with critters and get dirty, and by and large I've got a robust immune system.

When it comes to medicine (both human and veterinary), part of the problem is that doctors are afraid if they don't cover all their bases and something happens, they'll have a malpractice suit on their hands. It's becoming more common for vets these days too. There's definitely a greed aspect too though. The more procedures, the more drugs, the more tests, the more it costs. I know vets advise pet owners to get lots of different shots annually, which often just isn't necessary- especially if the animal in question isn't going outside or being exposed to new animals. It probably leads to over-diagnosing and over-treating.
 
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dishgal1

dishgal1

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I completely agree. I lost my favourite and most dearest baby boy to the vet while he was taking blood tests.He was the firs and only of 7 parrots to go to the vet (except for emergencies- and only 2 of those occurred) and he was the only one to die. All our healthy and still kicking. Sad part is was that my macaw was only10 when he passed. He had many many bright years ahead of him. I just keep wondering if I never took him to the vet if his death would never had happened.

I am so sorry to hear that but gives me another confirmation of how I feel about this blood work thing.

The startling thing about the blood my vet says it can take up to 3% of their blood to do a blood panel. How frightening is that? If you have ever given blood, you know what I mean. People pass out from that.
I don't plan to have any blood work done on my birds it seems they always give antibiotics after the tests anyway and it is very difficult to get that down the bird anyway. But at least they wouldn't be "bloodless".
 
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dishgal1

dishgal1

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They usually take blood from under the wing or the jugular....how scary is that?
 
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dishgal1

dishgal1

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On the subject of protecting our birds to much I've always been confused by the advice to cook all natural perches in the oven before giving them to my birds to get rid of bad stuff. I know I am still relatively new to this forum but that always confused me and I thought if wild galahs can deal with what's on this tree why can't my galah? That doesn't make sense to me. And I'm sorry if i get hated or banned fir saying this but I've been giving her branches straight off my trees and she's healthy as an ox

It would probably help get rid of lice or other diseases from wild birds to bake them. I believe that would be my reason for doing it.
 

mcw009

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They usually take blood from under the wing or the jugular....how scary is that?
I take blood samples from zebra finches and starlings on a really regular basis (regular enough that I know I can bleed about 25 finches an hour) via the brachial-ulnar vein (the one under the wing), and I've practiced taking samples via the jugular vein in finches (who average only about 14 grams). Of all the hundreds of individuals and hundreds upon hundreds of times I've taken samples, I've never had a bird bleed to death. I'm not a vet and I don't have any kind of veterinary/vet tech education. So really, taking some blood isn't a huge deal. I would be wary of taking a significant amount of blood from a sick bird, but pretty much only because of the blood loss; not the act of taking blood (although it is stressful and that CAN kill a bird. However, pet parrots are comfortable being handled by people, so it's less stressful for them than for my finches and starlings. Depending on how sick they are, the stress of getting poked could put them over the edge. If that's the case, they're probably beyond help already anyway though.)
 

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