Ugly OPEN Band!

Gillis · Oct 12, 2015

So I posted these photos and talked a little bit about this on Kriztoefur's band post, but I wanted to make a separate thread for others to see and hopefully get some input on Peanut's band.

Like I mentioned in my other post, I band birds professionally for a living. Wild birds, mind you. Yes, bands can sometimes cause harm to the bird but this is extremely rare, and these birds are surviving in the wild and being recaptured years later in perfect health. That being said, the bands I put on are of the appropriate size for the leg and are properly closed and adjusted. Thankfully we do have the privilege of being able to watch and keep an eye on our banded parrots. Wild birds don't have this luxury!

My new GCC conure, Peanut, came to me two weeks ago with an OPEN band. Why is the band open? I mean, literally there is a gap in the band when it should have been closed properly and obviously was not. As a bird bander, I find this rather offensive that someone can get away with putting on a band that is so poorly closed as this one. With how much training, licensing, etc I need to go through to band birds, I am rather appalled that this can happen to our feathered friends. I will definitely be adjusting the band and removing it if I am still not satisfied.

But other than the band being actually not closed, why is it an open band? I was under the impression that imported parrots have open bands while captive-bred parrots have closed ring bands. I don't know Peanut's orginin except that I bought him from a breeder who bought him from an owner who got him...? He is only supposed to be about one year old but his band also looks pretty worn and the enameled white numbers are loosing their enamel already.

Gillis · Oct 12, 2015

And for the record his band is: BBF 8098

Why do I have the sneaking suspicion that this bird is actually much older and is wild caught? Is there any way to know for sure?

SilverSage · Oct 12, 2015

The fact that it is gaping open is upsetting. No licensing is required to apply bands like this to captive birds.

I believe another member here has been asking about a bird with the same breeder code; perhaps the two of you could help each other find out more?

That is not an import band, or at least is almost certainly not. I have actually never seen a wild caught gcc or heard of one still being alive. I believe that imported birds were banded with rolled bands, which is what I have seen on all the imported birds I have met. This one looks like a regular flat band which is easy to buy. If your bird was imported he would be quite elderly by now and there would be no mistaking him for a one year old. Also the band would be unreadable by now.

Imported birds were required to be banded, and captive bred birds are often closed banded, however there is no guarantee. I closed band my babies, but once I was very sick and missed the window on one chick in one clutch. If I had still wanted her to wear my band, I would have out an open band on her. I personally hate open bands because they can open like this over time and are much more likely to get caught on something or be squeezed closed by a beak and cut the bird, so I choose not to do it.

An open band can be placed on at any age, so there is no telling the actual age, but with the upper limit of the conure lifespan being about 30 years, it is highly unlikely that you have an imported bird. It's unfortunate that they breed de you bought from didn't bother to get the history of the bird.

If you are going to remove the band or tighten it, I would generally suggest you have a vet do it. However, it sounds like with your training it might actually be better to do it yourself. If you do, please make sure you have the actual tools. Tightening the band with pliers will bend it in the wrong shape, making it much more likely to cut the bird or get caught on something. A band applicator is only a few dollars from band companies like L&M Bird Legbands.

Gillis · Oct 12, 2015

SilverSage said:
The fact that it is gaping open is upsetting. No licensing is required to apply bands like this to captive birds.

I believe another member here has been asking about a bird with the same breeder code; perhaps the two of you could help each other find out more?

That is not an import band, or at least is almost certainly not. I have actually never seen a wild caught gcc or heard of one still being alive. I believe that imported birds were banded with rolled bands, which is what I have seen on all the imported birds I have met. This one looks like a regular flat band which is easy to buy. If your bird was imported he would be quite elderly by now and there would be no mistaking him for a one year old. Also the band would be unreadable by now.

Imported birds were required to be banded, and captive bred birds are often closed banded, however there is no guarantee. I closed band my babies, but once I was very sick and missed the window on one chick in one clutch. If I had still wanted her to wear my band, I would have out an open band on her. I personally hate open bands because they can open like this over time and are much more likely to get caught on something or be squeezed closed by a beak and cut the bird, so I choose not to do it.

An open band can be placed on at any age, so there is no telling the actual age, but with the upper limit of the conure lifespan being about 30 years, it is highly unlikely that you have an imported bird. It's unfortunate that they breed de you bought from didn't bother to get the history of the bird.

If you are going to remove the band or tighten it, I would generally suggest you have a vet do it. However, it sounds like with your training it might actually be better to do it yourself. If you do, please make sure you have the actual tools. Tightening the band with pliers will bend it in the wrong shape, making it much more likely to cut the bird or get caught on something. A band applicator is only a few dollars from band companies like L&M Bird Legbands.

Thanks so much for your input, I feel much relieved knowing that he's not a wild caught bird. I know the Wild Bird Conservation Act was passed in 1992, which would make Peanut at least 23-24 years old, so not impossible but very unlikely. This parront had a moment of panic when she started looking into the open band thing and is very glad to hear your opinion.

IMHO, people should be trained and/or licensed to band their parrots to keep things like this from happening. It would probably also cut down on the number of disgusting "back-yard" breeders that keep their birds in ugly conditions just to make a few bucks. But that's just me!

I'm going to email the breeder I got him from to see if he was bred by her or someone else. I'd like to let them know that his band is unacceptable (and also that he is such a sweetie!). Not that I expect them to care; they obviously didn't when they sent him away with the bad band in the first place. I'll try to find out who else was looking for the BBF combination.

I'm glad you didn't place the open band on your baby, it's just not worth the risk! Not that you wouldn't have done a fine job, but like you said, it's much more liable to catch on things and become a problem. When we band Puffins we have to make sure there is no gap at all because they can easily become entangled in fishing line.

Yes, I have all the appropriate tools necessary to make the adjustments. With certain techniques you can actually close bands like this with regular pliers but the techniques are advanced and not recommended for beginners. Thanks for checking on this and making sure that he is going to be safe - he will be!

sadiebird · Oct 15, 2015

Hi there - I just also got a GCC from Petsmart (he was being treated poorly and needed a better life). We had an identical band situation! Same breeder too - BBF 5445.

The band was open the same way, and had started rubbing on his leg, so my partner and I removed it the second day. He was incredibly grateful to get it off, and I think it has helped him settle in (now that he truly understands we are trying to help).

Do you have the breeder's contact info? We were very much not impressed by this band.

amjokai · Oct 15, 2015

I band my baby cockatiels with closed bands but if I acquire an adult cockatiel and he has no band I put open bands on them like this. However I catch my birds up monthly and weigh them and check that their bands are still closed. Many of my cockatiels look alike and it would be impossible for me to tell them apart if they weren't banded.

Baby birds need to be banded before they are 10-14 days old. If you miss that window of opportunity sometimes it is almost impossible to close band them.
Most pet stores require birds be banded and some states also require it. The breeder probably find it easier to open band his birds because it can be done at any age.

amjokai · Oct 15, 2015

Oh however I won't use an open flat band on anything with a stronger beak than a cockatiel or parakeet. The stainless steel rolled bands are much safer.

Gillis · Oct 17, 2015

sadiebird said:
Hi there - I just also got a GCC from Petsmart (he was being treated poorly and needed a better life). We had an identical band situation! Same breeder too - BBF 5445.

The band was open the same way, and had started rubbing on his leg, so my partner and I removed it the second day. He was incredibly grateful to get it off, and I think it has helped him settle in (now that he truly understands we are trying to help).

Do you have the breeder's contact info? We were very much not impressed by this band.

I emailed the lady I got him from so we will see if she knows anything! Hopefully we can track this person down and let them know that her bands are totally unacceptable and causing harm to the birds. I'm so glad to hear that you decided to rescue your baby from the store and removed his ugly band!

Gillis · Oct 17, 2015

amjokai said:
I band my baby cockatiels with closed bands but if I acquire an adult cockatiel and he has no band I put open bands on them like this. However I catch my birds up monthly and weigh them and check that their bands are still closed. Many of my cockatiels look alike and it would be impossible for me to tell them apart if they weren't banded.

Baby birds need to be banded before they are 10-14 days old. If you miss that window of opportunity sometimes it is almost impossible to close band them.
Most pet stores require birds be banded and some states also require it. The breeder probably find it easier to open band his birds because it can be done at any age.

At least your are responsible about it if you do end up needing to band your birds with open bands. I just wish everyone felt the same way!

MonicaMc · Oct 17, 2015

Just for everyone's information, import bands are flat and have 3 letters and 5 numbers - as opposed to the old import bands that were rounded and had 3 letters and 3 numbers.

Here is an import band from May of 2013, off of a wild caught african ringneck.

And yes, I am located within the United States. Only three species of parrots can *LEGALLY* be imported from the wild into the United States. This includes African Ringnecks (Indian Ringnecks are a subspecies), Budgerigars and Cockatiels. Since Australia has a ban on any import and exports of parrots (and of course we already have *PLENTY* of tiels and budgies), this means the only parrot that can, and is, legally imported from the wild is the African Ringneck.

It is near impossible to import or export a parrot to/from Australia, even if you can prove the bird is captive raised and a pet. You can even spend 2-3 years trying to get approval to move your pet, and they'll tell you NO.

I could be wrong, but I think there is a breeder in California that uses the band code BBF? (would have to look it up to be sure...)

Gillis · Oct 17, 2015

MonicaMc said:
Just for everyone's information, import bands are flat and have 3 letters and 5 numbers - as opposed to the old import bands that were rounded and had 3 letters and 3 numbers.

I could be wrong, but I think there is a breeder in California that uses the band code BBF? (would have to look it up to be sure...)

Thanks for the great info, Monica! Wow, I'm so sorry to see that band on your poor baby, what a mess. I can't believe people think this is ok!

I did email the woman I got Peanut from and she said he was purchased at a petstore in Dallas, TX. She thinks maybe they were the ones to put the band on. I may be contacting the L&L Band company to see if they have more info. Thanks for your suggestion of CA.

sadiebird · Oct 17, 2015

I emailed the lady I got him from so we will see if she knows anything! Hopefully we can track this person down and let them know that her bands are totally unacceptable and causing harm to the birds. I'm so glad to hear that you decided to rescue your baby from the store and removed his ugly band!

Yes, definitely let me know - I will also be contacting Petsmart to get more information if they have it.

Just fyi, I got mine in Portland, OR. I found two possible breeders online so far:

The Baby Bird Farm - Cliff Patterson, Rockford IL, 815-968-4320
or Bernis Bird Farm - no contact info I could find, but I was able to send them an email through a band registry site.

sadiebird · Oct 17, 2015

So, just got back from Petsmart... they said they had paperwork on my bird, but when I got there it was for a different bird (wrong band #). I asked if I could get the contact info for the breeder, and they pointed to the name at the top of the paperwork (I had to point out that I would need a phone number, not just a name). But at least now I know the breeder is Barney's Pets/Barney's Bird Farm. From my research they seem to be a mass supplier based out of California.

Ugh humans disgust me.

MonicaMc · Oct 17, 2015

Gillis said:
Thanks for the great info, Monica! Wow, I'm so sorry to see that band on your poor baby, what a mess. I can't believe people think this is ok!

I did email the woman I got Peanut from and she said he was purchased at a petstore in Dallas, TX. She thinks maybe they were the ones to put the band on. I may be contacting the L&L Band company to see if they have more info. Thanks for your suggestion of CA.

Gillis, chances are, she did that to herself. She is an african ringneck, and I have no doubt that she has a beak strong enough to bend the metal if she so chose to. If she did in fact do this to herself, then I can at least be thankful for the fact that she didn't make it any tighter! It was still loose enough to twist around her ankle.

I had my a-vet remove the band.

I have two other birds who are closed banded and I'm choosing to leave their bands on (even knowing the horror stories about bands in general! open or closed!)

Here's the breeder I was thinking of in California. They often ship to pet stores around the USA, and may be the breeder of your birds. However, from the sounds of it, they do not like giving out any information and will only tell you to contact the store you purchased your bird from... and it's hit or miss whether or not the store will give you any information about your bird!

Barney's Bird Farm
13325 Benson Ave,
Chino, CA 91710
(909) 591-4200

There is also one more I've come across... don't know if they band their own birds or not, though....

Bracken Bird Farm
Bracken Bird Farm | Your Super Awesome Source for All Things Birds! | Bracken Bird Farm

Gillis · Oct 18, 2015

sadiebird said:
So, just got back from Petsmart... they said they had paperwork on my bird, but when I got there it was for a different bird (wrong band #). I asked if I could get the contact info for the breeder, and they pointed to the name at the top of the paperwork (I had to point out that I would need a phone number, not just a name). But at least now I know the breeder is Barney's Pets/Barney's Bird Farm. From my research they seem to be a mass supplier based out of California.

Ugh humans disgust me.

Yay, that's great! I'm do glad you found out where your bird came from. I'm betting mine came from the same place. I'll definitely let you know when I find out.

Gillis · Oct 18, 2015

MonicaMc said:
Gillis, chances are, she did that to herself. She is an african ringneck, and I have no doubt that she has a beak strong enough to bend the metal if she so chose to. If she did in fact do this to herself, then I can at least be thankful for the fact that she didn't make it any tighter! It was still loose enough to twist around her ankle.

I had my a-vet remove the band. I have two other birds who are closed banded and I'm choosing to leave their bands on (even knowing the horror stories about bands in general! open or closed!)

Here's the breeder I was thinking of in California. They often ship to pet stores around the USA, and may be the breeder of your birds. However, from the sounds of it, they do not like giving out any information and will only tell you to contact the store you purchased your bird from... and it's hit or miss whether or not the store will give you any information about your bird!

Barney's Bird Farm
13325 Benson Ave,
Chino, CA 91710
(909) 591-4200

There is also one more I've come across... don't know if they band their own birds or not, though....

Bracken Bird Farm
Bracken Bird Farm | Your Super Awesome Source for All Things Birds! | Bracken Bird Farm

That's true, she could have done that to her own band! I'm an continually amazed at how strong parrot's beaks are and yet how gentle they are with them. Especially when I hear about the scars from some of Paco's previous handlers!

Thanks so much for looking into this and proving the information. I'm going to see if I can find out for sure where Peanut came from, if he did come from Barney's Bird Farm. Hopefully we will be able to get to the bottom of this and at least let them that their parrots are being endangered and customers are unsatisfied.

Kriztoefur · Oct 18, 2015

As per branding, yes my previous post, but I'm starting to hear more and more about the lack of attention that goes into putting this potentially harmful thing on their legs/feet. Yes I can see the merit. But my signed "birth certificate" labeled the band being on the wrong side. Not a huge issue, but leads me to question the already mentioned attention to detail...Pet Smart in Northern Ontario

Ugly OPEN Band!

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