A Second Sun?

Hi All, I'm after some advice, and figured here might be the best way to get it.

I currently have a sun conure (Atti), I bought him five years ago, as a little 12 week old baby. Since I've had him we've been living with my mother and her tiel. Atti has adored torturing the tiel from the first day they met. Never actively hurting him, but dive bombing him the few times they've been out together, and obsessively calling to the tiel until Echo is just sitting screaming at the top of his lungs. At which point Atti goes and does something else. We would also go ob road trips and Atti loved visiting friend's birds, he didn't seem to mind what species but he was always very social and playful with them.

We moved out a while back and life has been incredibly calm since. Atti's always been a quiet bird, but without Echo to annoy he's stopped with all loud screeching. We had a sun conure visit recently and Atti was flat out delighted. He pulled out all his favourite songs and dancing.

Anyway I work 9-5 now (the perils of buying a pet when you are a teenager) and Atti has his own room and his cage is positioned for the best view. He looks out onto a tree with a bird feeder in it and the wild lorikeets, grass parrots and cockatoos 'visit' him all day long. I've been promising him a companion for a while, and decided to bite the bullet. I had been going to purchase a budgie or a lovebird or similar, to have in a separate cage in the same room that he could talk to. Then while searching for the right bird I came across an ad for hand reared conures... And fell in love. So I've put my name down for a female sun conure (still waiting on DNA back), but if there are no females in the clutch will take a male instead.

These bubs won't be weaned until Christmas, so it will be an almost exact five year age gap between the new bird and Atti. I would ultimately 'like' the two to share a cage, and have vague notions of maybe one day providing a nest box and breeding them, but these are very vague at the moment.

I am perfectly willing to lose my bond with Atti, I love him dearly, but the longer I am around wild parrots compared to him the more I feel that I am doing him a disservice having him bonded to me and not another sun conure. Even if I get ignored and screamed at for the next 30 years, I would still have two gorgeous birds to admire, and a myriad of antics to watch.

At the other end of the spectrum if they need separate caging I can live with that as well, I'm working the assumption they will need separate cages and purchasing a second full size cage. Though if they needed separate flight times that would make things much more difficult. As I have a greyhound as well, we already work on strict schedules of who is out at any given time.

As to the breeding thing, I like the idea of breeding him, but am currently not set up for it, and even if I wanted to, the girl would need a good three years to mature first. So it's just an idea nothing more, and I have no issue with addling any eggs laid and taking measures to prevent them in the first place if I decide not to breed.

So after this very long post, my actual query was about how the age difference would impact any attempts at bonding? I'll keep the new girl in quarantine for three months, which will give her a chance to bond with me and get used to me. Then I'll move her cage to Atti's room. As far as I can tell from what I have read I just keep moving the cages closer to each other and give the birds turns out of their cage, and eventually start trying flight time with both together. Then, one day there will be a point where they are ready to share a cage?

We have lots of users who work a 9-5 with single birds. There is no harm in it as long as they have something to do and watch while you are away (like a window, music, tv, lots and lots of toys) and keep them on a schedule. Espresso is an only bird and I work 4 jobs lol!! She is still spoiled rotten and very happy. The reason I am pointing this out to you is that you are his flock and there really isn't any guarantee that he will even bond with any other bird you bring in. Additionally, breeding is a huge responsibility! You have to provide round the clock care for your babies. I am of the opinion that, if you feel like you don't have the time to commit to one bird, two birds is never the answer. Provide the best care you can for your guy and he will be perfectly happy!

Sorry I should have been clearer, my issue is not that I think he is lonely, or I don't have enough time for him, if he had behaviour issues they would be the first thing I would address before even considering another bird. If we was unhappy, I would never think a second bird would be a solution. My motivation is that I want a second bird, and I also know that Atti enjoys having other birds around him. I have no expectation that he will bond with another bird, it doesn't stop him enjoying another birds company though. He certainly wasn't bonded to Echo or the wild parrots, or the parrots we used to visit. He just found them amusing. I would like him to bond with another bird, but I don't assume he will. Thats why I said I was buying a full size second cage, and am happy to have two parrots each in their own cage.

I know breeding is a huge responsibility, hence why I said it was something I may consider down the track... or may not. I would like to have that option. If there are no females in the clutch I will just as happily purchase a male. I am however confident I could house a male and a female together and prevent chicks being born.

I originally wanted a female sun conure, and that should have been what Atti was. The breeder mixed up the DNA certs and I only found out months later, and at the point there was no way I would return Atti. The preference for a female is mainly because I would like a female.

Personally for me, getting a second Sun Conure would send me over the edge....lol.....Ours screams non stop while I'm in the bird room cleaning out fish tank, watering plants, or cleaning their cages. Then we added a second conure recently due to my partner really wanted the Sun to have a friend, unfortunately they don't like each other and now the new Dusky Conure screams non stop as well until he can come out to be with me, he bonded to me from day one. With two screaming conures it's already driving me insane....lol....I would tell myself why did I take in another one, I just tell myself he needed me due to the fact he was kept poorly and also in ammonia heaven, yes it stunk badly in their house with ammonia....I guess I'm just stuck with them.....lol

Birds always like company of other birds, some may have really bad jealousy issues to the point they may try to hurt others. But they all do enjoy the company.

I've yet to meet even a flock of Suns that can out compete the wild flocks of lorikeets, rosellas and cockatoos. I have black cockatoos nesting in my backyard and that IS driving me batty. Especially the bit where neither me nor my dog can use the back quarter of he back yard without being attacked by flying furies. Sun conures compared to that are no trouble at all

I do have sound proofing in place and the ability to shut the door to Atti's room if noise does gets too bad, but Atti rarely uses full voice, or I'm just numb to it, I'm not sure which. Which I find funny as I get migraines (started a year after I got Atti) and I was sure I wouldn't be able to cope with him, but years later he still doesn't bother me.

Yes the Cockatoo scream is awful....But somehow it's the Conure's scream that bugs me the most. I think it all started many years ago when I had two conures that screams often and they drove me bananas....lol....I told myself never to have another conure ever again, but then people started asking me to take them. When I see their condition, back story, etc. I get suckered in.....

It's funny, Skittles screeching only bothers me when he is "on alert" because his pitch is MUCH higher and its excessively constant.

I actually like his little morning chirps. He makes these cute little 'two cheep' screeches, followed by kissy noises.

I love sunnies, but I can't imagine having more than one. Unless I got them both at the same time.

I live in an apartment building, which is usually a 'no-no' for suns - but it is VERY well insulated and has fire doors so you can really only hear Skittles if you are in the hallway or in the apartment across the hall with no other sound. There are only two other apts on this floor. The people on the lower floor never hear him.

Luckily, I have a good landlord. As long as Skittles is quiet at night, I'll never have a problem.

If you want another Sun, then why not? I had my Jenday first, liked her so much that I got a Red factor Sun/ Jenday cross ( Sunday conure) Let me just say that I was not prepared for the super sized volume in noise. It doesn't even seem like double the noise or even triple but full on microphone blast! when they both get going. Most days this does not bother me but some days if I am feeling under the weather or engaged in something that needs to get done immediately it can feel a bit irritating.

But some people are fine with loud noises and it doesn't bother them at all. They are just so pretty that I do think they are worth the noise lol

Any suggestions on how to introduce Atti to the new bub once quarantine is finished? And if there is anything I need to watch for given the age difference?

Atti is territorial around people he doesn't know, and downright aggressive around dogs, but I've never put another bird in his 'space', so apart from Echo the tiel (who I can't use as an indication, Echo has brain damage and is a bit strange) Atti's never had another bird around his own cage.

Oh and one other question, Atti sleeps in a breeding box year round, and I'll buy the newbie their own breeding box for their cage to start with, but should both birds bond, and be ready to get jiggy with it, would they view a jolly ball in the same way a breeding box is viewed?

This is a jolly ball by the way:
https://www.parrotrescuecentre.com/jolly-ball-hide-me-medium-10

Atti will grudgingly sleep in his when his breeding box isn't available (I take it out to clean and then let it sit in the sun for a while to dry/stop smelling like musty feathers), but was thinking it was something they could share/or I might buy the new girl her own one. Would it still encourage breeding behaviour? Anything fabric is out of the question, Atti kneads his feet into things like a cat and he's so far had to be cut out of a custom designed log shaped box, three happy huts, and four fabric toys. He is no longer allowed anything that is made of fabric or has small crevices.

I would not suggest in giving them a nesting box to sleep in if they were to become a pair, cause you'll be asking for it if you happen to find just the right partner.

Introduce them slowly away from their cage, birds can be territorial period when another bird invades their territory. Place their cage where they can see each other then take them out onto a neutral territory to introduce them together such as a play stand.

Thanks

Yep breeding boxes only if they are living apart, thats why I was thinking of the jolly ball as an alternative. Atti falls off perches when he attempts to sleep standing up, so he'll still need a platform of some sort for night time. Otherwise he sleeps lying down on the bottom grate of the cage.

I would think that nesting boxes would only encourage breeding behaviors/hormones even if they are alone. Maybe just find a way to create a little nook on the bottom of the cage for them to hideaway in.

Skittys_Daddy said:

I would think that nesting boxes would only encourage breeding behaviors/hormones even if they are alone. Maybe just find a way to create a little nook on the bottom of the cage for them to hideaway in.

Click to expand...

It does!

So, would the jolly ball be appropriate instead? It doesn't create a dark nook at all, but is still enclosed-ish.

And another question... Given that DNA results still aren't back, if the bub I buy is a boy (so I would have two DNA'd males) would that make a bond less likely? And if they did bond, given that they have absolutely no chance of breeding, would a breeding box be acceptable?

I'm not familiar with the jolly ball myself as I've never seen one in person. Based on the photo from the link though, I'd go with something more 'stable'. Something they can easily climb into and out of rather than something dangling. Even cuddle huts that hang are more stable than that jolly ball, but again, I've no experience with that.

As for the bonding. The gender of the birds really doesn't play much part in whether or not the pair bonds - it only matters if you intend to breed them.

I still say try to avoid anything that may stimulate nesting activity or hormones. I would think this would be more of an issue with female birds than males, given the various health issues that can arise from egg laying, but it's not a strictly female bird related problem.

The jolly balls are very stable, I've added a perch underneath Atti's one as he hates things that swing round and it holds it more rigid then the breeding box (which is currently just balanced on two perches, I never got around to attached it to the outside of the cage).

Hmm okies, Atti likes to have erm special time with one of his toys, but that's the only hormonal behaviour he ever displays, so I'm not used to that being an issue. Atti's breeding box is filled to the bottom edge of the entrance with care fresh (its a paper based form of wood chip bedding), with a wad of paper towels under that and then a wad of paper under that and he burrows into it and chews his way down until the paper, paper towels and care fresh are the size of grains of sand and intermixed, at which point I replace it all and we begin again. And he eats in there as well (as you do). He adores soft things, but he adores chewing soft things more and can't be trusted with anything that has the slightest potential to wrap around him, so this was the solution we eventually came up with.

IF the second one you get is a female, there's absolutely no guarantee that they will bond. They can be fickle like people. Your just playing with a gamble to see if they like one another or not. I have a male and a female B&G Macaw, they do NOT like one another. My Conures do NOT like one another either, although we did adopt the second one to be a friend for the first but it didn't work out so well....

Yeah I get that there is no guarantee I was just wondering if the chances of a bond occurring, changed depending on opposite sex pairing or same sex pairing. I am really, honestly, seriously, absolutely, totally, truthfully ONLY hoping for a bond. I am just as happy if they never bond. They can still scream at each other and entertain each other from across the room. And it won't change them being gorgeous sweet personality plus parrots.

I met the baby birds today, they are five weeks old and as cute as pie. I fell in love with one of course and fingers crossed its a girl. If both babies are the same sex, I'll get to take my favourite, but if bubs are a boy and a girl I will be taking whichever is a girl. The guy who put a deposit down before me specifically requested a male. DNA should be back n the next week or so.

Lady luck is apparently shining on me as I found an absolute bargain of a cage, much bigger than I had expected for the price asked, and the colour I wanted . I'd been looking at paying over $500 for a matching cage to Atti's, but this cage was only $150 (gotta love unwanted gifts being sold on unused), so more money to spend on some new toys.