Flying Question

Nmcgowan · Jan 15, 2017

Hello all! I'm back again with an update on Freyja and a question or two.

Freyja is our nine month old Cinnamon GCC. In my previous post we were having an issue with her behavior after having moved her cage and adding an xmas tree. We moved her back to her original position in our living room and the tree has since come down and the behavioral issue from my first post has ceased. No more morning nippiness or screaming. So a big THANK YOU to everyone who commented on that situation.

My fiance and I are now facing a new issue. We've had Freyja since she was around 3 months old. She is very loving and we found that training her was a breeze. She "stepped up" on day one and rarely ever bites. She does beak at us but she is very gentle, never breaking skin. As I type this she is preening through my hair. We spent over an hour conversing with our Avian/Exotic Vet about the pros and cons have keeping a birds flight feathers. We eventually decided to keep the flight feathers and see how things go. Well, they have been coming in and she has started following us around the apartment. She will follow us into the bathroom or our room which is fine.

The big problem here is that she is flying to us while we are on our computer. My fiance and I use the computer for work/gaming. This is the one place that we wish she wouldn't fly to. She has our utmost attention at all other times if she wants it and we need and want to be able to focus on what we are doing at the computer. She immediately tries to go after our hands and fingers on the keyboard and she starts to bite hard at ears and our necks! When I try to get her to step down back on her own perch accross the room she is trying to bite.

I guess my main questions are:

1.) Is there a way to train her not to go near the computer even if we are at it?
2.) Why is she behaving this way in this certain area? I'm assuming its because she is jealous of the lack of attention she may be getting in this area but I may be wrong.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Any other time this bird is an angel and we do not want to have to go back on our word about not clipping her. It hurts my heart even thinking about it. I'm starting to wonder if we should have just kept her clipped all along. Sorry for the long post but I feel that the devil is in the details. Thank you all!

GaleriaGila · Jan 15, 2017

I feel your pain. The Rbird is also free-flighted and goes where he pleases. He resents any interactions with phones, keyboards, cams... I usually have to trick him back into the cage if I have sustained device-related stuff to do.
I'll follow this thread to see what ideas people may have.

Skittys_Daddy · Jan 15, 2017

Skittles is free flighted. If I am home (of which I mostly am), he is out of the cage. Like Abigail said- the same is true for my Skittles. Sometimes I think Skittles and the Rbird are related. lol.

I too spend a lot of time on the PC (naughty me, lol) of which a LOT of it is gaming so I get where you are coming from.

Something I did is I bought one of those shower perches and 'bolted' it to the side of the desk and added a few toys. (I didnt use the suction cups)

He will often sit there and watch me on the PC. Other times, he sits on my shoulder pressed against my neck or climbs down my shirt and sleeps.

If you provide your fid with various 'play areas' around the house, they will find ways to stay occupied. But ultimately, they want to be with you- so having one of those areas close to you by the PC may help.

Aside from that, caging when your gaming is the only reasonable solution I can think of. I would clip wings just for that.

Nmcgowan · Jan 15, 2017

Skittys_Daddy said:
Skittles is free flighted. If I am home (of which I mostly am), he is out of the cage. Like Abigail said- the same is true for my Skittles. Sometimes I think Skittles and the Rbird are related. lol.

I too spend a lot of time on the PC (naughty me, lol) of which a LOT of it is gaming so I get where you are coming from.

Something I did is I bought one of those shower perches and 'bolted' it to the side of the desk and added a few toys. (I didnt use the suction cups)

He will often sit there and watch me on the PC. Other times, he sits on my shoulder pressed against my neck or climbs down my shirt and sleeps.

If you provide your fid with various 'play areas' around the house, they will find ways to stay occupied. But ultimately, they want to be with you- so having one of those areas close to you by the PC may help.

Aside from that, caging when your gaming is the only reasonable solution I can think of. I would clip wings just for that.

I'm assuming you meant "wouldn't" lol! Adding a play area to our desk is definitely do-able and I think worth trying. At one time I had a tall stand with one of those spiral cloth perches hanging from it right behind our computer chair. Its one of these cloth perches that has toys attached. When this prob first became apparent we tried just setting her there but she would jump right back to us so we ended up moving it across the apartment to give her something to fly to at a farther distance for exercise. But I think if she had something to play on while still being able to be close to us and see our faces she may be less inclined to go after our fingers/ears/necks. Thank you for this advice!

Anansi · Jan 15, 2017

Another tactic is to station train Freyja. In fact, doing so in conjunction with Skittys_Daddy's advice might be the optimal solution.

So first thing would be to teach her to stay put on command. You would do this by putting her down on a perch and telling her to stay. (Or whatever term you prefer to use. The one I chose was "wait".) I also use a hand gesture with palm outstretched as a visual aid. Then take a step back and wait a few seconds. If she manages those few seconds without flying to you, step back closer, give her favorite treat and praise her enthusiastically. (Pay close attention to body language, here. If you see her looking like she's about to fly, try to reward her restraint before she jumps.) If, on the other hand, she flies to you before you walk back over to her, tell her no and place her back in the same place. Then repeat the command. Praise and treat once she makes it to several seconds.

As she gets better at doing this you can increase the intervals, first in terms of time, and then in terms of distance. The best time to do this exercise is in between meals, as the treat will be a far stronger motivational tool. (Please note I'm not suggesting that you withhold food as a training tactic. I abhor that practice. I'm simply saying to work on this maybe 3/4 of the way between breakfast and dinner. That way, she'll be more eager for the treats.)

Some birds take longer to learn this than others, so don't get discouraged. Eventually, you should be able to walk away for prolonged periods of time without your bird leaving the stand you've stationed her on.

Once she is at this stage of her development, I'd set up a play/tree stand right near your computer desk with lots of toys and such on it to keep her entertained. Then, once you give her the station command, she'll stay put and keep herself entertained until you are ready to take her.

Jolly, for instance, is quite well station-trained. It's not 100%, but we're definitely talking in the 75-80% bracket.

Another thing is to train him on what is and isn't acceptable. Remember that a computer is naught but an interesting and rather eccentric toy that you and your fiancé, members of her own flock, seem to show great interest in. So it's only natural that she would want to play with it as well. But communicating with Jolly about what is not acceptable is how I stopped him from going to my dinner plate while I'm eating. (I only mention Jolly since he's the one comfortable with flight. Since Maya was never allowed to fledge, she only uses flying as a last resort. So she is content to stay nearby on a tree stand while I eat. It's jolly who had to learn boundaries.) Now he will just sit patiently on my shoulder and stare at me as though willing me to give him a piece. Hahaha!

Shoegoo · Jan 15, 2017

What is a meal or more to the point. What is between meals? My Conure has food available constantly. If he is out, then the only time he returns to the cage is to eat.

Skittys_Daddy · Jan 15, 2017

Nmcgowan said:
Skittys_Daddy said:

Skittles is free flighted. If I am home (of which I mostly am), he is out of the cage. Like Abigail said- the same is true for my Skittles. Sometimes I think Skittles and the Rbird are related. lol.

I too spend a lot of time on the PC (naughty me, lol) of which a LOT of it is gaming so I get where you are coming from.

Something I did is I bought one of those shower perches and 'bolted' it to the side of the desk and added a few toys. (I didnt use the suction cups)

He will often sit there and watch me on the PC. Other times, he sits on my shoulder pressed against my neck or climbs down my shirt and sleeps.

If you provide your fid with various 'play areas' around the house, they will find ways to stay occupied. But ultimately, they want to be with you- so having one of those areas close to you by the PC may help.

Aside from that, caging when your gaming is the only reasonable solution I can think of. I would clip wings just for that.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant "wouldn't" lol! Adding a play area to our desk is definitely do-able and I think worth trying. At one time I had a tall stand with one of those spiral cloth perches hanging from it right behind our computer chair. Its one of these cloth perches that has toys attached. When this prob first became apparent we tried just setting her there but she would jump right back to us so we ended up moving it across the apartment to give her something to fly to at a farther distance for exercise. But I think if she had something to play on while still being able to be close to us and see our faces she may be less inclined to go after our fingers/ears/necks. Thank you for this advice!

Yes, I meant "wouldn't". My bad. lol. Its important they can make eye contact with you.

Also, I look over at Skittles randomly and I talk to him even when gaming- I just let him know I see him and that he is special.

Nmcgowan · Jan 16, 2017

Anansi said:
Another tactic is to station train Freyja. In fact, doing so in conjunction with Skittys_Daddy's advice might be the optimal solution.

So first thing would be to teach her to stay put on command. You would do this by putting her down on a perch and telling her to stay. (Or whatever term you prefer to use. The one I chose was "wait".) I also use a hand gesture with palm outstretched as a visual aid. Then take a step back and wait a few seconds. If she manages those few seconds without flying to you, step back closer, give her favorite treat and praise her enthusiastically. (Pay close attention to body language, here. If you see her looking like she's about to fly, try to reward her restraint before she jumps.) If, on the other hand, she flies to you before you walk back over to her, tell her no and place her back in the same place. Then repeat the command. Praise and treat once she makes it to several seconds.

As she gets better at doing this you can increase the intervals, first in terms of time, and then in terms of distance. The best time to do this exercise is in between meals, as the treat will be a far stronger motivational tool. (Please note I'm not suggesting that you withhold food as a training tactic. I abhor that practice. I'm simply saying to work on this maybe 3/4 of the way between breakfast and dinner. That way, she'll be more eager for the treats.)

Some birds take longer to learn this than others, so don't get discouraged. Eventually, you should be able to walk away for prolonged periods of time without your bird leaving the stand you've stationed her on.

Once she is at this stage of her development, I'd set up a play/tree stand right near your computer desk with lots of toys and such on it to keep her entertained. Then, once you give her the station command, she'll stay put and keep herself entertained until you are ready to take her.

Jolly, for instance, is quite well station-trained. It's not 100%, but we're definitely talking in the 75-80% bracket.

Another thing is to train him on what is and isn't acceptable. Remember that a computer is naught but an interesting and rather eccentric toy that you and your fiancé, members of her own flock, seem to show great interest in. So it's only natural that she would want to play with it as well. But communicating with Jolly about what is not acceptable is how I stopped him from going to my dinner plate while I'm eating. (I only mention Jolly since he's the one comfortable with flight. Since Maya was never allowed to fledge, she only uses flying as a last resort. So she is content to stay nearby on a tree stand while I eat. It's jolly who had to learn boundaries.) Now he will just sit patiently on my shoulder and stare at me as though willing me to give him a piece. Hahaha!

I have been searching the internet for this type of training which led me to create this post because I had not seen anything in relation to "station training". This, in cooperation with Skittles advice, sounds like an excellent way to change this behavior. Thank you so much for the advice. We are taking Freyja today to have her beak and nails trimmed and then we are going to our local pet store to pick up a play area! Thanks again for the help guys!

trimblegirls · Jan 16, 2017

Clipping her wings may not solve the issue. When we first got Tillie, she flew everywhere. We ignorantly thought the solution was to clip. We have other animals that weren't used to her yet and thought it was a good temporary solution until we had her trained. NOPE! When she wants to go to us, she just glides to the floor and walks. Even more dangerous.

Kyoto · Jan 16, 2017

My conure does the same thing! She makes it very difficult to get anything done lol

I just consistently move her off the keyboard and somewhere else, like her window perch or my shoulder. Often I am allowed one hand to type and the other has to be on my lap so she can snuggle. So basically I have to compromise lol but gotta love the little angel <3

Right now:

Anansi · Jan 16, 2017

Shoegoo said:
What is a meal or more to the point. What is between meals? My Conure has food available constantly. If he is out, then the only time he returns to the cage is to eat.

Well, the difference here is that you "Free Feed" your conure. Basically, food is always made available. There is nothing wrong with this approach, and you are not the only member who has adopted it. I just prefer a defined meal approach.

I prefer giving two full, defined meals for three main reasons. For one, I have eclectus parrots and, as such, don't feed any pellets. So feeding in this way avoids spoilage of fresh foods. Secondly, it helps with training. There is more motivation for treats when the treats are offered between the 2 regular meals, which means the birds will be more likely to listen. And third, having two specific meals allows me to more closely monitor exactly how much of each food is being eaten.

For my ekkies, meals consist of fresh veggies, fruits and legumes. Training treats are usually broken pieces of unsalted nuts. And a small serving, maybe 1-2 teaspoons, of seeds makes up their post dinner treat.

Skittys_Daddy · Jan 16, 2017

A lot of it also depends on the type of bird and the type of food. Some birds eat more sporadically throughout the day. Also, active birds (free-flighted for example) WILL eat more because they are burning more calories.

Skittles is fed twice a day, but he always has food available. He is fed Harrisons HP and I give him fresh food when I wake him up and fresh food just before bedtime.

People who feed their fids "fresh" human foods (fruits/veggies), like Anansi- that approach works best because you can't leave fresh food out too long or it spoils.

Because I use "power treats" throughout the day, I use those for 'behavior treats'. He gets them regularly most of the time. BUT when he is misbehaving he does not get them. There have been a few times I've had to withhold the treats and he is not happy so I put him in his cage. He has pretty much associated the 'treats' with being good. So that has worked for my situation.

But like others have said- there is no "one size fits all" solution to this- or any method with anything regarding a fid. Different fids, different situations, different solutions. Some work better than others and some work great for some and not for others.

PickleMeDickles · Jan 17, 2017

Hi,

I feel you pain. I also lamented about wing clipping and decided to let my guys be free flighted. I use a combination of repetitive action and diversion. I have a tree post that is like 15 feet from me. They are placed on that. As soon as they fly, robot mom (show no weakness) calmly gets up and places them back on their station. I also make it a point to really spruce up the play station with lots of different activities to participate with. Make sure you don't show any frustration, your bird will think your adorable.

Plan B is I have a small table top tree by my computer. If a bird is continuously flying they get placed on that perch. Magical goodies appear randomly when they are perched on the big tree or small tree and are quiet.

I know those darn trees are so expensive (I was able to buy both mine used, like new), so I have seen a lot of people hang those long spiral ropes from the ceiling "near" their workstations. You can also hang toys from here and just throw some newspaper under it.

In no way are we perfect. But what would I complain about if my birds weren't causing some kind of craziness? There is still times my head is used for a perch. I try to pick my battles. If I draw even in the war I'll be happy!

Just repetition, repetition, repetition.

Good luck!
Jen

Flying Question

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Advice On Stressed Out Conure!!

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