Parrot Forum Header Left  
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Conures

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 09:08 AM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 5,876
Thanked 6,761 Times in 2,792 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: possibly laying an egg?

Sponsored Links
Glad they gave her the Oxytocin injection; typically if that doesn't do it then they have to go in and get it unfortunately, although if they are seeing in the x-rays that the egg isn't fully-formed, then that's a serious issue that Oxytocin may or may not help, as passing a "soft" egg is almost impossible...Sometimes they can "suck it out", and a lot of the time the more experienced and well-trained Avian Reproductive Specialists will actually use a short-acting Isoflurene gas or short-acting nasal-sedation on the bird, and then they will actually use an Endoscope to enter into the Oviduct and they'll rupture the egg while it's still inside the Oviduct, then vacuum it all out. I don't particularly like this method because of the risk of Peritonitis (bad Bacterial infection inside the abdominal cavity), but if they are very good and very experienced they can do it...

***If your bird does have to have the egg surgically removed, it's important that you know it's not the end of the world, and that she'll likely be just fine. Parrots have surgery every day, hundreds of thousands of them do with no problems at all. Obviously the biggest risks for Parrots having surgery, especially the smaller species, are #1) Blood Loss (more of an issue in smaller species than anything else) and then #2) General Anesthesia risk...However, the drug combinations they're using on birds/parrots get better and better literally every few months. They are frantically doing research on improving Anesthesia for the animals that have the largest issues with it, birds/parrots and guinea pigs being the ones that have the largest problems with it. But typically they do just fine for a quick procedure like removing an egg from the Oviduct. It's quick, it's clean (not much blood loss at all), and the recovery time isn't long...

****I highly suggest that you talk to your CAV about putting your bird on hormone treatment to shut-down her reproductive system from this point forward, because once a bird has a problem like this laying an egg, they tend to have problems the rest of their life laying them, and what you don't want is for her to have to be opened-up again in the same place, as the risk gets greater each time they have to operate on a bird for the same thing, and their abdominal-walls become extremely weak if opened-up more than once and they end-up almost always Herniating themselves and then require metal-mesh sutures to literally hold them together because their abdominal-wall muscles/tissue/skin is so friable. Soooooo....I would definitely not want to go through this with her again, and the best way to avoid this is to to "shut it down"!

***I highly recommend the newer Deslorelin implants way, way more than the older, less effective and with more side-effects hormone injections with the "Depot" drugs, such as Lupron or Depot Provera...The older "Depot" hormones tend to not work, they have horrible side-effects in some patients, and there is no way to reverse them if there is a bad side-effect that your bird has, once they get the injection they are going to be stuck with the hormone in their system for 3 months or 6 months, depending on what they were given. I have seen Lupron and ALL of the other "Depot" hormone injections fail many, many times where the bird just kept laying egg after egg after egg, and they also became extremely anxious and aggressive from the injections to-boot...

**In-contrast, the newer Deslorelin implants work almost all the time in almost every bird, causing complete chemical-castration and shutting-down their reproductive systems completely with no ill-effects. And if there is an issue they can simply remove the implant which will reverse the effects. The Deslorelin implants are good for 3 months or 6 months (the 6-month is the one most-often used), they are the size of a millet seed and are basically injected with a syringe just like any other injection (they give your bird a lidocaine injection first to numb her breast or back tissue). The whole thing takes about 5 minutes from start to finish, and then they usually don't become at all hormonal again unless you don't keep them on it. And in 6 months they simply inject another Deslorelin implant, no need to remove the old one, it's absorbed by their body...

Do your research online about both the Deslorelin implants and then also the Depot-injections like Lupron, and do your comparisons, then talk to your CAV about it. You don't want this to happen again obviously...
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-09-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-09-2019), SunnyGirl (01-09-2019)
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 10:00 AM
SunnyGirl's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
sun conure - Sunny
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jesenice, Slowenia, Europe
Thanks: 162
Thanked 405 Times in 143 Posts
SunnyGirl is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

hi, thank you for the long answer

the vet did explain the surgery part to me as well as I could understand it... I'm just very anxious when it comes to any type of surgery at all, I know it's absolutelly no comparison, but I ruined my knww and the surgery messed up my whole hormonal system, my head and the knee is still only halfway ok, even after 15 years and lots of rehab and gym... also yes, I know that thousands surgeries are performed every day on people and animals and go really really well, but this is where my anxiety starts acting up reeeeeally badly, this one thing that could go wrong... I know very well it's stupid and I'm just seeing ghosts, that it's only in my head, but darn does it feel all too real...

also yes, we've talked about the implants to prevent any eggs, they would need to redo it 3 times every year and they are expensive, but if I can spent as much as I do on the toys and food, I'll do this too, her health is just too important for me... I'm not sure of which kind the vet uses, I'd need to ask, also on the 6month option as I wouldn't want to drag her in as often and put her under stress and anesthesia too often...

well it's not as much to never have an egg at all anymore but about not having anymore issues with too big eggs and possibly eggbinding or worse... I could handle a normal egg if I just found it on the cage floor and the bird ok (yeah I would have freaked anyway, but not like this), but what has happened just freaked me out too much to just go with the flow and not do anything about it but hope it doesn't happen again so yes, I am considering these implants a lot even if it drains my wallet into oblivion... she's only 7, she could easily be with me for at least the next 20 years and I plan on doing everything I can to make that happen!

it's so amazing to have support like this, especially from people who understand what it is to be bonded to your pet this much and/or who have gone through this and know what to do
__________________
Home is where the bird is.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SunnyGirl For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-09-2019), EllenD (01-09-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-09-2019)
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 10:16 AM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 5,876
Thanked 6,761 Times in 2,792 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: possibly laying an egg?

You don't have to explain, we all understand exactly why you're worried about surgery and this whole thing in-general...It's just that a lot of times bird owners hear the word "anesthesia" and they immediately think "My bird is going to die", and I just want to reassure you that this isn't the case AT ALL. Hopefully it doesn't come to that anyway, hopefully she just lays this big egg and comes home. But if she doesn't, that doesn't mean there are no options...

And yes, the Deslorelin implants aren't "cheap", that I realize. I'm not sure what the Depot injections such as Lupron cost, but I'm sure they're not cheap either, and I'd rather you spend your money on what actually works best...Yes, discuss what type of hormone-therapy he usually does, whether it's an implant or an injection, and if it's an implant ask what kind and what the dosage is, because the dosage is what determines the length of the treatment. Sometimes they have to do the shorter/lower dose implant because of the bird's weight, so that's another thing you need to discuss with your CAV...All I can say about that is that the cost of Deslorelin implants for a few years is going to be less than one surgery, I'm sure of that...They do make your life a lot easier and with a lot less worrying about your baby...

Keep us updated on how she's doing...I'm hoping to see an update with a photo of a huge Conure egg in it!!!
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-09-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-09-2019), SunnyGirl (01-09-2019)
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 10:58 AM
SunnyGirl's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
sun conure - Sunny
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jesenice, Slowenia, Europe
Thanks: 162
Thanked 405 Times in 143 Posts
SunnyGirl is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

well anesthesia is a word that really is bad to me, it messed me up too much to trust the thing at all, sadly... not just in the combination with a bird...

well he didn't even mention injections at all, so I'm not sure they have them at all, but after reading about the implants, I'm deffinitelly going with them...

I'll deffinitelly keep you all updated as soon as I hear from the vet... I'll ask for the ex-rays if I can have them or something but I don't really care about the egg, even if it would be fun to have the huge egg shell on the shelve above the tv...


update: just talked to the vet, sadly nothing big changed other than that the egg is now fully hard as it needs to be... I need to call again friday morning to see, cause if nothing happens till then he'll need to open her up on friday, as he's going out of state for saturday and sunday (ugh I hate this part) and to leave the egg inside till monday wiuld be so so very wrong...

I got busy and redid her cage setup, added a more perches and toys, will also hang her cage cover differently, from the ceiling down (we got a hook up there that was meant for hanging a potted flower or something and is still waiting to be used), just need to buy enough fabric and curtain hooks...
__________________
Home is where the bird is.

Last edited by SunnyGirl; 01-09-2019 at 11:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SunnyGirl For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-09-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-09-2019)
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 11:42 AM
Aratingettar's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Sun t̶e̶r̶r̶o̶r̶i̶s̶t̶ Conure Cytrynka (F), Peach faced lovebird Fiona (F), Peach faced lovebird Fionek (M)
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Poland
Thanks: 808
Thanked 980 Times in 344 Posts
Aratingettar is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

@EllenD I'm greatly impressed by your knowledge on Parrot's health and medical procedures and all.. It's strange, but as you say it it seems... reassuring?.. (not sure if it's the right word here). Kind of "These things can be controlled" feeling.


@SunnyGirl I can only imagine what you're going through, and must admit I wouldn't like to be in your position. But it seems that Sunny's Vet is a person that knows the procedures.. initially, after EllenD wrote about the implant, I thought to myself "OK it can be _THAT EASY_ in the US, but what about Europe, and especially the ex-communist countries which are still less developed than the "Old western countries". But your Vet knows it and even suggests it, and that means they're "up to date".
I believe that you must be freaking out inside, I would that, too, knowing Cytrynka could possibly need surgery. But, as EllenD wrote, many birds have done it previously, and are in great shape and of good health.

But hopefully, things will work out for Sunny and you without the need for surgery. Which is what I do wish to both of you Meanwhile, as Christa wrote, try to find something that will occupy your mind. It's not easy, but definitely "doable".
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Aratingettar For This Useful Post:
Laurasea Supporting Member (01-09-2019), SunnyGirl (01-09-2019)
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2019, 01:11 PM
Laurasea's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Ta-dah 5yr (F )Turquoise cinnamon GCC, Neptune (M) blue quaker, Penny (F )rescue green quaker, Cloudy and Clear(M's) parakeets, Burt The Bird (F) GCC of 17 wonderful years passed 2018
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Florida
Thanks: 8,898
Thanked 6,430 Times in 2,241 Posts
Laurasea is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

Thanks for updating us. We are all rooting for you both! Make sure you find out who the cover veterinarian is before yours goes out of town.
__________________
May your joy be as deep as the ocean, and your sorrows as light as the foam.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Laurasea For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-09-2019), ChristaNL (01-09-2019), SunnyGirl (01-09-2019)
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2019, 06:56 AM
SunnyGirl's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
sun conure - Sunny
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jesenice, Slowenia, Europe
Thanks: 162
Thanked 405 Times in 143 Posts
SunnyGirl is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

current update.... no big change sadly, she seems to be feeling ok, warmed up to the vet and nurses, is letting them pet her and carry her around on theit hand or shoulder, she is eating and drinking normally... the vet will be back sunday afternoon, sadly no vet will be present till then as there are only 2 avian vets in the whole freaking country... but there will be his doughter present all the time, she's a vet technician and Sunny seems to like her... we decided to wait till sunday as she seems to be doing well... I just don't dare to take her back home as I might mess things up and panic and just make it worse...

either way it's a very very hard decision, it breaks my heart to even be in the position to need to make a decision like this... but I am trying to stay hopefull and positive about it, I know that nothing will change if I stay at home on my couch and cry every day, but it's hard...

has anyone had any experience with similar things or has heard/read anything about the egg being in there for so long without the bird getting eggbound or having problems? it's just so weird...
__________________
Home is where the bird is.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SunnyGirl For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-11-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-11-2019)
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2019, 10:28 AM
Laurasea's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Ta-dah 5yr (F )Turquoise cinnamon GCC, Neptune (M) blue quaker, Penny (F )rescue green quaker, Cloudy and Clear(M's) parakeets, Burt The Bird (F) GCC of 17 wonderful years passed 2018
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Florida
Thanks: 8,898
Thanked 6,430 Times in 2,241 Posts
Laurasea is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

Most of us don't know about the egg until our females lay them. Yours wasn't fully developed when you first went in. Now it's developed, but she isn't actively trying to lay it yet....
So she is stable, until she is trying to pass it out...I guess the big concern is how big is it, and does the vet think she can lay it on her own?
Sometimes they wait till it's dropping, then do anesthesia and remove it from the outside, without surgically opening the abdomen. They can also open the abdomen surgically and do it that way. Depends on so many things..
I've only had experience with egg laying once. My GCC I had for ten years thinking she was a boy. I got my second GCC and had them both DNA tested. Before the results came back, the excitement of the new GCC caused my boy (lol) to lay eggs. After the shock of the first egg, I could feel each egg before she laid them. She laid four. I just removed them as she laid them, most were broken on the bottom of the cage. Then for seven years she never laid again. Ta-dah my current girl had never laid in eight years. But I'm am worrying that with Neptune, she might.....
So your girl is safe now. And hopefully she will be able to lay on her own. It don't know if it would help to provide her with a box? To make her more comfortable to lay it? Since you know eggs are in there already???
__________________
May your joy be as deep as the ocean, and your sorrows as light as the foam.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Laurasea For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-11-2019), SunnyGirl (01-11-2019)
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-11-2019, 12:33 PM
EllenD's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: State College, PA
Thanks: 5,876
Thanked 6,761 Times in 2,792 Posts
EllenD will become famous soon enough
Re: possibly laying an egg?

It's not uncommon for them to carry an egg around for quite a while if it's large. The main factors in determining whether it's "too long" are #1) Is the egg in the Oviduct or was it deposited into the free-abdomen; obviously if the egg didn't drop into the Oviduct then surgery isn't an option; I'm assuming that your bird's egg is in the Oviduct since she had an x-ray done and they're waiting for her to pass it, so that's good...and #2) Is the bird displaying any outward symptoms of pain, anorexia, or any neurological issues like being disoriented, going in and out of consciousness, losing any feeling in their legs (due to the egg pushing on the sciatic nerve), any bleeding from the cloaca/vent, etc. As long as the bird is awake and alert, is eating and drinking normally, isn't showing any signs of pain or numbness in their legs, etc., then it's okay to wait for the egg to pass...What typically "forces the issue" is when either the egg ruptures/breaks inside of the bird's Oviduct and then you've got a huge risk for egg-Peritonitis, which is fatal if not taken care of by evacuating the remnants from the Oviduct with a vacuum, flushing with antibiotic-fluids, and then putting the bird on a round of antibiotics to fight-off any bacterial infections from starting, OR usually what "forces the issue" is when another egg is formed and moves into the Oviduct...That's when you'll typically see the bird stop eating, start showing signs of pain, their legs go numb, they start becoming very neurological and disoriented, and then that calls for surgery to get the egg out of there before the extreme pressure causes damage to the Oviduct and surrounding structures/organs.

As long as your bird is still acting normally, eating normally, walking normally, and is not neurological, then it's okay to keep waiting..The problem is that you have no idea when another egg is going to form and make it's way into the Oviduct...

***Are they still giving her injections of Oxytocin? They should be giving her Oxytocin injections at least every other day, as the one they gave her days ago will have long wore-off now...And are they doing any other things to try to relax her abdominal/pelvic muscles and promote passing the egg, such as putting her in a small room with a running shower/sink full of tons of steam, and then allowing her to sit in a container of very warm water that covers her vent completely and also goes up over her lower abdomen/pelvis? Usually the CAV will give regular injections of Oxytocin either every 12 hours or every 24 hours and then a couple of hours after giving the most recent injection of Oxytocin they will then put the bird into a very small room with running hot-water creating a ton of steam while having the bird sit/lay in a container of very warm water covering her vent and lower abdomen...The other thing they should be doing besides the regular Oxytocin injections is creating a very small, dark, warm place for her to be staying in full-time that contains some type of "nesting material". This greatly influences her hormones to go nuts, makes them extremely "broody", and in-combination with the Oxytocin injections usually does encourage them both physically and psychologically to lay the egg...So if they are keeping her inside of some type of Brooder, or better-yet a small Incubator that is both heated and gives her oxygen, then they should create a "nesting" environment inside of the Incubator, using either a blanket, towels, or simply "nesting materials" like bedding/shredded paper, etc., and then also covering all windows of the Incubator/Brooder so that it's not only creating a very small, dark, warm "nesting" area for her, but also giving her complete PRIVACY, which is very, very important...It's the same concept as creating a small, dark, warm box with blankets/towels/nesting material like hay and placing it in a quiet area that is away from all people and other animals, thus giving privacy to a pregnant female mammal, such as when trying to get a pregnant rabbit, cat, dog, guinea pig, etc. to birth their babies. So hopefully they have her incubator nice and cozy, very warm, full of things for her to use as "nesting materials", and have the incubator covered-up with towels/sheets so that it's dark and so that she can't see people constantly looking at her or walking by her. It's okay to lift the sheets over the incubator to check on her once every hour or so, to make sure she's not in distress, but I hope they aren't "bugging her" constantly or keeping her in an incubator that is out in the open of the veterinary office, with people constantly walking by her or messing with her, and with other birds and animals around her, and that they do have the incubator completely covered-up so to give her privacy and to make her feel safe, secure, and like she has privacy...It's quite possible for pregnant animals or birds carrying eggs to purposely not want to lay their egg or go into labor because they don't feel that it's a safe place to have their babies or for their egg to be...
__________________
"Dance Like Nobody's Watching".
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to EllenD For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-11-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-11-2019), SunnyGirl (01-11-2019)
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:53 AM
SunnyGirl's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
sun conure - Sunny
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Jesenice, Slowenia, Europe
Thanks: 162
Thanked 405 Times in 143 Posts
SunnyGirl is on a distinguished road
Re: possibly laying an egg?

I have no idea what my fluff is thinking, but she just won't pass that egg but at the same time isn't eggboung either... she is doing fine and is entertaining the whole clinic, the nurses love her (she let's them cuddle her and carry her around on their shoulders, she even demonstrates what good of a flyer she is) so the vet is still waiting and I'm going down there for a few hours today, it might help the most if I'm there and she can spend some time with me... I just don't understand the whole thing anymore
__________________
Home is where the bird is.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to SunnyGirl For This Useful Post:
Aratingettar (01-14-2019), ChristaNL (01-14-2019), Laurasea Supporting Member (01-14-2019)
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Conures
Remove Ads

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Some diy help possibly? Skittles2016 Conures 8 10-26-2016 04:15 PM
Possibly Bonding? Sc0tt Conures 1 11-23-2012 12:01 AM
Possibly my new girl Shelbyrenee1329 Cockatoos 0 11-04-2012 01:52 AM
Can he/she possibly know me already? Cliffordsmom Congo & Timneh Greys 9 03-27-2012 02:23 AM
I'm Possibly Going To Need Help... Ratzy Budgies/Parakeets 8 08-15-2011 01:18 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.