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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:24 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

IMO, the biggest and most non-negotiable risk is non-stick pots, pans, bakeware or other products that contain teflon (including some appliances). Teflon toxicosis is deadly and there is no way to tell if a pot/pan/other is off gassing until the bird drops dead. Even if you've been using the item for years without issue. Finding bird safe cookware is as simple as switching to uncoated stainless steel (numerous options in all price ranges) or cast iron (can go from dirt cheap to the fancier and costly 'Le Creuset' enameled type). Some people use the newer ceramic coatings, but I personally don't want to replace my pots and pans every few years due to chipped coatings, even if they aren't harmful to birds. A quality set of stainless or cast iron will lat a lifetime.

Honestly, I've not heard of birds dropping dead immediately from a candle or room spray type product, but using them often around your bird can cause long term respiratory issues. Just like smoking one cigarette won't give you cancer or COPD, but smoking a pack a day for 60 years probably will. Candles, room fresheners and other strongly scented products are the next major items of concern IMO. I think most people are smart enough to move their bird out of the room if they need to use strong, unpleasant smelling chemicals like bleach etc... every so often (you should be able to do most tasks with vinegar/water/baking soda though) but the stuff that is meant to "smell good" is used constantly and is dangerous for birds to be exposed to constantly. Theres no telling what chemicals are in products like fabreeze or a chocolate cupcake scented candle or whatever. In fact, I argue humans need to be wary of such products too. There is a reason they used to use canaries in coal mines- they'd drop dead of toxic gases before humans would giving people time to evacuate. Consider smelly products being harmful to birds a modern day canary in the coal mine situation.
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Last edited by Kiwibird; 01-07-2020 at 07:27 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:30 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

I remember I read what the Association of Avian Vets shared about how birds die from exposure: their lungs start bleeding and they die within 20 minutes, so by the time you see them react, it's already too late.

I'm quite risk-adverse, tbh. I know people who have used products that are listed as dangerous, but anecdotally have no problem. Until one day years down the road, their birds (plural) die from something they did every single day.

I know I couldn't handle that feeling of guilt.

I honestly clean most of my house with F10 (veterinary-grade disinfectant that's safe to use around birds). Anytime we actually use man-made chemicals (we're talking mopping the floor), Cairo is out of the house for the full day (and that's including hours after I have rinsed the floor multiple times). So that's my level of risk management.

If you feel comfortable with taking risks and can handle that feeling of anything goes wrong, then that's your personal decision. I can't do it personally.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:32 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwibird View Post
IMO, the biggest and most non-negotiable risk is non-stick pots, pans, bakeware or other products that contain teflon (including some appliances). Teflon toxicosis is deadly and there is no way to tell if a pot/pan/other is off gassing until the bird drops dead. Even if you've been using the item for years without issue. Finding bird safe cookware is as simple as switching to uncoated stainless steel (numerous options in all price ranges) or cast iron (can go from dirt cheap to the fancier and costly 'Le Creuset' enameled type). Some people use the newer ceramic coatings, but I personally don't want to replace my pots and pans every few years due to chipped coatings, even if they aren't harmful to birds. A quality set of stainless or cast iron will lat a lifetime.

Honestly, I've not heard of birds dropping dead immediately from a candle or room spray type product, but using them often around your bird can cause long term respiratory issues. Just like smoking one cigarette won't give you cancer or COPD, but smoking a pack a day for 60 years probably will. Candles, room fresheners and other strongly scented products are the next major items of concern IMO. I think most people are smart enough to move their bird out of the room if they need to use strong, unpleasant smelling chemicals like bleach etc... every so often (you should be able to do most tasks with vinegar/water/baking soda though) but the stuff that is meant to "smell good" is used constantly and is dangerous for birds to be exposed to constantly. Theres no telling what chemicals are in products like fabreeze or a chocolate cupcake scented candle or whatever. In fact, I argue humans need to be wary of such products too. There is a reason they used to use canaries in coal mines- they'd drop dead of toxic gases before humans would giving people time to evacuate. Consider smelly products being harmful to birds a modern day canary in the coal mine situation.
Teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs are insanely dangerous...the others are not healthy, but not necessarily an instant death sentence--although it is a REAL risk.
The thing is, with teflon and related chemicals, there is none of that wiggle room once it off-gasses. It is too unpredictable to trust and it is VERY potent.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2020, 07:43 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

Quote: Originally Posted by July View Post
Interesting that already there are conflicting answers. Precisely why I asked in such a candid manner. I assumed beforehand that it largely depended on frequency and proximity, as with any pollutant effect on any creature. I certainly donít plan on spraying Febreeze in the birdís face or soaking their toys in bleach, I just wanted to get a better idea of what kind of limits to establish. For example, the candles. If I burn a candle for two hours in the living room while we have guests over and the bird is in his ďhideawayĒ cage down in the basement... I have some people saying, ďNo, absolutely notĒ and some saying itís fine. (Across different websites and forums, etc.)


Birds are flock animals-they need to be with their flock (you). Stashing him in the basement when you have company is likely to make him unhappy and bring on unwanted behaviors.

I used to burn smelly stuff in my house constantly. Loved it. Have not used any candles, wax melts, etc. since I brought Bumble home and I donít miss it. In fact now I find that my eyes start to burn when Iím around strong fragrances.


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Old 01-07-2020, 07:46 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

burning candles or spraying febreeze constitutes a real risk of instant death?? Even on first exposure? You’d be hard pressed to support that statement. You even just said they were long term concerns?

One should be careful of such overarching, unsubstantiated claims.
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:57 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

I personally have 4 GCCs. After the first, I ditched the no stick pans and bought stainless steel. I have never looked back.

If you are looking for alternative cleaners, look no further than Mrs Meyers. If you buy on Amazon, the prices are not bad. Especially for the price of mind.



There are lot of things you donít think of that can be harmful to the birds like burning dinner as well. Just use common sense and get the birds away until the odor dissipates. If you must burn candles or put on perfume, make sure they are not near. Use a little common sense and your little dinosaur will live a happy, healthy life.





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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2020, 08:03 PM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

Quote: Originally Posted by chris-md View Post
burning candles or spraying febreeze constitutes a real risk of instant death?? Even on first exposure? You’d be hard pressed to support that statement. You even just said they were long term concerns?

One should be careful of such overarching, unsubstantiated claims.
I also NEVER said a bird would DIE on first exposure..It is like unprotected *you know* or chain-smoking....Not even sure if you are talking to me.
I'd never suggest you try it with your bird....would you risk it?
If you would, we are very different in our life choices-- Noodles is like a kid to me. If I for 1 second thought that I may have caused her death (or gradual decline) I would be VERY upset...Understatement of the year.
I could volunteer a lot of information, but basically, I believe in protection of any kind--I do not take risks if the benefit would be less than the loss...That applies to everything in my life..

BUT--FABREEZE KILLED MY ASSISTANT'S BIRD!!!! NOT MAKING THIS UP!!! It was confirmed--she volunteered this to the class without me even knowing--all I said was, air fresheners can kill birds/make sure you know WHY a bird is dead when it dies.

It WAS the air freshener for her daughter's birds and it didn't even take a CAV to confirm it...

It took 3 years.

Last edited by noodles123; 01-08-2020 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:35 AM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

Truly great topic that is loosing its direction and its informational base!

The foundation of an argument for or against doing 'whatever' is just how quickly the effects display... The longer the time period, the less one believes after all it didn't cause blindness, skin irritation, loss of hearing, all the way to death that moment. But, we have found that time and exposure will combined to cause an effect.

The sad reality is that with few exceptions, most things take longer than a single moderate to light dose.

Over the last fifty plus years there has been vast changes in what and how we cook and what we eat. Our homes have undergone massive changes in construction and reconstruction to such a great degree that our new home 'requires' an air exchange system, whereas our past home leaked air to such a rate that still air rarely occurred...

So what!!!

Point being, the vast majority of the things that we know will cause death in birds can be, with little effort, simply avoided. What happens when we eliminate that long list of problem things?

Well in the vast majority of cases Nothing!

That all said, we are living in a heavy chemical world that like it or not, our Parrots and us Humans are not designed to deal with on a daily bases.

Once again; So What!!!

The vast majority we do not need and have because of marketing tricks that have us buying hundreds of dollars of Stuff!

Candles and other like products are the most common cause of apartment and home fires.

Etc, etc, etc...
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:45 AM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

I am appreciating this discussion... everybody is discussing openly and passionately, and nobody is taking their toys and going home in a huff. Thanks, all.

I am a self-acknowledged paranoiac when it comes to things I love: I am endlessly, obnoxiously worried and worrisome about hazards, risky behaviors, and things that go bump in the night. My ol' man is quite the devil-may-care opposite whose favorite expression is "nothing's gonna happen!" The bird takes after HIM!! And it's pretty much been YOURS TRULY against THOSE TWO, for a long time.

Anyway, I enjoyed reading this thread.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:07 AM
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Re: Literally everything is deadly?

The world is enough of a chaotic, confusing place without making it worse on yourself.


Don't use chemical laden sprays around or in the immediate vicinity of your bird. Ditto for burning substances that produce fumes and/or smoke. Don't bring them into areas where those things have been used recently. Wipe things down with hot water, salt, lemon juice, vinegar. Use the Meyers products, or 7th generation, or any of the other now innumerable brands that purport to be free of PFOAs/Sulfates/harsh chemicals/added scents/etc...and contact manufacturer's with your concerns. Live your life and enjoy the company of your avian companion.
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