Anti-bite harness

AzurZafir

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Hello
I’ve seen this anti bite harness for parrots ( I have two GCCs) and I wondered if they were really anti bite or this is just clickbait. It’s on eBay here’s the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

And another one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

My conures hate being touched but I want to take them outside but it’s impossible like this so if these were easier it would be great but if not I’ll have to prepare for lots of work and biting. I would try to make this work anyways. So is this click bait or real?

Julianna
 

noodles123

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Hello
I’ve seen this anti bite harness for parrots ( I have two GCCs) and I wondered if they were really anti bite or this is just clickbait. It’s on eBay here’s the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

And another one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

My conures hate being touched but I want to take them outside but it’s impossible like this so if these were easier it would be great but if not I’ll have to prepare for lots of work and biting. I would try to make this work anyways. So is this click bait or real?

Julianna

I haven't looked yet- but if you force a bird into a harness, you will do superb damage to any trust you may have built. If this is to prevent them from biting you, it's a mistake. If you are pushing a bird to the point that they feel the need to bite, you are ignoring all of their signals BEFORE that and then disregarding their last resort attempt to communicate loud and clear.
You need to build trust with your bird so that biting isn't an issue. Then you can start to think about harness training etc. They are likely scared of you (if biting when you try to touch them) and if that is the case, you could quite literally cause them to stroke out or something by trying to force them into a harness.
Also- going outside if often frightening for birds, so if your birds don't have that bond with you, they might be scared to be outside with you, EVEN if you had a magical harness that you could get on them without scaring them.

How long have you had them? Will they step up for you?
If you are getting bitten, you aren't paying attention or you are rushing contact etc or misunderstanding some dynamic. Getting bitten shouldn't be a daily thing with a bird unless you inadvertently reinforced the biting (e.g., accidentally trained your bird to bite). If you go to touch your bird and it acts like it's going to bite, you need to stop pushing because it's not ready for that kind of contact. There are exceptions to that rule (for instance, a bird that has a strong bond with you that bites whenever it thinks it's time to go back in its cage)-- in that case you still wouldn't want to use physical force....the reason for the bite is different in that example...

Yours really sounds like you need to build trust.
 
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AzurZafir

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No I didn’t mean it like that. I meant I will try to bond with them even more so they won’t be afraid of things touching them. To train them to be more comfortable with hands and stuff. I’m definitely not planning to push something. I’m way to afraid to lose their trust just because of a harness.
 
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AzurZafir

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Oh and also it’s for taking walks with them outside. They don’t really bite me now but they have once.
 

noodles123

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So can you pick them up (step up) without being bitten and do they generally step up when asked?
 
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AzurZafir

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Hello
I’ve seen this anti bite harness for parrots ( I have two GCCs) and I wondered if they were really anti bite or this is just clickbait. It’s on eBay here’s the link:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

And another one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Anti-bite-...a=1&pg=2332490&_trksid=p2332490.c100891.m5206

My conures hate being touched but I want to take them outside but it’s impossible like this so if these were easier it would be great but if not I’ll have to prepare for lots of work and biting. I would try to make this work anyways. So is this click bait or real?

Julianna

I haven't looked yet- but if you force a bird into a harness, you will do superb damage to any trust you may have built. If this is to prevent them from biting you, it's a mistake. If you are pushing a bird to the point that they feel the need to bite, you are ignoring all of their signals BEFORE that and then disregarding their last resort attempt to communicate loud and clear.
You need to build trust with your bird so that biting isn't an issue. Then you can start to think about harness training etc. They are likely scared of you (if biting when you try to touch them) and if that is the case, you could quite literally cause them to stroke out or something by trying to force them into a harness.
Also- going outside if often frightening for birds, so if your birds don't have that bond with you, they might be scared to be outside with you, EVEN if you had a magical harness that you could get on them without scaring them.

How long have you had them? Will they step up for you?
If you are getting bitten, you aren't paying attention or you are rushing contact etc or misunderstanding some dynamic. Getting bitten shouldn't be a daily thing with a bird unless you inadvertently reinforced the biting (e.g., accidentally trained your bird to bite). If you go to touch your bird and it acts like it's going to bite, you need to stop pushing because it's not ready for that kind of contact. There are exceptions to that rule (for instance, a bird that has a strong bond with you that bites whenever it thinks it's time to go back in its cage)-- in that case you still wouldn't want to use physical force....the reason for the bite is different in that example...

Yours really sounds like you need to build trust.

They are not afraid outside because they have been took outside in their cage before and they are used to it and not scared.
You have a point I’ll try and create a stronger bond. They just don’t like being touched. Maybe you could tell me some more how to bond with them so they are comfortable with me touching them? They do step up though.
 

noodles123

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Okay, so is your goal to be able to touch them more easily, or get a harness on them? I know they sound like the same thing, but the situations are quite different. For instance, I can touch my bird whenever/wherever (not that I do touch her wherever, because that leads to hormonal issues, but if I want to/have to, I can). If I try to get her in a harness, forget it...
The way you train, based on your goal, is going to be different.
If your birds will step up for you now etc, forcing them into a harness could take you backwards and stop them from trusting you.
Some birds just don't like being touched...you will need to do this in baby steps.

Can you pet their heads without being bitten?
 
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AzurZafir

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Okay, so is your goal to be able to touch them more easily, or get a harness on them? I know they sound like the same thing, but the situations are quite different. For instance, I can touch my bird whenever/wherever (not that I do touch her wherever, because that leads to hormonal issues, but if I want to/have to, I can). If I try to get her in a harness, forget it...
The way you train, based on your goal, is going to be different.
If your birds will step up for you now etc, forcing them into a harness could take you backwards and stop them from trusting you.
Okay. So my goal is to... yes to be able to touch them. Wow. I just realised that really that was my goal and the harness was an excuse. Wow thank you really. I just want to be able to handle them. So you’re right this thread is actually of no use for me (except now I know what I want) ;):D:eek:
 
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AzurZafir

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Okay, so is your goal to be able to touch them more easily, or get a harness on them? I know they sound like the same thing, but the situations are quite different. For instance, I can touch my bird whenever/wherever (not that I do touch her wherever, because that leads to hormonal issues, but if I want to/have to, I can). If I try to get her in a harness, forget it...
The way you train, based on your goal, is going to be different.
If your birds will step up for you now etc, forcing them into a harness could take you backwards and stop them from trusting you.
Some birds just don't like being touched...you will need to do this in baby steps.

Can you pet their heads without being bitten?

Well I tried petting the head once but I was quicker. He would have bitten me.
 

noodles123

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Lol-- so start really small-- don't try to sneak attack touch them lol. Approach and read the signals. Have you tried clicker training? Birdtricks.com has a bunch of really good videos on Youtube about it.
When you tried to touch, was your bird on the cage or elsewhere? Since they step up, I would recommend training them with their cage out of sight. You want to take this very slow and do a bit each day, but not too much and do not make it stressful. It should be very positive for them. So think about the steps to touching them-1. you start to extend your hand.. at some point you will probably get a head jerk of some indicator. You want to stop short of that point and reward (you don't want to push it so far that you get that head jerk)---stop right where you know they are going to tolerate it, click and reward. Do that for a few days--- not past where they are comfortable. You want to get them used to just for allowing you to put your hand nearby (not in the same way you would for step-ups, b/c that will be confusing)-- they key is not to put it so close that they feel threatened or start showing threatened body language, because you don't want to reward that, and you don't want to scare them. I am doing a bad job of explaining this. I will try to find a video.

This might be too much for your birds if they really don't like being touched, but it kind of shows what I am talking about with the arm--only she does it all at once because she has worked with this bird a lot :

Also- remember, even if your bird allows you to eventually touch it all over, you should only ever pet on the head and neck for hormonal (and subsequently, behavioral) reasons.
[ame="https://youtu.be/f9NgDt1brVI"]Teaching a MACAW To Let You PET IT! - YouTube[/ame]

Here is another video that shows when she is rewarding-- she doesn't do it when there are signs of aggression. She waits to click until head is level etc. She also has a really good feel for this bird--- you could scare some birds by jumping into something like this TOO fast:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7P6PbiKFKQ"]How to Train a Parrot to Let You Pet It | Morgan The Macaw - YouTube[/ame] again- if the bird were showing greater fear or aggression, she wouldn't keep messing with it-- so this wouldn't work for all birds initially. She's good enough at reading the signals to know how far she can push these birds without legit upsetting them. That will be different across birds.

You will probably have to break this down into smaller steps DEPENDING on how much your bird hates being touched, but the point is, not to push them too far past what is comfortable---you don't want to harm trust or stress them out, and you want training to feel positive so that they enjoy it a bit.
 
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AzurZafir

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Lol-- so start really small-- don't try to sneak attack touch them lol. Approach and read the signals. Have you tried clicker training? Birdtricks.com has a bunch of really good videos on Youtube about it.
When you tried to touch, was your bird on the cage or elsewhere? Since they step up, I would recommend training them with their cage out of sight. You want to take this very slow and do a bit each day, but not too much and do not make it stressful. It should be very positive for them. So think about the steps to touching them-1. you start to extend your hand.. at some point you will probably get a head jerk of some indicator. You want to stop short of that point and reward (you don't want to push it so far that you get that head jerk)---stop right where you know they are going to tolerate it, click and reward. Do that for a few days--- not past where they are comfortable. You want to get them used to just for allowing you to put your hand nearby (not in the same way you would for step-ups, b/c that will be confusing)-- they key is not to put it so close that they feel threatened or start showing threatened body language, because you don't want to reward that, and you don't want to scare them. I am doing a bad job of explaining this. I will try to find a video.

This might be too much for your birds if they really don't like being touched, but it kind of shows what I am talking about with the arm--only she does it all at once because she has worked with this bird a lot :

Also- remember, even if your bird allows you to eventually touch it all over, you should only ever pet on the head and neck for hormonal (and subsequently, behavioral) reasons.
Teaching a MACAW To Let You PET IT! - YouTube

Here is another video that shows when she is rewarding-- she doesn't do it when there are signs of aggression. She waits to click until head is level etc. She also has a really good feel for this bird--- you could scare some birds by jumping into something like this TOO fast:

How to Train a Parrot to Let You Pet It | Morgan The Macaw - YouTube again- if the bird were showing greater fear or aggression, she wouldn't keep messing with it-- so this wouldn't work for all birds initially. She's good enough at reading the signals to know how far she can push these birds without legit upsetting them. That will be different across birds.

You will probably have to break this down into smaller steps DEPENDING on how much your bird hates being touched, but the point is, not to push them too far past what is comfortable---you don't want to harm trust or stress them out, and you want training to feel positive so that they enjoy it a bit.

Okay thank you. You explained it good. That’s a good idea I’ll watch the videos. Thank youu.
 

noodles123

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This video doesn't talk so much about training to touch a bird, but it illustrates some other techniques and breaks down the idea of clicker training and baby steps:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=213TKY0a7eE"]Working With Other Peoples Parrots | BirdTricks Parrot Training WorkShops & MasterClasses - YouTube[/ame]
 

MonicaMc

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Maybe "anti-bite" means that birds can't destroy the harness???

I have harnesses myself... They would not stop a bird from biting you.... nor from a bird biting the harness. I imagine if a bird really wanted to they could destroy it.



I do prefer videos and articles by true animal behaviorists and trainers, as well as those who have an excellent grasp on the science of behavior.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oldGrfKxUaE"]Training a Parrot for a Head Scratch - YouTube[/ame]
 

noodles123

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I am not saying BirdTricks is perfect-- they do some stuff I don't agree with, but they have a fairly user-friendly way of presenting some basics- that was why I posted those. The research shouldn't stop there--obviously.
 

charmedbyekkie

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Just fyi, both of those harnesses are NOT Aviator Harness, which are actually made by Parrot University.

If you have mouthy conures, these knock-off harnesses would not be safe. They will be able to easily unhook themselves.
 

chris-md

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I am not saying BirdTricks is perfect-- they do some stuff I don't agree with, but they have a fairly user-friendly way of presenting some basics- that was why I posted those. The research shouldn't stop there--obviously.

Not to mention Barbara doesn't post free content.

years ago I asked her how to pull talking out of the closet. Nowadays answers to questions like this is fairly obvious to me: reward it. But instead of simply saying those two words, she refused to answer outright and made me pay $30 for a year rental to a video that largely had nothing to do with me.

Lost a lot of respect for her for that. BT content is great, positive reinforcement, and its free. Good enough for most cases. I've learned far more from them than I ever have from Barbara. Key being I never would have paid for what i know now, its all bits and pieces I've been able to bring together myself. BT offers those bits and pieces for those of us who can synthesize, and know people aren't going to pay $600 consult fee just to learn to target.
 

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PLease note that the ones that you referenced on Ebay are shipping from Shenzhen, China ( the home of cheaply made knock offs), not the US. Aviator harnesses are made in the USA. Hence the improbable description of "Anti-Bite Harness". If the usual hold true, these are cheap knock offs of the actual Aviator and I personally would not get one.

There is no sch thing as an Anti-bite harness, in fact trying to put one on your parrot, without proper training and desensitization, will almost assure you will get bitten!
 
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AzurZafir

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Wow I didn’t even notice it was from China. I’m not going to buy these fake products for sure. Thank you for lighting this up :D Btw it’s great and funny how we talk about all other stuff too. :D
Thank you all :green::green:
 

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