Toe Tapping Returns

Hey guys,

Jasper is having a really bad incident of toe tapping right now Just started about an hour ago.

Wing flipping, toe tapping on right foot, and his left foot is just driving him insane. He keeps tucking it up and it's like it's kicking.

He's standing on the floor in his carrier right now and I can hear his foot hitting the floor over and over

Only thing I can think of this week was I've been giving him strawberries (no more than other fruit quantities). I've been giving him about 3-4 pumpkin seeds per night.

I'm so upset right now, the poor guy is just stomping like crazy.

I am so sorry, and am also freaked by this, last I read, you thought corn was an issue!

I'd start doing 'elimination' diet.

Hopefully you can figure out rather sooner than later what is causing it.

It has been so long since this happened too

Hi, Katie. I'm sorry you and Jasper are still going through this right now. And, if I remember correctly, he was only intermittently toe-tapping before, right? This is the first time that he's wing-flipped as well? Which would seem to indicate something of a progression.

Have you taken him to a vet for some bloodwork? I just wonder how all of his levels look, diet-wise. From what you've posted before, he seems to be getting a good diet. And I'm assuming that, given the dialog from earlier threads, you've already eliminated corn? (As some ekkies can apparently be sensitive to excess corn.)

Thing is, up until now, we've been approaching this in a rather formulaic manner. If there's toe-tapping or wing-flipping, you're putting too much of something in his diet. But if we were dealing with a human, our approach would be markedly different. Why? Because each human is so different from the next. Some humans are just born with cholesterol issues, for instance. And their diets must be adjusted accordingly.

And maybe that's the case with Jasper. But I reckon the only way to know that for certain is to get some bloodwork done. See where exactly the levels are off. Maybe what constitutes a healthy diet for the average ekkie just won't cut it for Jasper. Know what I mean?

He had wing flipping before as well. What I'm seeing tonight I've seen before Sometimes it's just mild toe tapping, the worst times have been like tonight.

Yes I had eliminated corn for a month and no toe tapping.

I talked with my breeder and she said there's no bloodwork tests for toe tapping, so not sure what tests would need to be done?

What tests are you suggesting? What are we looking for?

Thank you. The poor guy is still managing to play with his toys and talk Feel awful for him.

Katie, I don't know if you've previously been given links to this, but in case you haven't, these really contain some great information regarding toe tapping and wing flipping:

Re: wing flipping (toe tapping / foot clenching )

landofvos.com ? View topic - My Eclectus JUST Started Toe Tapping. What do I do?

I can't speak for Stephen (Anansi), but perhaps a CBC (complete blood count) is in order, to exactly determine organ levels?

Exactly, Wendy. There's no test for toe tapping, but seeing what levels are off can give you an idea of where the problem is. Might help you zero in on the issue more swiftly.

Just read through the links you provided, Wendy. Good stuff!

Thank you all, just read the articles.

Grapes. He had a few grapes this week, twice I think. Hmm....

The extreme foot pounding/wing flipping is over with, lasted about an hour or so. Now it's regular toe tapping on the "bad leg" from earlier. Glad the worst of it is over.

CBC, ok. I will see about booking an appointment with a new vet I found (avian vet)

My guess is this bird is just super sensitive to some ingredient(s) that triggers this. Until you figure out what, it will reoccur periodically.

I'd go back to a base diet, and keep a food diary of everything he eats. See if you can find a trigger pattern.

The food diary is a good idea. If you take him to the vet, take a video of him tapping so that the vet can see it and gage how serious it is. I had a princess parrot with a nervous disorder, she would move her head left to right like a sprinkler yet when I took her to the vet she didn't do it.

When I was getting breakfast I saw my breakfast list for Jasper on the fridge. I write down what he gets each week so I can mix things up. Completely forgot to look at this last night of course

So last week he had 3 new things: strawberries (hasn't had them since last year, he's had a couple pieces each day this week), cucumber (every day with his breakfast), and organic frozen sweet cherries (every day with his breakfast).

So any of these could be a culprit I guess.

This morning he's still tapping but calming down. Will probably take a few days to go away again.

I eliminated cherries from his breakfast this morning.

Appreciate all of your replies! I will start a more detailed diary to keep track.

Yeah, without a food diary, you're wasting your time, and a vet would only be guessing, so that would be a waste of money.

It's process of elimination, and then a strict adherence to not exposing the bird to trigger foods.

Think of it as a person who is a borderline diabetic. He can't eat stuff that you and I can stuff ourselves with...

I wouldn't say a vet would be a waste of time, Mark. If the blood work revealed certain values to be too high, for instance, she could research which foods contribute to that and remove them from the diet. Might cut down significantly on the time factor.

But yes, I agree that a food diary would be a great idea.

Well, what I meant was without the food diary, the vet would only be guessing what the labs say...

A food diary, plus a blood work up = AHH-HAH. IT'S THESE.

It's sort of like giving him a sick bird, but not having any base line for the bird's normal blood chemistry. If you have the base line, you can compare the two and AH-HAH.

Without the base line, you're guessing, and doing more tests. Not that. Well maybe it's this then. More tests. No that, well let's try this... THIS is the reason you get well birdie exams. Not to have someone tell me my bird is fine. I already know that...

Now the doctor has an established base line, and knows your bird somewhat. So that when the bird DOES have a problem....

He can go AH-HAH! And start the treatment immediately.

Unfortunately my original vet that I took him to when I first got him said he didn't need blood work so I don't have a base to start with. Hopefully whichever vet ends up seeing him at this new place knows normal ranges for things. They ARE an exotic vet office.

Normal ranges for birds can be different from the normal range for YOUR bird.
And that can throw every educated diagnostic guess off...

I learned that from my Avian Vet years ago...

Start with the established food diary, see if you can figure it out from that.
If not, you have a useful tool to give your vet, and they can do a blood work up, and hopefully figure it out from there.

He's got elevated levels of XXX, even though he only got a tiny amount of YYY.

Your bird has a problem with storing ZZZ.
This is causing an excessive amount of ZZZ to build up in the blood stream.
Avoid ZZZ foods, which are these on your list.

This is my educated guess on the topic.... a vitamin/mineral storage type issue, making him twice as sensitive as he already would be.

This is incredibly helpful, thank you! I will start the diary when this toe tapping stops so we can start 'fresh'.

Thank you for your help

So just to confirm, should I book a vet visit now for a CBC or wait and try the food diary?