Am I Doing Right By Him?

OutlawedSpirit · Nov 17, 2016

So Tiki has always been a screamer, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is bored and has excess energy he has trouble burning since he is blind. He is fully flighted, but that doesn't do him much good seeing as how he can't see.

I've gotten him to play with toys some. He loves destroying his popsicle sticks. It doesn't seem to be enough, however.

I have found that it seems to help if I "fight" with him. While he's on one hand, I'll tip him back far enough that he has to flap to stay upright, then he'll get angry and attack my hand. I wear his gloves, so it's not hurtful to me. Sometimes I'll set him on the couch and roll him over and play with his belly. Which of course gets him to attack my hands some more.

Although he is not gentle by any means when I play with him like this, it does get him flapping his wings and expending energy. He seems calmer when he goes back to his cage afterwards as well, and it seems to have cut down on his screaming quite a bit after these sessions.

I just wonder if I am doing more harm than good by encouraging him to be aggressive. Granted, I am the only one that interacts with him, he is my bird and not a foster so he isn't going anywhere, and it seems to give him an outlet for his energy. Personally, I would rather have him be aggressive towards me like this than have him not getting exercise. I personally think him sitting around all day and not moving is much worse than being encouraged to be a little aggressive and flap his wings. He doesn't seem to carry the aggression over into a cuddle session, as soon as I stop antagonizing him, he calms down and will let me pet him and kiss his beak. I just want to make sure I am not doing some sort of psychological wrong to him.

Considering he is almost 30 years old, I want to keep him active, and fighting with him seems to be the best way to accomplish that so far. I just want what is best for him, so I hope someone can give me some advice, one way or another, as to if these sessions are okay for him.

wrench13 · Nov 17, 2016

I think you are doing so great by Tiki, considering what the alternatives are.

Violet_Diva · Nov 17, 2016

This might sound like a stupid question, but is he completely blind, or can he differentiate between light and dark? I just wondered if it would be possible to work with him in the dark, but have two perches with strip lights on that he could fly / jump / climb between? (My idea was based on a blind child sensory room with furniture with lit edges.)
Personally I think that the aggressive play seems necessary if there are no alternative sources of activity to burn energy. Does he do much climbing? Would he climb rope nets? Does he flap when being showered? I really don't know what kind of activity could effectively replace the aggressive play. Ultimately, I'm sure he will of learnt it's not a true attack and that it is just play fighting. You are doing a great job and he's VERY lucky to have you. Good luck

chris-md · Nov 17, 2016

Ask four lawyers you'll get five answers!

I have to disagree. While I know you mean well - obviously!!!- Encouraging of any aggressive play that ultimately requires gloved protection...I can't see that ending well. Especially with the lack of sight, he's being knocked around not seeing it coming. That's got to be terrifying. I know I wouldn't enjoy that, being pushed around and not knowing when it's coming.

There have to be other ways to engage him, tactile experiences he can have. I'm not a creative person so I've got no advice as to what this might be short of a box full of bubble wrap.

Loko · Nov 17, 2016

I think it depends on what is actually going on. I have met many people who play fight with their bird and I do as well, but it is play fighting. If you know your bird, you will know the difference, but to other people it may look like youre "terrorizing" the bird. Ive seen videos on youtube with comments of people going crazy thinking the guy was terrorizing the poor macaw but they were just playing. I dont know whats going on in your case or if the bird being blind changes anything, but if he knows its play then I think its a good thing as many birds do like to play rough with each other. If the bird is bite pressure trained then you will know its play because during the "play" fighting he wont be trying to bite your fingers off, but if not, theres a fine line between the two. You know your bird, if you think he is having fun, I dont think its bad.. if you think he is legitimately getting upset or stressed and fighting for his safety then I wouldnt do it. As for what else you can do? Encourage lots of climbing and walking and maybe hold his feet and "fly" for him with him secured?

chris-md · Nov 17, 2016

To clarify my point (because loko draw a distinction I meant to make but didn't) rough play is fine if your bird likes it, I wasn't advocating against it in general. But the need for a glove and a blind bird doesn't not have great optics when talking about rough play.

Plus when playing rough, they know the difference and you don't need a glove.

plumsmum2005 · Nov 17, 2016

OutlawedSpirit said:
So Tiki has always been a screamer, and I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he is bored and has excess energy he has trouble burning since he is blind. He is fully flighted, but that doesn't do him much good seeing as how he can't see.

I've gotten him to play with toys some. He loves destroying his popsicle sticks. It doesn't seem to be enough, however.

I have found that it seems to help if I "fight" with him. While he's on one hand, I'll tip him back far enough that he has to flap to stay upright, then he'll get angry and attack my hand. I wear his gloves, so it's not hurtful to me. Sometimes I'll set him on the couch and roll him over and play with his belly. Which of course gets him to attack my hands some more.

Although he is not gentle by any means when I play with him like this, it does get him flapping his wings and expending energy. He seems calmer when he goes back to his cage afterwards as well, and it seems to have cut down on his screaming quite a bit after these sessions.

I just wonder if I am doing more harm than good by encouraging him to be aggressive. Granted, I am the only one that interacts with him, he is my bird and not a foster so he isn't going anywhere, and it seems to give him an outlet for his energy. Personally, I would rather have him be aggressive towards me like this than have him not getting exercise. I personally think him sitting around all day and not moving is much worse than being encouraged to be a little aggressive and flap his wings. He doesn't seem to carry the aggression over into a cuddle session, as soon as I stop antagonizing him, he calms down and will let me pet him and kiss his beak. I just want to make sure I am not doing some sort of psychological wrong to him.

Considering he is almost 30 years old, I want to keep him active, and fighting with him seems to be the best way to accomplish that so far. I just want what is best for him, so I hope someone can give me some advice, one way or another, as to if these sessions are okay for him.

My tuppence is if Tiki is OK with rough play and you can tell when he doesn't want it then it should be OK. Forcing a bird to do this when they clearly do not want to is another thing IMO. The gloves kinda block the way of telling you? I am sure you are learning his body language.

Could you get Tiki used to word cues for play beginning and ending? We play rough with Plum when he's in the mood and it ends with cuddles but he isn't blind so has options. You know your bird!

Loko · Nov 17, 2016

chris-md said:
To clarify my point (because loko draw a distinction I meant to make but didn't) rough play is fine if your bird likes it, I wasn't advocating against it in general. But the need for a glove and a blind bird doesn't not have great optics when talking about rough play.

Plus when playing rough, they know the difference and you don't need a glove.

I agree, the only thing that gets tricky is that some birds arent pressure trained.. so the bird might still be playing but biting really hard since he wasnt trained to do any differently. I get what youre saying though, especially add the fact that he is blind he probably feels more vulnerable.

It really comes down to how well you know your bird. Especially in this case with a handicap, theres a very fine line between play and fear.

SailBoat · Nov 17, 2016

chris-md said:
Ask four lawyers you'll get five answers!

I have to disagree. While I know you mean well - obviously!!!- Encouraging of any aggressive play that ultimately requires gloved protection...I can't see that ending well. Especially with the lack of sight, he's being knocked around not seeing it coming. That's got to be terrifying. I know I wouldn't enjoy that, being pushed around and not knowing when it's coming.

There have to be other ways to engage him, tactile experiences he can have. I'm not a creative person so I've got no advice as to what this might be short of a box full of bubble wrap.

The largest muscles is his flight muscles. To rapidly drain energy, engage the flight muscles. As part of the Amazon Forum Thread; I Love Amazons is a segment that speaks to Re-fledging an Adult Amazon. The only difference for your Parrot is that you keep him firming holding on to your finger (hand), while moving around the room, then multi-rooms, then a series of rooms. You also want to include landing as part of this process. When your Parrot becomes more comfortable flying while holding onto your finger (hand), you can start building banking (turning) into the flight around your home.

Ruff housing with a Parrot is fun, but unless one uses great care, it is just as easy to be setting biting as an acceptable interaction with Humans. There are any number of unforeseen events that could result in your Loving Parrot having to live with other Humans. We are all bound to socialize our Parrots, so that they can easily become Loving Members of a New Family!

Always train /socialize as if the next owner of your Parrot is someone else's grandchild!

GaleriaGila · Nov 17, 2016

I have no idea...
But...
I just *HAD* to jump in and say how much I admire you for helping this bird.

OutlawedSpirit · Nov 17, 2016

Okay, first, as far as the gloves, I have to use them with Tiki anyway. With being blind, he will bite when startled, and I don't think he'll ever be able to be handled without them. I am not wearing the gloves because of the play, I am merely wearing them because I'm handling him.

Although he gets rough and growls when we play fight, it doesn't seem to bother him much. When I stop being rough with him, he immediately stops being rough with me, so I am pretty sure he knows the difference. I am confident enough that he has stopped being aggressive after we stop play fighting that I will let him lean against my chest to cuddle right after. I'm not sure what else I should look for to find out if it is truly stressing him out. He occasionally with breathe a little heavy if he really gets flapping, but if it is just wrestling, he doesn't seem to breathe any heavier or otherwise seem stressed.

Maybe when I talked about rolling him over on his back I wasn't very clear, it isn't an out of the blue attack. I will drum my fingers along the couch all the way up to him, so he can hear my hand coming.

We are not sure if he is completely blind or if he can differentiate some light and dark. I know in his one eye he is completely blind, it doesn't react to light at all. His other eye will react slightly to light, but not as much as it should, plus it has a cataract, so we are not sure what, if anything, he can see out of that eye either. I would be interested in trying the perches with light strips to encourage some flight if I was more confident in his ability to differentiate between light and dark, but I don't think he has enough sight for even that, and I would not want to put him at risk.

plumsmum2005 · Nov 18, 2016

You are doing great, have so much love and patience for your birds. They are all very lucky and vice versa.

Could you get Tiki to do stationery wing flapping drills by hanging onto the gloves? If you lower him when he is on your hand and offer praise when he does it it will become part of everyday life.

If you have a cargo net strung up and take him over to it, to explore with his beak at first, then try and encourage him to climb by feeling his way and he knows you are still there and meet him with a hand/glove at the top would he do it?

As he gets to know you better and the trust you share in each other is beyond doubt I feel you could do more, all in good time.

OutlawedSpirit · Nov 18, 2016

I will have to get a cargo net, and maybe try getting him to climb up that.

I've tried just getting him to flap by dropping my hand, and that usually leads into play fighting. I could try "flying" him across the room while holding his toes, but I have a feeling he will spend more time trying to eat my finger holding his toes than he will flying. He's never been fond of his feet being messed with, and I haven't managed to convince him otherwise yet. Maybe if we're moving, though, he will have to spend more effort balancing than eating fingers.

Thank you for all the suggestions, I just know he's got to be bored, and I am trying to think of ways to get him moving.

Anansi · Nov 18, 2016

When you roll him over onto his back and play with him, does he desperately try to scramble back to his feet? Or does he focus more an his epic battle with your hand? If it's the latter, and he's fine staying on his back while "fussing" with you, chances are he's having fun. Laying on his back goes against the instinctive need to be on his feet and ready to either fight or fly away, so it would actually be quite a show of trust for you on his part.

As for the tipping backward part, I personally wouldn't do that one. Threatening the balance of a blind bird can potentially be among the most terrifying things he can experience, since he has no point of reference beyond his hearing, balance and sense of touch. Granted, I can't say this with any certainty whatsoever without actually seeing his body language while this is happening, but allowing themselves to be placed on their backs is typically a big show of trust for an ekkie... and I'm talking sighted ekkies, here.

I LOVE K's idea about the cargo net! Another source of exercise that offers quite a few climbing options for a blind bird. Might unleash his inner explorer.

BTW, I think it's great that you're constantly challenging yourself to find a way to make life more enjoyable for Tiki. Overall, I definitely think you're doing right by him.

OutlawedSpirit · Nov 18, 2016

He doesn't seem to have an issue being put on his back. Sometimes on the couch, he'll want to flip back over, so I will let him, but I can flip him into my hand and he's fine. He holds onto my other hand still, but he'll lay in my hand as long as I want him to and doesn't try to get back up. Trust me, if he wanted up, I wouldn't force him to stay on his back

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

plumsmum2005 · Nov 18, 2016

OutlawedSpirit said:
I will have to get a cargo net, and maybe try getting him to climb up that.

I've tried just getting him to flap by dropping my hand, and that usually leads into play fighting. I could try "flying" him across the room while holding his toes, but I have a feeling he will spend more time trying to eat my finger holding his toes than he will flying. He's never been fond of his feet being messed with, and I haven't managed to convince him otherwise yet. Maybe if we're moving, though, he will have to spend more effort balancing than eating fingers.

Thank you for all the suggestions, I just know he's got to be bored, and I am trying to think of ways to get him moving.

If he is agreeable then hold him in your two hands to start so he gets to feel the air passing by his head and then maybe progress holding toes, if you are sure he'd be OK.

(Plum was pretty reluctant to fly for a while and I used to run with him on my shoulder or arm shouting "weeeee" like a looney but he liked it and would lift his wings in response. Little steps LOL.)

Probably forgotten what the sensation is. Remember some of it is him knowing what to expect in his dark world.

Keep us updated.

Am I Doing Right By Him?

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