Breeding Eclectus Problems

tet024

New member
Feb 7, 2016
11
0
Hi,

So I have a pair of eclectus 12 years old. I bought them last year, and the previous owner told me that he successful had chicks from the pair. For the last year breeding these pair was a total disaster. The female produced clear eggs, although I did see mutual feeding from the female towards the male and the male accepts the food and some times see the male feeding the female. Its as if the male is afraid of the female. Also the male never entered the breeding box. I also placed wooden toy sticks near the hole of the box for them to chew on but they never touched it. The female just chewed the wood chips within the box. I also never seen the pair mating.

I was feeding them RodyPush High Energy Pellets and Zoopreem Pellets. Now I removed the pellets and I started to Sprout SunFlower and Safflower Seeds and Also give them Some Hemp seeds. I'm also giving them mixed vegetables and apples and quinoa.

Now I decided that there was something wrong as the aviary was in shade now I did a new one which has more light and 2 weeks ago I transferred the birds to it. Till now I didn't place the breeding box as I'm doing a new one.

I was reading that to trigger mating Ideally for every Female you should have two males. Before I start the research to find another Male do you have any other suggestions.
:confused:
 

SilverSage

New member
Sep 14, 2013
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Eclectus, CAG, BH Pionus, Maximilian’s Pionus, Quakers, Indian Ringnecks, Green Cheeked Conures, Black Capped Conures, Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Budgies, Canaries, Diamond Doves, Zebra Finches, Society F
1) they may just not feel settled enough to breed yet. Some of the larger species need to settle into their aviaries for a few years before they will produce.

2) eclectus are not monogamous and it sounds like your pair is poorly matched. If your male is afraid of your female that says a lot!

3) if you are feeding pellets to eclectus then you haven't done NEARLY enough research to be attempting breeding yet. You need to stop trying to breed them until you understand the basics of eckie health.

4) there may very well have been something wrong with the aviary, but your birds are highly unlikely to breed this season right after a transfer.

5) you need a much larger enclosure if you are going to have 3 birds in it, and you need a deep understanding of eckie mental processes. Don't add a third bird until you have done waaaaaay more research because that will likely end in disaster.


I'm not against breeding parrots; I'm a breeder myself. As a breeder I hold other breeders to an extremely high ethical standard. Breeding birds isn't easy, and it isn't simple. Eckies are one of the toughest to do right. You need to bury your head in research before putting these birds' lives at risk through "trial and error."

People like to say "well everyone has to start somewhere" as an argument that it's ok that they don't know what they are doing yet. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere but that somewhere is with RESEARCH. Forums are helpful, but they are like study groups not like text books. Please go dig into the information available before continuing in your venture. Read everything you can not just on breeding eckies, but on training them, housing them, hand feeding them, health problems they have, behavioral issues, etc. contact eckie breeders and ask them specific questions. Join eckie groups, breeding groups, and hand raising groups on Facebook; GET ALL THE INFO before putting your birds at risk.


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tet024

New member
Feb 7, 2016
11
0
  • Thread Starter
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Hi,
Thanks for your reply. I full agree with you but i've been for the last six months reading things from different sites which practically contradict each other. Some say and promote rodybush low maintenance pellets I tried those some say sprouts and pellets. Some say only veggies and fruit. Therefor i'm totally confused. The Avairy is 8 feet by 8 feet and it should be capable of housing another male. But still Im confused. If you have or breed eclectus I would gladly here and Implement your Ideas.

I'm coming from an area of breeding greys which is totally different story.

Research is the key but as you know there is no control on what is placed on the internet nothing is vetted and people tend to also invent things. I turned to this forum to have a better insight of an actual breeder.

Any Help would be greatly accepted. I'm assuming that i'm starting from the very beginning.

Just one note - As a breeding box during the last year I had a L shapped box. This i have to replace thus I someone thinks that a grandfather clock type box is better kindly advice.

Thanks,
Et
 

Owlet

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2016
2,750
1,886
Colorado
Parrots
Lincoln (Eclectus), Apollo (Cockatiel), Aster (GCC)
Some pellets are okay to feed but most are corn based or just contain a lot that's not suitable for ekkies. There's a avian store near me who's owner is very knowledgeable in ekkies and pointed me toward this brand of pellets along with fruits and veggis.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...6ECxRhzoqufDMQoTA&sig2=LA_dhuUl7Woo-ABzUsdqMg

At least I believe this was it, I'll have to double check next time I go in. As for crop mixes these are two I've used that I've found very successful with my ekkie though a breeding female would need a stable calcium source in addition. Which might be why the eggs were translucent, not enough calcium to build a sturdy shell.

Brocolli
Yams
Blueberries
Strawberries
Mangos
Kale
Red, yellow, green bell peppers
Quiona
Oats
Zuchinni

---

Squash
Brocolli
Beans
Yellow bell pepper
Oats
Kiwi
White dragon fruit
(I think that's all, I forgot to write this one down so I might be missing something)

You have to be very careful on what you feed ekkies. Never give them too much of one thing and the more variety in a mix the better as they won't be getting too much of one thing in a single serving. Too much nutrients of one thing can very quickly lead to toe tapping and wing flapping which can be very annoying to an Ekkie and even after completely cutting out what is causing it, it'll take a few days to clear up. Imagine being unable to stop tapping your foot and flapping your arms. That's what it is to them because it's muscle spasms.

Keep nuts to a minimum, I use almonds as a treat for Lincoln and he gets maybe 4-5 a day. I use almond slivers though so I can do 20-25+ training exercises throughout a day using them. DO NOT feed ekkies corn. Other parrots can handle it in minimum but it'll quickly lead to toe tapping for ekkies. No sunflowers either or really seeds in general. Too fatty. Ekkies need a lot more fiber than other parrots too, brocolli would be great for that.
 
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davefv92c

Banned
Banned
Nov 29, 2016
441
2
this is some good feed for the Eclectus. it takes care of what other feeds fail to do since the Eclectus metabolism is different then other Parrots.i mix with a few pellets and volkers super hookbill feed daily, along with a good size serving of fresh fruit and veggies daily always mixing up the contents of the fresh dish to keep it interesting for him.
Volkman Avian Science Super Eclectus Food 4lbs
 

EllenD

New member
Aug 20, 2016
3,979
65
State College, PA
Parrots
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
1) they may just not feel settled enough to breed yet. Some of the larger species need to settle into their aviaries for a few years before they will produce.

2) eclectus are not monogamous and it sounds like your pair is poorly matched. If your male is afraid of your female that says a lot!

3) if you are feeding pellets to eclectus then you haven't done NEARLY enough research to be attempting breeding yet. You need to stop trying to breed them until you understand the basics of eckie health.

4) there may very well have been something wrong with the aviary, but your birds are highly unlikely to breed this season right after a transfer.

5) you need a much larger enclosure if you are going to have 3 birds in it, and you need a deep understanding of eckie mental processes. Don't add a third bird until you have done waaaaaay more research because that will likely end in disaster.


I'm not against breeding parrots; I'm a breeder myself. As a breeder I hold other breeders to an extremely high ethical standard. Breeding birds isn't easy, and it isn't simple. Eckies are one of the toughest to do right. You need to bury your head in research before putting these birds' lives at risk through "trial and error."

People like to say "well everyone has to start somewhere" as an argument that it's ok that they don't know what they are doing yet. Yes, everyone has to start somewhere but that somewhere is with RESEARCH. Forums are helpful, but they are like study groups not like text books. Please go dig into the information available before continuing in your venture. Read everything you can not just on breeding eckies, but on training them, housing them, hand feeding them, health problems they have, behavioral issues, etc. contact eckie breeders and ask them specific questions. Join eckie groups, breeding groups, and hand raising groups on Facebook; GET ALL THE INFO before putting your birds at risk.


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I totally agree with what SilverSage has said to you. Have you done any research at all about the food requirements of an Eclectus? You are feeding your birds a diet that is not meant for the Eclectus species, they have a completely different dietary requirement than other parrots. So this is your first problem, your birds cannot be very healthy or happy and certainly will not be mating or laying fertile eggs on that diet.

It's the end of the breeding season anyway, and to add onto the bad timing you have just moved these birds twice. So the likelihood of them mating or laying fertile eggs at this point in time (combined with the bad diet) is zero percent. And as SilverSage has already said, you can't just put 2 birds together and expect them to mate, even if they are feeding each other or seem to like each other. You actually state that "the male is scared of the female"....That tells me that they are not a breeding pair, regardless of what their prior owner told you before you bought the birds from him. Did he tell you how long ago this pair supposedly had a successful clutch? My guess would be that it was not any time in the recent past.

I completely agree with SilverSage, you should not attempt to breed these birds until you first educate yourself on the Eclectus species and get them on an appropriate Eclectus diet, and in appropriate housing. Please, for heaven's sake do not buy a third Eclectus until you know how to take care of the two you have. If you want to breed Eclectus babies that's up to you, but you've chosen one of the toughest species to breed that has very special requirements. The babies, if you ever do get a fertile clutch from this pair, are not hand-raised like other baby birds, the same as the adults don't eat the same diet as other birds. Please do some long, hard research before attempting this again.

I looked back at your prior posts, and the few you have posted are ALL questions about breeding birds, mainly cockatiels. Now cockatiels could not be any more different from an Eclectus, the Eclectus is a much more complex species of bird to breed, and it seems from your prior posts that you know very little at all about breeding birds in general or raising baby birds. Please take this opportunity to educate yourself before you get in over your head. Please start with going into the Eclectus forum and learning how to do basic care and diet for the two adult birds you have.

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chris-md

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2010
4,349
2,119
Maryland - USA
Parrots
Parker - male Eclectus

Aphrodite - red throated conure (RIP)
this is some good feed for the Eclectus. it takes care of what other feeds fail to do since the Eclectus metabolism is different then other Parrots.i mix with a few pellets and volkers super hookbill feed daily, along with a good size serving of fresh fruit and veggies daily always mixing up the contents of the fresh dish to keep it interesting for him.
Volkman Avian Science Super Eclectus Food 4lbs

That looks mostly like a seed mix that ekkies SHOULDNT be on?? Are you recommending it as a supplement to the primary fruit/veg diet?:confused::confused::confused:
 

SilverSage

New member
Sep 14, 2013
5,937
93
Columbus, GA
Parrots
Eclectus, CAG, BH Pionus, Maximilian’s Pionus, Quakers, Indian Ringnecks, Green Cheeked Conures, Black Capped Conures, Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Budgies, Canaries, Diamond Doves, Zebra Finches, Society F
this is some good feed for the Eclectus. it takes care of what other feeds fail to do since the Eclectus metabolism is different then other Parrots.i mix with a few pellets and volkers super hookbill feed daily, along with a good size serving of fresh fruit and veggies daily always mixing up the contents of the fresh dish to keep it interesting for him.
Volkman Avian Science Super Eclectus Food 4lbs

That looks mostly like a seed mix that ekkies SHOULDNT be on?? Are you recommending it as a supplement to the primary fruit/veg diet?:confused::confused::confused:



Anything that says "fortified" is a red flag for eckies.


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SilverSage

New member
Sep 14, 2013
5,937
93
Columbus, GA
Parrots
Eclectus, CAG, BH Pionus, Maximilian’s Pionus, Quakers, Indian Ringnecks, Green Cheeked Conures, Black Capped Conures, Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Budgies, Canaries, Diamond Doves, Zebra Finches, Society F
Hi,

Thanks for your reply. I full agree with you but i've been for the last six months reading things from different sites which practically contradict each other. Some say and promote rodybush low maintenance pellets I tried those some say sprouts and pellets. Some say only veggies and fruit. Therefor i'm totally confused. The Avairy is 8 feet by 8 feet and it should be capable of housing another male. But still Im confused. If you have or breed eclectus I would gladly here and Implement your Ideas.



I'm coming from an area of breeding greys which is totally different story.



Research is the key but as you know there is no control on what is placed on the internet nothing is vetted and people tend to also invent things. I turned to this forum to have a better insight of an actual breeder.



Any Help would be greatly accepted. I'm assuming that i'm starting from the very beginning.



Just one note - As a breeding box during the last year I had a L shapped box. This i have to replace thus I someone thinks that a grandfather clock type box is better kindly advice.



Thanks,

Et


When researching you have to dig deeper than just what people say. You have to be willing to seek out scholarly articles backed up by science not just simple "how to" articles written by anybody who cares to declare themselves an expert. You need to dig into the science behind the recommendations.

8x8 may not even be enough for two eckies, much less three! You need to find out what the experts are doing. What setups have been successful for people who have been doing this for decades.


Different birds will prefer different boxes. One of the very first, most simple concepts of breeding is that it's wise to provide as many different box options as possible. Since you aren't doing that, I take leave to doubt that you have been doing your research in the right places.


Breeding parrots requires wisdom, not just knowledge. It requires common sense and the ability to figure out which sources are right and to which degree. This is a skill that requires a lot of effort.

Breeders everywhere will disagree on some things because we all will come at each problem with different experiences and different knowledge backgrounds. An excellent example of this is myself and EllenD. We often disagree on how certain things should be done with certain birds, but underneath our conclusions is a deep layer of extensive research and personal experience. We might recommend different diets, but we have researched the individual nutritional needs. We might recommend different nest boxes but we know WHY we recommend the boxes we do. We might recommend different hand feeding formulas or techniques, but we will both emphasize the importance of temperature. What I'm saying is that you have to learn to dig through the "opinions" and find the FACTS. Once you have the facts then you can better sort through the opinions of others and decide which are worth trying and which are complete foolishness.

It's an extremely long and tedious and frustrating process, but the cost of skipping steps is dead birds killed by their mates or dead of breeding complications. Disease outbreaks in your aviaries, thousands of dollars in losses of livestock and vet bills, dead babies killed by their parents, killed by bacteria, killed by yeast, killed by too cold of formula, killed by too hot of formula, killed by one drop of formula fed too fast (sound unbelievable? Well it's happened to me. Completely devastating to have one instant of distraction end in a chick dying in my hands!), killed by eating bedding that you thought was safe! Live baby birds mentally and emotionally scarred for life because you mishandled the hand feeding; you fed enough food but not often enough so the baby is alive and seems healthy but is extremely insecure and won't stop begging. That baby grows up as a screamer, plucker, biter, and his poor owners don't know why. Babies that you clip too soon causing them to be defensive and bite first and ask questions later. Then these babies bounce around Craigslist for a few decades because no one wants to deal with their issues. Issues you UNKNOWINGLY caused by failing to understand the SCIENCE behind what you were doing.

I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just trying to make you understand why doing the RIGHT research is so important. Breeding birds is a lot of work physically and mentally. We love to support breeders who are willing to do everything it takes to do right by their birds.


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davefv92c

Banned
Banned
Nov 29, 2016
441
2
well I'm outta here for a while, **** is to serious for me here anymore
some of you folks are just to anal and if you don't realize it you insult the hell out of people, and talk down to them. there is plenty of info out here and lots of it don't talk back and down to you. I will be doing my bird work elsewhere's without a bunch of people chiming in with telling me I'm doing everything wrong. i took a recess from here before due to this and all the contradictory info i was reading here. looks like it is time again.
 

SilverSage

New member
Sep 14, 2013
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93
Columbus, GA
Parrots
Eclectus, CAG, BH Pionus, Maximilian’s Pionus, Quakers, Indian Ringnecks, Green Cheeked Conures, Black Capped Conures, Cockatiels, Lovebirds, Budgies, Canaries, Diamond Doves, Zebra Finches, Society F
I'm sorry that you feel that way.

I wish someone had been as blunt and honest with me 15 years ago as I am being now; it would have saved a lot of needless suffering. I'm sorry that you disagree, and that you once again feel the need to use profanity in your disagreements. The OP asked for insight into his/her situation from people with experience and I have too much respect for him/her and the birds involved to offer platitudes instead of honest opinions. Obviously, just like everyone else, the OP and yourself have the right to ignore and disagree with anything I say. That's the beauty of a forum.


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EllenD

New member
Aug 20, 2016
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65
State College, PA
Parrots
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Wow, I'm at a loss over this one, and I'm sorry that someone wants to leave the forum because an OP is being answered in a serious way. No one has been rude to him, no one has talked down to him, swore at him, etc.

And it is a "serious" topic, as this OP is feeding his 2 birds a horrible diet for Ekkies, and he wants to add a third adult bird so he can try harder to produce babies! Don't you think that we need to be a bit "anal" and "serious" about trying to give him the advice he's seeking? He came here because what he's trying to do isn't working, and there are a lot of reasons that it's not working. So obviously he needs help, and for the sake of his birds we're trying to help him.

As SilverSage has already stated, I'd be happy if I had a bird's life in my hands and I found out that what I was doing could possibly kill him. I'd want people to be forward.

Some of the issues discussed on this forum are not issues that can be part of a laid back, relaxed, easy going conversation. Sometimes people actually come on here and have a bird dying and want a home remedy. Sometimes people come on here because they have pulled a week old baby and are trying to feed it seeds and are wondering why the baby is not eating. So sometimes we need to be forceful, forward, or do anything we can to get a point across, because their bird will die otherwise. These responses are not meant to be offensive simply because they aren't all daisies and buttercups.

You have every right to post anything you want to post as well, as long as it's not offensive or disrespectful. So if you disagree with advice someone gives that's fine, as long as you can back up your ideas with substantiated facts. But getting all upset and leaving the forum because people are taking seriously the fact that an OP with two adults that he is trying to breed but who won't breed wants to add a third bird to see if that bird will breed with one of the others, all while he has absolutely no idea about how to care for the two birds he has, as well as no idea how to take care of babies or hand-raise them, well I'd hope you would not leave over that. I believe this post was responded to appropriately, and I wouldn't feel good at all had I not responded to this post because this OP and his birds need some serious help.

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Scott

Supporting Member
Aug 21, 2010
32,673
9,789
San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Parrots
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
The successful breeding of Ekkies requires, roughly speaking, a Ph.D in avian husbandry! Extraordinarily complex social mores and nutrition requirements.

So much great guidance thus far, but it is crucial to deliver advice in a non-judgmental fashion - unless we are debating outright cruelty or illegal behaviors. Nothing shuts down a discussion faster than rudeness or aggressively blunt posts.

I am certain the OP is seeking varied and helpful information!
 

EllenD

New member
Aug 20, 2016
3,979
65
State College, PA
Parrots
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Agreed, and I don't think anyone that has posted thus far has been rude or judgemental, even the OP has replied back to comments by thanking people and asking more questions. It's a serious subject that must be taken seriously, and I think the OP now understands that.

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BruceTheQuail

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Jun 12, 2016
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I might be a little oversensitive, but I thought that the first response - while very informative - was a little in the OP's face. But that was mild compared to the dressing downs that I had from our avian vet ("the parrot nazi") over the years, and I am mindful that had I followed his advice more strictly with our lovebirds rather than doing what was suggested on the internet, I probably wouldnt have lost my best little lovebird friend to a vitamin deficiency at age 7.

The vet echoes what was said here, and essentially says that there is harmful disinformation circulating on the internet about parrots generally and about pellets and eckies. His view is that the science behind pellets is largely related to poultry (where the money is) which has been tweaked for parrots. Of 10 eckies that he had seen in early 2016 on pellet diets put on by well meaning owners guided by the internet (me included), all were vitamin deficient. I've followed his recommendations (which are tailored for our birds because our eckie hen is a bit of a fatty) and they are now in great form.

To the OP, I'd go see a good avian vet. But I'd also echo what the others have said - nothing beats chop for these guys. I vary the mix in mine, but the one I made last night has quinoa, a bit of brown rice, sprouts, grated ginger, capsicum (and seeds), zucchini, apple, and mashed pumpkin and sweet potato, with chopped basil flowers (makes it smell nice, mint is good too), and sometimes some chopped aloe. I'll also throw in the fruit from our lilli pilli trees. It is extraordinary watching them eat them, as it looks as though their beak is perfectly designed for it.
 

chris-md

Well-known member
Feb 6, 2010
4,349
2,119
Maryland - USA
Parrots
Parker - male Eclectus

Aphrodite - red throated conure (RIP)
I'm sorry that you feel that way.

I wish someone had been as blunt and honest with me 15 years ago as I am being now; it would have saved a lot of needless suffering. I'm sorry that you disagree, and that you once again feel the need to use profanity in your disagreements. The OP asked for insight into his/her situation from people with experience and I have too much respect for him/her and the birds involved to offer platitudes instead of honest opinions. Obviously, just like everyone else, the OP and yourself have the right to ignore and disagree with anything I say. That's the beauty of a forum.


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Extremely well put! I'm in the same spot where it came to my first conure. I didn't know better and she suffered for it. I wish someone had written me the riot act. Sometimes a firm tone is warranted to drive home the gravity of what you are being told. .

I credit the OP for seeing and understanding we only desire to help here. In truth The kindness and generosity of the experienced individuals here is unimpeachable.
 
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davefv92c

Banned
Banned
Nov 29, 2016
441
2
you know the computer is a funny thing people who you would think would be the nicest folks in the world can get behind a keyboard and turn into mean people. some of that stuff in this thread was a bit harsh, and insulting and to be honest I just don't think these folks would stand face to face with anyone and speak to them in this manner, at least I hope not.
now I posted a link to a feed I use which is made by a well respected company for the Eclectus. oh no that is all wrong you should not use that. well believe me I don't think there where 4 hillbillys somewhere in the farm lands sayin hey we have all this different seed lets mix it all together and call it Eclectus parrot feed. I would almost guess this company spent a bunch of money to have their feeds figured out by proper people. anyway enough of that this is still the best place for bird info but from here on out I will be looking in from the offline mode and reading as I'm just not up for lectures for something I may post about how I keep my birds.

just now noticed some posts have been cleaned up well good for who ever did it
 
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Anansi

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Staff member
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Dec 18, 2013
22,301
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Somerset,NJ
Parrots
Maya (Female Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Jolly (Male Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Bixby (Male, red-sided eclectus. RIP), Suzie (Male cockatiel. RIP)
you know the computer is a funny thing people who you would think would be the nicest folks in the world can get behind a keyboard and turn into mean people. some of that stuff in this thread was a bit harsh, and insulting and to be honest I just don't think these folks would stand face to face with anyone and speak to them in this manner, at least I hope not.
now I posted a link to a feed I use which is made by a well respected company for the Eclectus. oh no that is all wrong you should not use that. well believe me I don't think there where 4 hillbillys somewhere in the farm lands sayin hey we have all this different seed lets mix it all together and call it Eclectus parrot feed. I would almost guess this company spent a bunch of money to have their feeds figured out by proper people. anyway enough of that this is still the best place for bird info but from here on out I will be looking in from the offline mode and reading as I'm just not up for lectures for something I may post about how I keep my birds.

just now noticed some posts have been cleaned up well good for who ever did it

We're all passionate about our birds here, and sometimes when we mods see that a particular turn of phrasing might be taken in the wrong light and cause unnecessary conflict, we may adjust it somewhat. Doesn't mean that we are condemning the poster. Just that we are doing minor course corrections for the sake of harmony and the maintenance of a positive atmosphere.

All this said, I believe that there have been some very knowledgeable posters on this thread who have given some sage and heartfelt advice. Fact is, we do take the safety and welfare of birds very seriously on this forum. We joke around heaps as well, of course, but when a member comes seeking advice, serious consideration and thought is put into the answer... as it should be.

Don't let this discourage you. Instead, take heart in a community that cares enough about your and other members' questions to take the time to compose a serious and well-considered response.

As for Volkman Avian Science Super Eclectus Food, here's the thing. It is good for eclectus... in that it is not enriched and vitamin fortified as are many other seed mixtures out there. Buuuuuuuuuut... as is the case with most parrots as regards seed mixtures, the content is simply too fatty to be used as a main staple of their regular diet. It should never be considered as a substitute for a diet of fresh fruits and veggies. It's good as a treat. Maybe one or two teaspoonfuls before going to bed. But never as a main food source. Such would likely eventually lead to liver or heart disease. Which is why Chris questioned it.

I don't say all this to lecture or condemn, but rather to inform. So I hope you take what I'm saying in the spirit with which it is given.
 

davefv92c

Banned
Banned
Nov 29, 2016
441
2
that says it all. why don't you go read my posts in this thread and you will see how I feed
some of you folks here did nothing but turn my posts into what you wanted and here comes my lecture. well folks from what I CAN SEE THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE WITH KNOWITALLITiSE and that is not a place I wish to be.
 

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