Leg Spasms

Keatz

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Jan 5, 2016
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Australia
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Oscar (eclectus)
Basil (Amazon)
My eclectus, Oscar, is experiencing leg spasms. I've had him for three and a half years, and it has been a recurring problem. He was toe tapping the night I brought him home, and it was not long afterwards that he experienced his first leg spasm episode. Over time, I've consulted a number of experts about it and taken him to three different vets, but frustratingly, the vets just tell me to watch what I feed him. I feel frustrated that I can't get a solution.
He had a leg spasm episode around the start of February. I got in contact with an ecelctus breeder who seemed to think it may have been caused by a build up of vitamin A in his liver. I removed all food, including pellets, from his diet that contained added vitamins, and I started feeding him vegetables, fruit and rice during the day and a bit of bird seed in the evenings.
The leg spasm episode he's having at the moment seems to be worse than the last. He's so upset that he's been squawking.
The only new food I gave him last week were some yellow cherry tomatoes that I was given, but I'm not sure tomatoes are linked to toe tapping or leg spasms.
Also, could it be possible that he's allergic to bird seed, since that is the only new addition to his diet? The last time I tried feeding him bird seed was about a year ago, and he had an episode after a week. Could it just be a coincidence?
 

chris-md

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Hello Keatz. I’m so sorry you’re having to deal with all this.

Leg spasms are not something commonly brought up here, more often it’s toe tapping and wing flipping. It is most certainly a neurological symptoms, and a lot of neurological functions can be tied to levels of phosphorus, calcium, salts, you name it.

If this is possibly diet related your best possibility is an elimination diet. Start off by feeding him nothing but brown rice for 3 to 4 days (the healthiest, most harmless thing you can feed) and see how he reacts. If the spasms stop you can safely assume that there was something in the diet contributing to them. You then add a second ingredient to the rice - i would choose bell peppers personally- and observe 3-4 days. From there, continue to add one new ingredient every three or four days and continue to monitor. If spasms return you’re most likely culprit was the last ingredient you added.

What are you feeding as far as pellets?
 

Scott

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Has Oscar seen a certified avian vet? I understand the term and qualifications differ globally, but many "exotic" practices lack the specialized training and equipment to diagnose complex issues with parrots.

Perhaps food will be the "great healer." Whatever the issue, it seems chronic and Oscar may benefit from original research.
 
OP
Keatz

Keatz

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Jan 5, 2016
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Basil (Amazon)
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Hi, thanks for your input everyone. Unfortunately, there are no avian vets in my area. I've started seeing a vet who is a two hour drive from me and who specialises in birds. Like the first two vets, he treated Oscar's leg spasms like toe tapping. None of the vets would do tests on him. They said he would find it stressful and they didn't want to give him needles. It's quite frustrating not having a vet who will attack the problem. My current vet said that not much is known about toe tapping and to just watch what I feed him.
I did get in touch with the Eclectus Parrot Centre. I sent them a video of Oscar's leg spasms. They're convinced it's a build up of vitamin A in his liver. They said that if an eclectus gets too much vitamin A, it results in them having muscle spasms, but since then I've cut all pellets and pasta out of his diet, and now it's happening again.
I think Chris might be right -- that it's a neurological symptom, but again, the vets dismiss it when I bring it up. They won't even check Oscar's calcium levels.
I once got in contact with Dr Rob Marshall. He gave me a list of things to ask my local vet to test Oscar for, and the vet refused to do the tests, because she said she's not a qualified avian vet. She wouldn't even do an x-ray.
Funnily enough, I live near a zoo. I asked the zoo who treats their birds. They said the same vet. When I told them she wouldn't do tests on him, they said she just advises them and they have their own medicines.
I guess I'm just venting about the lack of help. Because this has been an ongoing problem for over three years now, it's really starting to depress me.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Good grief, it is so frustrating when avian science is capable of assessing blood chemistry and ruling in/out many avenues for Oscar. Are there any vets with abundant avian expertise a farther but reasonable distance? Perhaps a one-time visit for blood draw and X-Ray will yield sufficient data to collaborate treatment with your local vets?

A more offbeat approach may be to arrange a holiday to a locale with avian veterinary expertise? If Oscar is a good traveler, there options by air or auto.
 

Anansi

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I'm so sorry that you and Oscar are going through this. It's insane that no one has been willing to check his blood levels up through now. But despite the difficulty finding an avian vet, I think you really need to take Scott's advice on this and go out as far as necessary for a one-time visit with an avian certified vet. Without blood tests, you're just shooting in the dark. And as Chris mentioned, there are just so many different things that might be causing the issue.

I agree that it is most likely neurological, but without tests, everything is little more than educated guesses. Overdose of vitamin A? Possibly. But if you eliminate all Vitamin A and it turns out to be something else? Well, then he would be contending with a second deficiency on top of the first. I think it would be worth one long trip to get an idea of what you might be dealing with... or at the very least to eliminate some of the likely suspects.

Whereabouts are you in Australia? We have quite a few members from there who might be able to recommend you to someone worthwhile.
 
OP
Keatz

Keatz

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Thank you for your advice, Scott and Anansi. I have a follow up appointment with Oscar's current vet in April. I'm going to show him a video of Oscar's spasms and ask him to do some tests. If he doesn't, I'll take your advice and try to get him to an avian vet far away. I live in the Grampians, in the west of Victoria (Australia). The nearest avian vet is on the east side of Melbourne.
When I looked up bird vets in country Victoria, the one I'm seeing at the moment seemed to be the most recommended.
Once, when Oscar first started experiencing his leg spasms, I contacted the avian vet in Melbourne. He said he was willing to consult my local vet over the phone and instruct them on how to do tests on Oscar, but my local vet was opposed to the idea.
When I bring Oscar's leg spasms up with vets, I feel that they don't take it seriously. They kind of trivialise it by dismissing it as toe tapping. I ask them to run tests, and they just look at him and say he looks healthy and there is nothing wrong with him. But his episodes are so severe that I'm convinced it's not entirely food related. Besides which, it causes Oscar a great deal of stress and misery. Last night, he did not sound very happy.
 

LordTriggs

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also when you ask your vet about doing a blood test threaten if they don't you'll go elsewhere. The threat of lost business is normally a good kick to get them to do something
 

Anansi

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Do you have video of these spasms?
 
OP
Keatz

Keatz

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Jan 5, 2016
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Australia
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Oscar (eclectus)
Basil (Amazon)
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I do have a video of it, but I can't work out how to attach it here. Does anyone know how?
Curiously, I've noticed that it seems to be his left leg that has the spasms, while his right foot toe taps.
I'm pleased to say that Oscar is better today. But while it was happening, I also noticed that he was excessively scratching and not pooping much. Normally, when I get up in the mornings, there are a couple of big droppings on the tray of his parrot stand. While he was having the spasms, I was lucky to find one small dropping. When I got up this morning, there were a couple of really big droppings and he was better. He's not even toe tapping now. That caught my attention because when the Sydney bird vet gave me a list of things for my vet to test Oscar for, a build up of gas in the stomach and constipation were some of the things.
Still, like one of the members suggested, I'm just stabbing in the dark. I'd like to know why this is a recurring problem. I will ask my vet to do some tests on him, and if he doesn't, I will try to get him to Melbourne.
 

Anansi

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Easiest way to attach a video is to upload it to YouTube, then click on the Share tab, copy the link, and then paste it in your reply window.
 

Anansi

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The seeming constipation is definitely concerning. I hope some tests can be run on him soon. Tell you what, though. If your local vets were apprehensive about running tests on him in the first place, I'd suggest you go elsewhere anyway rather than push the issue. If they don't feel confident working with parrots, or know their way around avians in general, they might wind up doing more harm than good while trying to test.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
The seeming constipation is definitely concerning. I hope some tests can be run on him soon. Tell you what, though. If your local vets were apprehensive about running tests on him in the first place, I'd suggest you go elsewhere anyway rather than push the issue. If they don't feel confident working with parrots, or know their way around avians in general, they might wind up doing more harm than good while trying to test.

Absolutely, an ethical vet knows his/her limitations and will freely admit!
 

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