Did I unwittingly become a surrogate parent?

Hi all,

Recently posted about my new guy "Fergus"; he has been really withdrawn and frightened of everyone since I picked him up (3 weeks ago), and was also given a really harsh single wing clip to top things off (not me!). Thought I'd start a new thread as things have changed.... a lot!

Got some really good advice and encouragement from my previous thread, but if I'm honest was at my wits end just a couple of days ago; Fergus was even worse and began launching himself off his feeding stand. Had to resort to leaving him on the ground (didn't want to reinforce his behaviour by constantly picking him up) as he clearly doesn't like it down there; in fact he would walk some distance to my offered hand and happily step up????
Didn't know what to do so thought I'd experiment with his seed a bit, which he seems to love more than anything. Took all his foraging bits out for now, and put his seed "allowance" in a dish and swilled it around at the cage door to get his attention and coax him voluntarily to my hand. This worked SO quickly!! within a day he was totally changed! he doesn't puff up when I approach the cage, he doesn't quiver in fear when I handle him, AND most importantly he's stopped launching himself off he feeding perch!

Fergus is a TOTALLY changed parrot, he still lunges at me on occasion (still no intent) but now he actually moves around the cage watching me, comes to the open cage door, and although he has always stepped up well he now almost jumps up! All I am doing is allowing him a couple of seeds whilst in transit, its weird but I was initially so relieved at the change.....BUT.....now he is squawking at me all the time! It's not the seed, we are talking really small amounts and his diet is good (mostly veg); looked it up but couldn't get a consensus. Do you think he is reverting back to calling for food as he would have to his aviary parents only weeks ago? Have I opened up a new can of worms by doing this?

Really don't know what to do; I love the new assertiveness and confidence in Fergus, but my ears are bleeding! ha,ha I have not been acknowledging this behaviour, I don't even look his way when he squawks, but I want the gains I have made in bonding to continue.....Advice????

Thank you,
Scott.

Lots of very knowledgeable Ekkie parronts on this forum,I'm sure some one will chime in. I know nothing about Ekkies,except they have the cutest darn faces! lol


Jim

AmyMyBlueFront said:

Lots of very knowledgeable Ekkie parronts on this forum,I'm sure some one will chime in. I know nothing about Ekkies,except they have the cutest darn faces! lol


Jim

Click to expand...

Hi Jim,

Thanks for answering me! Didn't think this problem would be so unique.

Its gotten a bit better over the last few days, probably because I try to ignore Fergus whenever he squawks, whilst still persisting with offering him the seed when transitioning him from the cage to his play gym/feeding stand.

I'm pretty happy with the progress overall and actually found a couple of really good articles regarding the psychology of screaming/squawking so have a bit more confidence with the issue now.

Thanks again,
Scott.

Hi, Scott!

Sorry, just seeing this thread. Let me ask you a few things before trying to help. (If you still need help, at any rate. From your last post, it sounded as though things were turning around for you and Fergus.

How old is he? And do you know if he was force weaned or abundance weaned? Much of how I answer your questions will depend on the answers to these questions.

Also, did you say he was given a single wing clip? As in they only clipped the flight feathers on one wing and not the other? I abhor this practice! (I know it wasn't you, so this rant is aimed at the faceless one who did it.) It's psychological abuse, designed to make him lose trust in the practice of flight altogether and, in the end, develop a fear of it. It makes flying straight ahead virtually impossible, and sends them crashing to the floor hard... all to discourage the instinct to fly.

Debates about whether or not to clip are one thing. But clipping one side? This is something we can all agree is just cruel and wrong.

Okay, rant over. My advice is to clip the flight feathers on the other wing so as to balance him out. And this is coming from someone who always keeps his birds fully flighted. But if you don't even him out, there is a good chance that he'll develop a bit of a phobia about flying at all. Not to mention that he might hurt himself if he does try to fly.

Anyhow, looking forward to hearing how things have been progressing.

Hi Anansi,

Thanks for taking the time to get back to me.

Yeah look I've quickly realized the "breeders" weren't too crash hot, not just because of the clip (yes, one wing VERY clipped, the other not at all), but because of lots of other recommendations that I have since found out are not good for this species. I've actually remedied the situation myself in the end as local vets (even those specializing in birds) would at most only commit to a superficial clip of the primary flight feathers. Fortunately Fergus does not seem too put off by his early misadventure and routinely attempts flight! Harness training awaits.

I'm afraid I haven't a clue about the weaning; I was told that Fergus was parent raised in the aviary up to around 14 weeks of age, although he was apparently taken in to a family home from much younger to accustom him to various people. He was then separated from his parents at 14 weeks for the 2 weeks prior to me collecting him. Hope this helps.


His screaming still goes on, but I find its much more severe when I have been away from him for extended periods; almost like he's telling me off for leaving him Don't get me wrong, there is always someone at home with home, and on the odd occasion there isn't we leave the cartoon channel on. I try not to give him attention when he gets like this but it can be hard sometimes when I'm just in from work because I need to get his dinner going and also spend time with him, so I try to use a firmer tone and tell him "stop shouting" which seems to work a bit. Maybe I'm still doing the wrong thing but I still hand feed him treats...I like the thought of it working towards our bond and hope its not keeping him in some weird parent/child relationship? usually this is a few fragments of a nut or a couple of passionfruit seeds that kind of thing.


Any advice would be brilliant.

Cheers, Scott.

So sorry I'm only now seeing this!

I'm so glad to hear that the one-sided clip (grrrrrr!) hasn't dulled Fergus' desire to fly! Such spirit!

So Fergus is somewhere in the realm of 5-6 months old, yes? While weaning, and sometimes for a while after, some ekkies do develop this screeching habit. But it can also be a case of him having been weaned a bit too early, ie force-weaning. You can try giving him some warm, mushy foods to top off each meal. Kind of like a comfort feeding after he has consumed his regular morning and evening meals.

Another thing to check on is his weight. He might actually be hungry, so you want to be sure that you are feeding him enough. Feel around his keel bone, and run your thumb out in a right angle from the keel bone. If the pectoral area seems shrunken to either side and the keel seems sharp and like it's protruding, he is underweight and his food amount needs to be increased. If you can easily feel the ridge of the keel but it doesn't feel too prominent, and the pectoral muscles are rounded to either side almost to the level of said keel, he's at just about the right weight. (And conversely, if you cannot feel the keel at all and the pectorals are VERY rounded, your boy's living too rich a life. Lol!)

As for hand feeding him treats, there is nothing wrong with this practice... provided that this is only happening with treats and not his primary meals. Feeding treats by hand is a great way to bond and build trust. But hand feeding him entire meals only builds a kind of dependency that you'd be far better off avoiding.

Looking forward to hearing any updates!

Oh...and plze do NOT tell a bird of for screaming: any attention is a reward, and now he has found a way to make you say a phrase to him!

Ignore the screams and if he starts to scream when you are near: deliberately and (overdo it a bit just to make your point) turn your back to him.
"no (nonverbally) I do not want you to do that" will work beter than screaming back at him to make him shut up.


Reward any other souds he might make- he'll be chattering away in no-time.
Have you picked a flock-call yet?
(Hello? where are you? Miauw? Biepbiep? a certain whistling sound? Your name?)
He'll need something to call out and get a response so he knows he is not alone.



(I always laugh my arse off in when I hear parents yell at their children to "BE QUIET!!!" -> great example of good behaviour there, mum or dad!)

I recall the history of Fergus, including the one-sided clip in which his breeder was going to come over here and tell us all why that's actually a better practice, lol...Still waiting for them to do this...anxiously.

As I said in your prior/first post, his breeder did practice very bad breeding practices, and he was pretty much "Force Weaned" when he was suddenly just removed from his outdoor aviary and his parents and then brought inside the house. This is a horrible method of trying to "tame" a baby parrot, I've not ever heard of anyone doing this before, and for good reason. It's perfectly fine to allow the parent birds to feed the babies while you handle them every day, but that should start from 2-3 weeks old, the handling every day! Just suddenly completely removing a baby parrot from his parents at 14 weeks old and bringing them inside the house is both irresponsible, cruel, and also makes no sense at all. So yes, in a sense Fergus's breeder did "Force-Wean" him, unfortunately, which as I stated before can cause severe neurological and psychological damage.

This has nothing to do with anything that you did at all. It's not uncommon at all for babies/young parrots who were Force-Weaned or not properly/thoroughly weaned to revert back to "baby behavior". And you're correct that this is probably a behavior that is a result of his horrible breeder...and I mean this is a really bad breeder who has no business breeding parrots at all. They have basically invented their own methods of breeding/raising/weaning baby birds, and have just decided that their ways are the right ways, and this is obviously regardless of the feedback they get from the people who have to deal with the troubled babies she's breeding this way.

It's quite possible that offering him the seed by hand did trigger some regression; I've heard of some babies who have been fully-weaned and eating solids on their own for weeks to months, then suddenly they start crying every night like clockwork for what is called a "comfort feeding" of formula. Some breeders recommend going back to hand-feeding them a small syringe feeding of formula when this happens, and then basically trying to wean them off of only the comfort-feeding; as a breeder I never ran into this issue, but I don't think that would be the answer anyway, as probably what would happen would be the baby simply regressing further and further until they weren't eating any solid foods and were requiring formula hand-feedings all day long. But again, I've never had this happen to me before...

I think your best bet is to keep totally ignoring his crying/squawking, make sure that you don't even acknowledge that he's doing it, and be really certain that you don't EVER walk back into the room he's in while he's squawking, because the minute you do that even once, he's got you and he'll keep doing it for attention. You've just got to get him through this episode without catering to him at all, because what you don't want to have happen is for him to totally regress to the point that he stops eating on his own completely because he wants to be fed...

I'm so sorry you were so unlucky to have found the breeder you did. I know you love Fergus, and he's actually the one who is suffering the most from his breeder's horrible, homemade breeding practices. I hope that you've gone online and given this breeder some very honest reviews so that other people know to stay away...