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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2018, 10:19 PM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I'm so glad to hear that things are looking somewhat better! I'm hoping with you that Cairo gets the all-clear at the appointment.

As for convincing the vet to do a blood test, I'd point out that, even if all is well, you need a baseline to know what his levels should look like. Not to mention that a vet should know a bird can look perfectly healthy even as they harbor something potentially detrimental to their health.

That said, however, is the vet a certified avian vet? Because if not, and she is hesitant because she has no experience drawing blood from birds, I wouldn't push it. I'd just try and find a CAV to do it.

Weighing at a consistent time is good, though ideal would be before breakfast. How I got this to be routine was to purchase a scale with a removable perch on it. (And a tare function so that I don't have to do math every time I take a weight. Lol!) Then I just make it a practice every day that I take them out, walk them over to the kitchen and promptly put them on the scale perch (saying simply, "Scale" so they learned what was expected), then grab their food and walk back with them to the cages. Soon enough, they came to look forward to going on the scale, because they associated it with food. They recognize it as the precursor to mealtime.
Unfortunately, there is no CAV in this country. There are only two vets that are on the Association of Avian Veterinarians list. I've been to both (made a little thread about it), but this vet is the only one that has the capability to do blood work. It's just culturally less is done for birds than, say, America. So despite my disagreement on a few of her beliefs (that birds perch higher for dominance, that ekkie should be ok with touching within a couple of weeks, parrots including ekkies should have pellets, etc), she is my only option - the other vet flat out does not do anything with bird blood.

I'll try your method for weighing as soon as I get a small perch Right now, we've been trying to get him to either step directly onto the kitchen scale or tare the scale to a branch and weigh him while on the branch.

All that being said, we had some toe-tapping/wing-flipping last night for a few minutes. But it stopped this morning. The latest thing I added was snow peas, starting from Sunday evening.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:15 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Here's a link to a site with information about toe tapping.

https://eclectusparrotcentre.com/contact/toe-tapping/

I contacted them when Oscar was having a severe episode. They were very helpful and supportive.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2018, 03:36 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Quote: Originally Posted by Keatz View Post
Here's a link to a site with information about toe tapping.

https://eclectusparrotcentre.com/contact/toe-tapping/

I contacted them when Oscar was having a severe episode. They were very helpful and supportive.
I'd read through their website extensively before adopting Cairo, but never thought to contact them. Thanks!
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2018, 09:50 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Just got back from the vet!

His yeast is gone! Yay! Now it's just a matter of time for his digestive tract to heal. During the visit, he produced more urine than the vet would like (and she is taking into account that he's on a fresh chop diet). She says it's likely the weather has been very hot and humid recently (more than usual) since I did tell her he's been drinking slightly more water than usual, which she said was a good sign that his body is regulating that for him. But we're to keep a close eye to see if there's any improvement; if not, it might be a bladder issue.

She helped me feel his keel bone and verified that he's a healthy size but it wouldn't hurt if he had 3mm more on his chest. She did note, based on our description of flight time, that he's not very athletic since he heats up quickly during the sessions.

For the blood test part, she actually wants to do one in 2-3 weeks to make sure his bladder (or liver or other parts) isn't the cause of his urine problem. She said if we did today the test wouldn't be a good baseline anyway since he just got over the yeast problem and is still healing from that. So 2-3 weeks from now, hopefully he'll be all better enough to get a good baseline blood test that we can work from.

Huge relief to hear he's on the mend! In total today, we did a faecalysis, urinalysis, and microscopic urine sediment check. We're so happy to have found this vet who is willing to do these tests (and have a turnaround of analysis within minutes) and who is kind enough to take the time to listen to our questions (from his feather condition to keel bone to temperature) and show us how to check him over to assess his health ourselves.
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*He grew up in a Malay-speaking family, so we have to respect his name and preferred pronunciation

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2018, 06:14 PM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

I'm glad to hear that Cairo is on the mend. Hopefully, the urine is nothing. My vet told me that it's usual for birds to have higher urine content during summer, from drinking more and eating fruit.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2018, 10:30 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Quote: Originally Posted by Keatz View Post
Here's a link to a site with information about toe tapping.

https://eclectusparrotcentre.com/contact/toe-tapping/

I contacted them when Oscar was having a severe episode. They were very helpful and supportive.
Thanks for linking this, Keatz! (And good to see you! It's been too long!) Laurella Desborough is VERY knowledgeable about ekkies, and while I have never seen the site you linked before, I'd directly corresponded with her a few times several years ago when I had some questions about Bixby and she was very helpful. I'll definitely be reading through that article.

Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
Just got back from the vet!

His yeast is gone! Yay! Now it's just a matter of time for his digestive tract to heal. During the visit, he produced more urine than the vet would like (and she is taking into account that he's on a fresh chop diet). She says it's likely the weather has been very hot and humid recently (more than usual) since I did tell her he's been drinking slightly more water than usual, which she said was a good sign that his body is regulating that for him. But we're to keep a close eye to see if there's any improvement; if not, it might be a bladder issue.

She helped me feel his keel bone and verified that he's a healthy size but it wouldn't hurt if he had 3mm more on his chest. She did note, based on our description of flight time, that he's not very athletic since he heats up quickly during the sessions.

For the blood test part, she actually wants to do one in 2-3 weeks to make sure his bladder (or liver or other parts) isn't the cause of his urine problem. She said if we did today the test wouldn't be a good baseline anyway since he just got over the yeast problem and is still healing from that. So 2-3 weeks from now, hopefully he'll be all better enough to get a good baseline blood test that we can work from.

Huge relief to hear he's on the mend! In total today, we did a faecalysis, urinalysis, and microscopic urine sediment check. We're so happy to have found this vet who is willing to do these tests (and have a turnaround of analysis within minutes) and who is kind enough to take the time to listen to our questions (from his feather condition to keel bone to temperature) and show us how to check him over to assess his health ourselves.
I'm so glad that the yeast is gone! Sweet! Also happy to hear that your vet is willing to do blood tests. Her cause for waiting sounds reasonable enough, and it seems as though she is quite thorough. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer to know how things are looking inside for Cairo.

I'm really hoping that he doesn't have either a bladder or liver issue. It can be tough with ekkies who are on a fresh diet, since their droppings tend to be more watery due to the greater concentration of water in their meals than a bird on pellets. Here is a link to an excellent thread by one of our members who put together a bunch of photos of common issues we sometimes run into wit birds. Very informative, and the sections on droppings might be particularly helpful to you right now: Photo Informative Collages
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2018, 06:51 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Hi, Stephen. I hadn't been on for a while -- I guess because Oscar's been mostly well (though, he's going through a very heavy molt at the moment).
I really enjoyed talking to Laurella. She was very helpful and supportive.
When I read about eclectus, like Cairo, having similar experiences, I can really empathise with their owners. Toe tapping is such a confounding condition; there's not always an easy fix.
Oscar's had a couple of minor toe tapping episodes, which have lasted a night or two, since his last major episode almost six months ago. In one case, I know what caused it -- someone was feeding him Corn Flakes, and I read on the box that they contain added vitamins. Another episode, I just didn't know what caused it; he's on a fairly strict diet with no vitamised of fortified food. Fortunately, though, when he has these minor episodes, they only occur while he's sleeping and they don't seem to disrupt his sleep. They're only a nuisance to me if he decides to sleep in my room, because when his toe taps, it makes a loud noise.
Anyway, I was wondering how Jolly has been since his episode. Has he had any relapses? I hope he's well.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2018, 08:06 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

Glad to hear things have been going so well with Oscar! What advice did Laurella wind up giving you about Oscar's particular situation?

As for Jolly, thankfully he hasn't tapped a toe or flipped a wing since. He's back to his usual, hyperactive self. Thanks for asking!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:43 AM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

That's great news that Jolly is back to his hyper-active self.
I sent Laurella the video I posted a while back. We discussed what Oscar had been eating and his history. She seemed certain that in Oscar's case, the toe tapping and leg spasms were related to his diet. She said that added vitamins in his food were slowly building up in his liver over time until his body could not take it anymore, resulting in muscles spasms. She suggested I cut the pellets out of his diet and anything else containing added vitamins, including pasta and bird seed (the commercial seed around here is vitamised).
Since I've cut pellets out of Oscar's diet, I've noticed a big improvement in his health.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:12 PM
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Re: Toe-Tapping, Need Support/Advice

I'm so happy for Oscar! What brand of pellets?
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