Knock Knock - Who’s got hormones? We do!

charmedbyekkie

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Cairo the Ekkie!
Cairo is trying to regurgitate.. Sometimes a little does come up, but he’s not directly forced it on me (yet). He only does it when I’m around. Need some guidance.

Overall I think we’re in puberty somewhat.

If he’s in his cage, he’ll chill out, practice talking, play with his toys, etc. But the moment he’s out of his cage, 3/4 of the time, he’s zooming around, landing to knock knock on different places around the house. I’ve been taking his knocking as just hormonal playing/territorial behaviour. It’s ok, so long as he doesn’t do it on a computer monitor. But the trouble is he’ll sit on a perch (whether official perch or a chair or a door) in front of me and knock knock as he attempts to regurgitate (my partner is spared the same treatment).

When he gets into this knock knock mode (basically hormonal agitation from my understanding), there’s little talking sense into him (figuratively speaking). He will step up if required (and mutter something at us), and I put him in his cage to calm down. But the moment I take him out of his cage, he starts the knock knock again.

Here’s a video:

[ame="https://youtu.be/OqEs0UM4KAs"]Knock Knock - It's Hormonal Cairo - YouTube[/ame]

I don’t normally let him go on for this long, but just for the video this time….

As for what he mutters when I ask him to step up, it’s the same things my partner might say to him when he’s being ‘naughty’ (somewhere he’s not supposed to be, chewing something he’s not supposed to chew, biting when he’s not supposed to bite us, etc.). So there’s a clear correlation in Cairo’s brain between a negative situation and those words.


To add to the mix, my partner suspects that Cairo views me as a potential mate. When I was overseas for a work trip for one week, Cairo got really aggressive with my partner - lunging and biting. The moment I came back, Cairo tried to regurgitate for the first time for me. He’s not possessive of me (yet); my partner and I can interact with each other just fine in front of him, and Cairo is happy to just quietly sit next to my partner sometimes. But I definitely don’t want to lead him on.


What do you recommend I do? The guy is knock knocking more than half the time he’s out of his cage. So it’s almost a few hours total of knocking going on. Sometimes he’ll calm down and just preen. Sometimes he’s too agitated to even do his trick training.


Here’s the measures we’ve taken:
  • No fruits (except on the weekend)
  • 12-14 hours bedtime
  • Touching his body is limited to training
 (so we can handle him at the vet - touching his keel bone or his chest as if listening to his heart and lungs, flipping him onto his back for a blood draw, opening his wings to examine, etc) and for harness training (if we don’t keep up practicing touching/harnessing him, he becomes hand-shy)
  • All food is not warm or mashed, just chopped or whole pieces
 (we’ve read reducing starchy stuff helps with hormones, so brown/red rice is limited to 1-2x a week)
  • Toys are all chewing related or sound/color related (nothing he can fixate on)
  • No boxes or dark areas (we had a foraging box in his cage for a week only a few months ago)
  • I put him aside to calm down if he starts trying to regurgitate


I don’t know if a factor is that we haven’t been able to flying as often. We used to go 2-3x a week. Now, it’s been reduced to once a week. And yes, the clever boy KNOWS. I’ve shared a video on the forum before of him asking to go fly-fly when we were having breakfast at the park. Last weekend, as we reached the park where we fly, I asked him, “Cairo, do you want to go fly-fly?” And the clever boy replied, “FLY-FLY!!!” (Mind you, this bird doesn’t ever repeat what I say.) So I’m almost wondering if he just doesn’t have the means to expend the energy of ekkies who fly kilometres every day.

Surely knock knocking most of the time can't be healthy for him....
 

LaManuka

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Well who’s a pretty boy then?!

Sorry charmed I have zero advice for you but WOW isn’t Cairo in superb condition? As you may know we are going through a crazy hormonal phase with Lilly Pilly right now and she’s laid 2 eggs and is trying to turn EVERYTHING into a nest, so you have my every sympathy. It’s amazing how a few extra molecules here and there can make such a difference isn’t it? I guess you just can’t argue with all those millions of years of evolution!
 
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charmedbyekkie

charmedbyekkie

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Well who’s a pretty boy then?!

Sorry charmed I have zero advice for you but WOW isn’t Cairo in superb condition? As you may know we are going through a crazy hormonal phase with Lilly Pilly right now and she’s laid 2 eggs and is trying to turn EVERYTHING into a nest, so you have my every sympathy. It’s amazing how a few extra molecules here and there can make such a difference isn’t it? I guess you just can’t argue with all those millions of years of evolution!

Haha, yep, he certainly struts his stuff! Sometimes he runs on top of his cage where I put toys for him to play while outside - he stretches all the way up and spreads open his wings and flaps them, threatening an imaginary encroacher. Gorgeous colours, especially now that his molting has cleared off most of his adolescent feathers that had stress bars and bronzing.

Poor boy is still clueless about the ladies, though :p But he is intrigued by the colour red, so clearly the biology is there ;)
 

LaManuka

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Oh yeah, Cairo’s got his finest green suit on all ready for those Ladies in Red!
 

SailBoat

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Based on both of your locations, the Sun's length of the day is defining the start of the natural hormone season. Young mid to large Parrots will show some level /segments of Adult sexual activities. Being clueless is the classic statement of youth.

I'm an Amazon Snob, I'm not a Cairo expert. :D When working with the other Green guys, we eliminate fruit 100% during hormonal season.

Like what you are doing. Understanding that halting the tiny shots of chemical is not possible during their natural season. What you are doing is limiting it. For Amazons, its like crazy season and the most important part is to be watchful for the effects of the rush of chemicals and not to over react.
At Cairo's young age, he is as confused about what is happening as you.
 
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AmyMyBlueFront

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And a Normal Grey Cockatiel named BB who came home with me on 5/20/2016.
Such a handsome young lad. Even at nearly 30 y.o. Amy does the bob bob knock knock thing with other fids. Constantly with Beebs if they are close and even when visiting Salty,but doesn't do it with/to me.


Jim
 

Laurasea

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Me too with Neptune! Though he mostly does to Ta-dah ;)
Myself I never make him feel rejected, or make a big deal about it. if he is feeling extra lovey I just say thanks, then move him to a different hand or a perch or just take a walk around the house and look out windows just redirect. My female Penny has been backing up to rub her lady bits on my face, oh joy.... I just say thanks I love you too, and redirect. She is VERY sensitive to rejection, rejection makess her lose confidence get depressed or get oh so mad! So I usually get her to step up on my hand, give her eye contact and tell her she is wonderful, that it's wonderful she loves me so much, then take her to look at the windows, or to her play forage area...
Just like when people make a social faux pas it's best not to mak big deal or embarrass anyone! My fids are pretty sensitive in these situations..
 

Ellie777Australia

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It sounds like Cairo is knocking on tree trunks ‘trying to find a hollow’ for his red chicky-babe to nest in. During courtship, the male normally does this knocking and with the side to side movements he quickly touches the hens head with his head and neck. Then the food exchange occurs once she runs after the handsome and debonair Cairo. Cute eh? What a man? Sorry Cairo but my gorgeous Ellie isn’t interested despite your handsomeness. Ask Bertie about it…she’s currently chasing him away if he gets a little too close.:D
I agree with Laurasea in ‘re-direction’ and maintain contact so that he doesn’t feel rejected. In the wild, the breeding season is related to the wet season and availability of food. A long wet season (nests get flooded) and drought (long flights to forage for food) means a shorter breeding season. The only variable you can control here is to ‘limit food availability’. You are doing everything else that should be done so now it’s managing the normal process of ‘hormones in season’.
 
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charmedbyekkie

charmedbyekkie

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Yep, it definitely does seem like he's trying to woo me.

Unfortunately ekkies are opportunistic breeders, so while season does have some impact, if the conditions are right they're ready to breed any time of the year (yay, living on the equator). And being where we are means it's the same climate, same fruits, etc, so it's perfectly hot and humid all year round like Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.


I'm trying to make our time together not centered around his hormones. Most of our interactions lately look like this:

[ame="https://youtu.be/5HLYGAA5JnU"]Cairo - Casanova - YouTube[/ame]

Where he then flies to me, goes to perch on my shoulder, does the mating lean away from my face before leaning in to touch my face with his beak. The moment his beak comes near my face I put him to a calm perch. I'm having to restrict his shoulder privileges nowadays when he gets hormonal because he gets mixed up and doesn't know whether to feed me or to bite me.


The only time he's not acting hormonal is either during/after a walk/flight outside or after a shower. Is there any way I can help him learn to interact with me without propositioning me? He doesn't do this with my partner; he only really does this if I'm home.


For what it's worth, I feel like I made such a big mistake when I put a foraging box in his cage a few months back. It was only in for about a week, but I think that might have been the big trigger to really kick things off :(
 

SailBoat

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Aaaa, life on the equator. Yet another reason I enjoy life in the Great White North - there is zero confusion as to what season it is. :D

Your doing wonderful and your insights are on target. Regarding the nesting box, yup not a great idea. Good news, once you are out of this cycle, life starts anew for the next year.

The joy of youth.
 

HEEDLESS

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This red hen, Kise over here is attacking the screen and biting me for picking her up off the screen/not letting her seeing the handsome green!
 

Ellie777Australia

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Unfortunately ekkies are opportunistic breeders, so while season does have some impact, if the conditions are right they're ready to breed any time of the year (yay, living on the equator). And being where we are means it's the same climate, same fruits, etc, so it's perfectly hot and humid all year round like Indonesia and Papua New Guinea.
LOL...in my last post I was going to say that 'unfortunately we live in a climate where mating could occur year round'. I just wasn't sure about your zone. Then, captivity changes things a bit yet again.


The only time he's not acting hormonal is either during/after a walk/flight outside or after a shower. Is there any way I can help him learn to interact with me without propositioning me? He doesn't do this with my partner; he only really does this if I'm home. You are the chosen mate. My understanding is that is why you get the regurg and propositioning. Outside of what you are doing, extra flights and walks, maybe limit your contact whilst the hormones resettle??

For what it's worth, I feel like I made such a big mistake when I put a foraging box in his cage a few months back. It was only in for about a week, but I think that might have been the big trigger to really kick things off :(I also read that foraging boxes were a great idea but the 'box' must not resemble a potential 'nest'. I may not bother testing a 'foraging box' now!

I'm learning with you so thanks for posting this thread. Hoping Cairo settles soon.
 
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charmedbyekkie

charmedbyekkie

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For reference, this is the box:

yNUn4oc.jpg


I thought it was shallow enough and narrow enough and not a shadowy place because I kept it upright, not like a hidey-hole.

He really seemed to enjoy playing with all the toys I put in there - foot toys, wood toys, rattan balls, etc. He would perch on the edge of it and sort through what he wanted to play with, and I thought he was ok. Even when he chose to sit inside it, I thought that it might just be a matter of perch preference. But then, he started getting territorial and his knocking became more frequent and persistent.
 

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