Parrot Forum Header Left  
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Eclectus

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 01:02 PM
saxguy64's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Tucker the Red Sided Eclectus Baxter the YNA Patches the Grand Eclectus, my best friend. RIP Cuckoo the BFA RIP
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Thanks: 9,110
Thanked 11,377 Times in 2,709 Posts
saxguy64 is on a distinguished road
Toe tapping, UGH!

As careful as I am with his diet, Tucker started toe tapping. It's day three, and I'm trying to eliminate any possible thing that might have changed to trigger it. It quiets down, and I think we solved it, but it comes back. It seems worse in the early evening before his supper. I'm at a loss so far. Is it possible to be from too much vitamin A? He LOVES his butternut squash and carrots right now, and a little red pepper, and currently thumbs his nose at almost anything green. I'm trying, and he always has the options. That preference changes every now and again, but that's his favorites at the moment. Bear in mind, previous owner was feeding him zupreem (natural) as a large part of his diet, very little fresh stuff, and no reports of tapping. So confusing! His weight is now a wonderfully stable 420-430 give or take. That's a bit less than when I got him, but he wasn't flighted then, and the zupreem... Birdie junk food. He was a little bit chunky, like 450+ range if I remember correctly. He was 427 this morning :-)

The tapping is not severe yet, but it's there, no question, so I'm trying to get on top of it quickly. It breaks my heart to see it. My poor baby boy. So, off to the vet first thing tomorrow morning to check him out and see what his levels are doing. Hope we don't have to wait too long for labs...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to saxguy64 For This Useful Post:
1oldparroter (02-11-2020), Anansi  (02-17-2020), LaManuka  (02-11-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-11-2020), Tami2 (02-11-2020)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 02:09 PM
Tami2's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Levi - 4 yr old CAG DOH-4/2/2016
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: New Jersey
Thanks: 14,481
Thanked 14,828 Times in 4,367 Posts
Tami2 is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Sorry to hear it, Jon.

Good Luck at the Vet tomorrow!
__________________
____________
~Tami & Levi


"It is discouraging how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit."
~ Anonymous

Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Tami2 For This Useful Post:
1oldparroter (02-11-2020), Anansi  (02-17-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-11-2020), saxguy64  (02-11-2020)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 04:06 PM
1oldparroter's Avatar
Senior Member
Parrots:
I am 71 and been studying parrots, am on a limited income, can't afford to buy but will rescue. Had preferences, but will let the good lord provide best match. jh
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Waiteville, WV
Thanks: 1,569
Thanked 378 Times in 177 Posts
1oldparroter is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

read the furnished link and use google for more and youtube.com. Use mini clothes pins to clip various "greens" to the cage bars. He may just tear them up (if at all) but he will get a taste now and then. Use different greens and watch it for awhile. Pay close attention to what a "proper" diet is and furnish it. Remember that cut or shredded size is important and so it temperature. jh
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 07:11 PM
charmedbyekkie's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Cairo the Ekkie!
Join Date: May 2018
Location: US/SG
Thanks: 1,830
Thanked 3,145 Times in 1,005 Posts
charmedbyekkie will become famous soon enough
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

I feel ya.

What I've noticed for Cairo is that his toe-tapping starts when he's not eaten recently. So if his dinner is delayed or if he had an early breakfast or if he didn't eat much of his breakfast, then he'll start toe-tapping before dinner. And if he doesn't eat much dinner, he'll start toe-tapping in the following early morning.

His appetite does vary quite frequently, so I can always link the two together.

The reason I did put the link between empty stomach (figuratively) and toe-tapping was because I remembered that Jasper toe-tapped when his calcium levels were low and they were often low in the evenings, but not all the time.

Am hoping it's a simple fix like that.

The other known trigger that we struggle with fruits. It seems like too much of sugar or whatever his fruits share in common cause toe-tapping. He can have a tiny piece, but any more and he'll toe-tap. I know ekkie owners know about the sugar part, but I personally never realised how drastic so much so that I only give him fruits about once a week and even then I anticipate him toe-tapping half the time, depending on how much he's eaten.

One final thing is, I don't know how flighted Tucker is. But when Cairo goes flying, I guess his body metabolises his food faster. He toe-taps and is hungry after flying. Once I give him a snack, it seems to go away. I just know now to bring food out with us when we go flying.

Tbh, it sounds like you're doing well with his diet. Cairo didn't understand the point of greens, so I just made it so small they stick to his favourite foods. I do also hang up whatever is fresh from our garden (it's a tropical country, so things grow all year round), but if I were in the US, that would be out of my budget to keep tossing money at foraging greens he only chews on but doesn't actually eat.

Good luck with the lab tests! Fingers crossed you'll find an easy solution.
__________________
Parront to Cairo (pronounced chai-row, or 菜肉)*!
*He grew up in a Malay-speaking family, so we have to respect his name and preferred pronunciation

@cairothedino on Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to charmedbyekkie For This Useful Post:
1oldparroter (02-11-2020), Anansi  (02-17-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-11-2020), saxguy64  (02-11-2020)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2020, 08:40 PM
saxguy64's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Tucker the Red Sided Eclectus Baxter the YNA Patches the Grand Eclectus, my best friend. RIP Cuckoo the BFA RIP
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Thanks: 9,110
Thanked 11,377 Times in 2,709 Posts
saxguy64 is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
I feel ya.

What I've noticed for Cairo is that his toe-tapping starts when he's not eaten recently. So if his dinner is delayed or if he had an early breakfast or if he didn't eat much of his breakfast, then he'll start toe-tapping before dinner. And if he doesn't eat much dinner, he'll start toe-tapping in the following early morning.

His appetite does vary quite frequently, so I can always link the two together.

The reason I did put the link between empty stomach (figuratively) and toe-tapping was because I remembered that Jasper toe-tapped when his calcium levels were low and they were often low in the evenings, but not all the time.

Am hoping it's a simple fix like that.

The other known trigger that we struggle with fruits. It seems like too much of sugar or whatever his fruits share in common cause toe-tapping. He can have a tiny piece, but any more and he'll toe-tap. I know ekkie owners know about the sugar part, but I personally never realised how drastic so much so that I only give him fruits about once a week and even then I anticipate him toe-tapping half the time, depending on how much he's eaten.

One final thing is, I don't know how flighted Tucker is. But when Cairo goes flying, I guess his body metabolises his food faster. He toe-taps and is hungry after flying. Once I give him a snack, it seems to go away. I just know now to bring food out with us when we go flying.

Tbh, it sounds like you're doing well with his diet. Cairo didn't understand the point of greens, so I just made it so small they stick to his favourite foods. I do also hang up whatever is fresh from our garden (it's a tropical country, so things grow all year round), but if I were in the US, that would be out of my budget to keep tossing money at foraging greens he only chews on but doesn't actually eat.

Good luck with the lab tests! Fingers crossed you'll find an easy solution.
Thank you! I've been looking at all the known triggers I can think of, and hunger wasn't on the radar. I thought at first it was some grapes. He had one grape a day for two days, and that's more fruit than he usually gets. No more grapes, it slowed down, and then came back. Not the grapes. My other theory... He gets birdie bread, a small piece every evening. I load it with pumpkin and grains and a few veggie items he would not likely eat otherwise. He's been out of bread for a few weeks since my schedule has limited baking time. He's had lots of other food available to offset the lack of bread. I made another batch. He had an extra piece this morning, I came home for lunch- no tapping. This evening, no tapping...

Now I'm torn. I feel like I should have the labs done anyway. It's been less than a year since they were done last, but he's due in a month or so. My other thought is, if he's still not tapping tomorrow, to use the appointment for Baxter, who is overdue. Current budget doesn't allow for full blood work and labs on both at the same time. I hate the thought of being that guy that runs to the doctor with an ailment they can't see. We know it's very real, but...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to saxguy64 For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (02-17-2020), charmedbyekkie Supporting Member (02-12-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-12-2020)
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2020, 06:59 AM
saxguy64's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Tucker the Red Sided Eclectus Baxter the YNA Patches the Grand Eclectus, my best friend. RIP Cuckoo the BFA RIP
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Thanks: 9,110
Thanked 11,377 Times in 2,709 Posts
saxguy64 is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Well, it's morning, tapping is back, but only slightly. He's having breakfast now. Let's see if it goes away after he eats. Thank you for the idea charmedbyekkie.

Hour drive to the vet, here we come. Fun never ends.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to saxguy64 For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (02-17-2020), charmedbyekkie Supporting Member (02-12-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-12-2020)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2020, 09:38 AM
charmedbyekkie's Avatar
Supporting Member
Parrots:
Cairo the Ekkie!
Join Date: May 2018
Location: US/SG
Thanks: 1,830
Thanked 3,145 Times in 1,005 Posts
charmedbyekkie will become famous soon enough
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Good luck!

I doubt being hungry is the true cause behind the toe-tapping (no doubt the empty stomach causes a deficiency of some kind that then triggers the toe-tapping). So if you do find out what the true cause is, I'd be happy to know!!
__________________
Parront to Cairo (pronounced chai-row, or 菜肉)*!
*He grew up in a Malay-speaking family, so we have to respect his name and preferred pronunciation

@cairothedino on Instagram
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to charmedbyekkie For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (02-17-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-12-2020), saxguy64  (02-12-2020)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2020, 12:51 PM
saxguy64's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Tucker the Red Sided Eclectus Baxter the YNA Patches the Grand Eclectus, my best friend. RIP Cuckoo the BFA RIP
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Thanks: 9,110
Thanked 11,377 Times in 2,709 Posts
saxguy64 is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Aaaaaannnd we're back. Vet thinks overall, we're doing great with the diet. Gave me some food lists for vitamin A and calcium values. That's helpful for ideas of new foods I can try when I go shopping. Blood work will hopefully shed some light on things. He also thought vitamin D issues are possible. Makes sense, it's winter in Maine, so no going out for sunshine. I hate artificial lighting but might have to look into it. There's just so much junk out there that doesn't actually do anything.

On the positive side, he said Tucker was the easiest bird he's had in for a long time. A little screaming, but very little resistance, and perfectly quiet for blood draw. He's such a good boy!

Now we wait. They use an outside lab, so it's up to a week for results.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to saxguy64 For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (02-17-2020), charmedbyekkie Supporting Member (02-12-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), Laurasea Supporting Member (02-12-2020)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2020, 09:30 AM
Anansi's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Maya (Female Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Jolly (Male Solomon Island eclectus parrot), Bixby (Male, red-sided eclectus. RIP), Suzie (Male cockatiel. RIP)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somerset,NJ
Thanks: 92,440
Thanked 61,880 Times in 19,026 Posts
Anansi will become famous soon enoughAnansi will become famous soon enough
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Hey Jon, sorry I didn't see this earlier. Bah! The dreaded toe-tap! If the issue is calcium deficiency or some such, the blood test should be VERY revealing. Outside of that, you may have to exhaustively go through an elimination diet, keeping a diary of what foods are removed each week until you pin down the culprit.

Other things that can cause issues are too much protein, too much sugar (as Charmed mentioned), corn (some ekkies are sensitive to corn, for some reason. Mine aren't. But I know of quite a few who were), a combination of two fruits in the same dish that aren't a problem separately (This was the issue with Jolly. I no longer give more than one type of fruit per batch, which eliminated this altogether, but I think the problematic combos for him were either blueberries & raspberries or raspberries & blackberries), or a particular sensitivity to a certain kind of fruit.

Greens are very important to their diets. As Charmed mentioned, chopping their greens into small pieces that stick to the rest of the chop makes a big difference. Another thing is to limit the amount of fruit so that it's more of an accent than anything else. Otherwise, most ekkies will go for those first, and eat enough to become picky about the rest. You want good fruits that will add flavor to the greens in the mixture. Pomegranates, for instance, are great that way. They're juicy, so they make the other things around them more tempting to the finicky eater. Not to mention that they are among the healthier of fruits. Here's an example:


In this particular batch you'll see endives, dandelion, fennel, Swiss chard, red peppers, green peppers, carrots, broccoli and, sprinkled throughout, a bunch of pomegranates. Just enough of them to pique their interest, but not enough to fill them. The greens they are most likely to ignore (dandelion) are chopped into the smallest possible pieces. (There are more of them than you can see there. I probably took that pic before giving a thorough enough mixing.)

And before they developed a liking for carrots, I actually had to grate them. (Thank God they got over that. Geez!)

But greater variety cuts down on the possibility of tapping, as you're less likely to have a cumulative build-up of anything. Each batch of mine lasts three days. So the next batch would have mostly different ingredients. Like a Volkmans Soak & Simmer base, which focuses a lot more on their legumes and grains. But still with greens and peppers. With the legumes in the mix, however, fruit isn't really necessary. They go just as crazy for beans or peas as they do for fruits. Keep the rotation going, and there's less chance of a sensitivity issue. (Less chance, but still a chance. We're talking ekkies, after all.)

Lastly, just in case I never linked this for you before, this is the ekkie food bible: fruitandveg The entire site is an invaluable resource. Of particular value are the Fruit & Veg and the Fruit & Veg Nutrition sub-sections. Just chock full of helpful info.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Anansi For This Useful Post:
1oldparroter (02-20-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020), dhraiden (02-21-2020), saxguy64  (02-17-2020)
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2020, 12:02 PM
saxguy64's Avatar
Super Moderator
Parrots:
Tucker the Red Sided Eclectus Baxter the YNA Patches the Grand Eclectus, my best friend. RIP Cuckoo the BFA RIP
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Maine, USA
Thanks: 9,110
Thanked 11,377 Times in 2,709 Posts
saxguy64 is on a distinguished road
Re: Toe tapping, UGH!

Quote: Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
Hey Jon, sorry I didn't see this earlier. Bah! The dreaded toe-tap! If the issue is calcium deficiency or some such, the blood test should be VERY revealing. Outside of that, you may have to exhaustively go through an elimination diet, keeping a diary of what foods are removed each week until you pin down the culprit.

Other things that can cause issues are too much protein, too much sugar (as Charmed mentioned), corn (some ekkies are sensitive to corn, for some reason. Mine aren't. But I know of quite a few who were), a combination of two fruits in the same dish that aren't a problem separately (This was the issue with Jolly. I no longer give more than one type of fruit per batch, which eliminated this altogether, but I think the problematic combos for him were either blueberries & raspberries or raspberries & blackberries), or a particular sensitivity to a certain kind of fruit.

Greens are very important to their diets. As Charmed mentioned, chopping their greens into small pieces that stick to the rest of the chop makes a big difference. Another thing is to limit the amount of fruit so that it's more of an accent than anything else. Otherwise, most ekkies will go for those first, and eat enough to become picky about the rest. You want good fruits that will add flavor to the greens in the mixture. Pomegranates, for instance, are great that way. They're juicy, so they make the other things around them more tempting to the finicky eater. Not to mention that they are among the healthier of fruits. Here's an example:


In this particular batch you'll see endives, dandelion, fennel, Swiss chard, red peppers, green peppers, carrots, broccoli and, sprinkled throughout, a bunch of pomegranates. Just enough of them to pique their interest, but not enough to fill them. The greens they are most likely to ignore (dandelion) are chopped into the smallest possible pieces. (There are more of them than you can see there. I probably took that pic before giving a thorough enough mixing.)

And before they developed a liking for carrots, I actually had to grate them. (Thank God they got over that. Geez!)

But greater variety cuts down on the possibility of tapping, as you're less likely to have a cumulative build-up of anything. Each batch of mine lasts three days. So the next batch would have mostly different ingredients. Like a Volkmans Soak & Simmer base, which focuses a lot more on their legumes and grains. But still with greens and peppers. With the legumes in the mix, however, fruit isn't really necessary. They go just as crazy for beans or peas as they do for fruits. Keep the rotation going, and there's less chance of a sensitivity issue. (Less chance, but still a chance. We're talking ekkies, after all.)

Lastly, just in case I never linked this for you before, this is the ekkie food bible: fruitandveg The entire site is an invaluable resource. Of particular value are the Fruit & Veg and the Fruit & Veg Nutrition sub-sections. Just chock full of helpful info.
Thank you again Stephen. I had a feeling you'd be chiming in, given your experience with it. The upside so far is twofold. First, I've read and researched endlessly to avoid ever having the tapping start in the first place, and second, it has stopped all together for the last few days! Hopefully it won't come back. Still waiting on the blood work to see what it reveals.

I'm so lucky to have the resources here so I was aware what was happening as soon as it started. I was almost in tears since I'm so careful with his diet, as much as I can be, given his current dislike of most things green. Jalapenos have become more acceptable this week, as long as they're whole. Cut them in any way and he tosses them at me. Red peppers, on the other hand, except for the core, must be cut in little squares, not too big, not too small, and not any other shape lol! We learn as we go, and I constantly try different ways to prepare things.

I'm hoping that some time without his birdie bread is the root of the problem. We ran out, and schedule wasn't kind to my ability to get needed supplies and bake more. It's my best way of getting some of the good stuff in to him that he otherwise just refuses.

I'll post as soon as I get the lab results. Hope it's something simple and we're done with it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to saxguy64 For This Useful Post:
Anansi  (02-19-2020), chris-md Supporting Member (02-17-2020)
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Parrot Forum - Parrot Owner's Community > Species Specific > Eclectus

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
no toe tapping!! Owlet Eclectus 5 09-26-2018 12:45 PM
toe tapping davefv92c Eclectus 15 02-14-2018 02:09 PM
Toe Tapping OutlawedSpirit Eclectus 4 03-05-2017 03:22 PM
Okay, let's talk ABV, PDD and Toe-tapping... Anansi Eclectus 65 03-04-2017 09:27 AM
Toe Tapping/Wingflipping MKraft649 Eclectus 2 01-05-2016 06:34 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.