African Grey Isnt Right

I posted awhile back about my Grey. He had not been himself. Way less talking, climbing and activity in general. Having trouble at times climbing and reaching for his perches. I had a vet telling me to wait it out and see if his symptoms kept up. This is a grey that I had taken in from my grandpas passing this July. He had him on a seed diet for his whole life.

A few weeks ago I got his food changed out to Harrisons High Potency pellets. He took to it right away and ate it like crazy. So that was good. I took the seeds out completely at this point. Next is trying to get him to eat fruits and veggies. Things he would never eat before. I noticed since I changed his food he seemed to be getting a bit more energetic again and showed less signs. Well that didnt last.... On Thursday I noticed he was very quiet all day. Didnt say much at all. Friday came and now he wouldnt even eat, climb, talk and all he wanted to do was sit in the same spot sometimes on one foot and sometimes on 2 with his eyes half closed. Just seemed ridiculously wore out. He had no ambition motivation or anything.

This made me nervous and sent me over the edge. I called a different vet and they took him in right away. I expected the worst. The did a full exam on him. Listened to his heart and lungs. Checked his stomach for swelling and some other things that I cant remember what he called it. Looked at his droppings under a micro, checked his throat and mount and found nothing. Absolutely everything he checked from the exam checked out. Vet decided to give me an antibiotic just in case. Told me to try this and see if this helps. If not, may have to gas him and do blood and cultures. He told me that he had no signs of a handful of diseases like fatty liver, vitamin A deficiency etc but that doesnt mean he doesnt have them. Said that from the outside he looks great. He did comment on his posture though and said he did look a bit droopy. Said he may be a bit arthritic as well since the weather change. Vet was also impressed with how hard he fought the exam though too and how well he bounced back with his breathing and temperament. Said it was a good sign. Felt strong. He is 23 years old.

Today he is even worse. No climbing, no engagement, no moving around, just wanted to sleep all day. He looks so tired. I feel so bad for him. Could he be depressed months later realizing that gramps isnt coming back? Could he be arthritic? Could he really be showing old age at 23 from the bad diet? Even tonight when I put him to bed he has an extremely hard time climbing down 6 inches to his perch. Just a struggle. Any advice is appreciated. Any people that have had these symptoms what was it and was it treatable. I dont want to loose him.

The pellets might be too much for him to handle. With being on seed he might have liver damage and the high potency might be too much to process. If he has liver damage then he will need a special diet. You should have the vet do blood to see if the liver has damage and then go from there I'm surprised they didn't do blood already. Some birds show no signs of liver problems until they die suddenly. So like you said visual might not be telling you what you need to know.

Has some of the diet info and why the high potency may be affecting him
Liver Disease / Fatty Liver in Birds

Could he be depressed months later realizing that gramps isnt coming back? Could he be arthritic?

Yes.....

Could he really be showing old age at 23 from the bad diet?

Yes, bad diets can cause an aging of the body as well as other maladies.....

Even tonight when I put him to bed he has an extremely hard time climbing down 6 inches to his perch. Just a struggle. Any advice is appreciated. Any people that have had these symptoms what was it and was it treatable. I dont want to loose him.

Without doing blood tests and the other tests the vet mentioned, a true determination of his underlying problems and it could be gout instead of arthritis.....I would go back to the vet & have the tests performed.....

Hope everything works out.....good luck.....

I'm with weco on this. Definitely, get the blood tests etc. done! I've just lost an Amazon to gout. It is treatable if it's done early, but it seems a lot of avian vets aren't even aware of gout in birds! It took the avian specialists 2 years to finally figure out that Pauli had gout, and by then it was too late.

Remember - birds don't show illness until they are really, genuinely sick. This is instinctive, as to show weakness is a sign to predators that you are easy prey, and in a wild setting would signal to other flock members that you are a draw on resources & need to be culled (that does happen - even in chickens). So...when a bird shows illness, it means she's been sick for some time & is now so ill she can no longer hide it.

Re: gout - check her feet closely. Any signs of redness on her pads? Any swelling of the joints or difficulty grasping a perch? These can be signs of gout - it is agonizingly painful, and needs pain meds, heat, etc. for treatment. From what I understand, gout is thought to result from a poor diet (and lack of vitamin A) in early life.

In any case - get her to a knowledgeable avian vet. If your current one isn't willing to investigate fully, find another vet...

Well im at a total loss. Shoppa, my grey, had a small seizure from what I can tell this morning. He fell straight from the top of the cage to the bottom. His head jerked back a few times before he fell then when he landed he was stiff as a board on his back freaking out. He did come out of it and get back up. I took him out of his big cage and put him in his bird bed and took him to the only emergency vet I could find. I was 2 hours away. I called before I left and they said they would take him. Get there and they said its out of their league and to take him to Washinton State University which is another 3 hours away. I called them willing to do whatever I could and they said they wouldnt take him today either. Wow.... Just no urgency or care. Wont take him today because the doc is off for the day. Hopefully he makes it through the night. Im going to call the vet that seen him on friday and see if he will take him in the morning. IDK what else to do....

I'm so sorry about your grey! Hoping you find the best care as quick as possible. They are such great birds.

A vet who did not do the blood work when you were there already and give you an antibiotic to give as a shot gun approach is not one I would be going back too.

Any time a vet wants to hand out an antibiotic you want to have a culture and sensitivity test run BEFORE you give any of the drug. You need to know EXACTLY what a bird (or human for that matter) has and the sensitivity test will tell the vet EXACTLY what drug will do the job. If you give an antibiotic before you know what it is that needs to be treated, you mess up any further testing until the drug is totally out of the body.

MacawLoverOf3 said:

A vet who did not do the blood work when you were there already and give you an antibiotic to give as a shot gun approach is not one I would be going back too.

Any time a vet wants to hand out an antibiotic you want to have a culture and sensitivity test run BEFORE you give any of the drug. You need to know EXACTLY what a bird (or human for that matter) has and the sensitivity test will tell the vet EXACTLY what drug will do the job. If you give an antibiotic before you know what it is that needs to be treated, you mess up any further testing until the drug is totally out of the body.

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So your saying going and getting tests run will be for nothing? What am I supposed to do then?

coachcorriemac said:

MacawLoverOf3 said:

A vet who did not do the blood work when you were there already and give you an antibiotic to give as a shot gun approach is not one I would be going back too.

Any time a vet wants to hand out an antibiotic you want to have a culture and sensitivity test run BEFORE you give any of the drug. You need to know EXACTLY what a bird (or human for that matter) has and the sensitivity test will tell the vet EXACTLY what drug will do the job. If you give an antibiotic before you know what it is that needs to be treated, you mess up any further testing until the drug is totally out of the body.

Click to expand...

So your saying going and getting tests run will be for nothing? What am I supposed to do then?

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I don't want to speak for MacawLoverOf3, but time is of the essence as it will soon be Monday. A broad spectrum of lab tests is indeed crucial and necessary for a scientifically valid diagnosis, but perhaps the vet's methodology of shotgunning an antibiotic is suspect. If you have the choice of multiple vets during normal business hours, another opinion may be valuable. If the original vet is the only game in town, better than nothing.

I hope Shoppa is feeling better and can be seen by a competent vet ASAP!

Keep him in a quiet, darkened place that can be noise free as possible.

Any zoos or aviaries nearby? They might have a specialist.

I'm so sorry that you and Shoppa are going through this. I can only imagine your frustration trying to find answers for what is happening to your grey.

I don't know where you live, but a search through this thread might yield some fruit in your search for a knowledgeable avian vet in your area: http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/9841-vets-your-area.html

I hope this helps. Please keep us updated.

I hope you are able to find a good avian vet closer to you...how frustrating for you
I hope Shoppa is going to be just fine, and another vet can advise you about testing with the antibiotics in Shoppa's system.
Please keep us updated, you both are in my thoughts.

Could be depression.

Sounds neurological to me (hard time climbing, etc.), but I'm not a vet.

I am really not qualified to offer an opinion on this one. Sorry.

Well I got him to the vet this morning. The same guy was my only hope. He looked very concerned and said we need to do blood and xray asap. He took the blood and sent it off to Washington St University. I wont know the results for some of it until tomorrow and I wont know if its metal toxicity for up to 5 days. I sure hope he can last that long. I feel so helpless or horrible for the bird. This just plain sucks. Ive been up all night, crying when I think about it. Not good at this. Hope and pray we get answers and get treatment done asap.

Xrays looked clear by the way. Nothing at all in those. I was surprised it was nearly 600 bucks too. Thats about $700 dollars so far. Adds up quick.

I'm so sorry that you and Shoppa are going through this right now. It's scary how quickly birds can go downhill. We'll all keep you in our thoughts and prayers, and I hope that you get your answer soon so that Shoppa can be nursed back to tip-top condition!

Thanks everyone, he made it through another night. He was really loopy this morning. He ate some food and drank some water then went back in and out of sleep like he has been. Looks so dang tired. I hope I get a call sooner rather than later!

Don't wait for them to call you. I would be calling them every hour until I got some answers!

Hope he gets better soon!

Amanda_Bennett said:

Don't wait for them to call you. I would be calling them every hour until I got some answers!

Hope he gets better soon!

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I second those thoughts! Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease - without being obnoxious. In the absence of a definitive treatment plan pending lab results, it is easy for us to assume the vet and staff are on top of the situation when they might be preoccupied with more immediate patients.

Most avian vet practices can do some basic in-house blood chemistry to begin a triage support plan pending diagnosis.

Avian medical care is expensive; they likely had to sedate Shoppa for imaging. Perhaps the blood-work is included with the $700 to date?

I just got a call from the vet. He said that he sent the xrays to WSU as well to be looked at by them. They told him that his liver looks abnormally small. So she was concerned about how small it was. All his blood work came back pretty clear though. Nothing wrong with him from the blood work standpoint on anything being to high or to low. He was pretty much close to perfect across the board. So the small liver is still doing its job it seems... Have to wait 3 more days now for the Toxic Metal determination. Doctor was pretty surprised at the results so far. Idk where to go from here. If its not metal toxicosis then what? To small of a liver to process everything? Might have to put him down? I sure hope not

I know it can be very frustrating when one of our birds has a condition that is not easily or readily diagnosed...I lost a sun conure to an aneurysm, thought to be a genetic defect.....something that could not be tested for.....here are several links you might want to read through:

Seizures in African Grey Parrots

Seizures in Birds | VCA Animal Hospitals

January 2012 Newsletter

Birds and Seizures - National Parrot | Examiner.com

Winged Wisdom Pet Bird Magazine - Seizures In Pet Birds