Probiotics?

So I had a gram stain done for Sydney as I noticed he wasn't eating as much and was acting a little off, though mostly normal.

Gram stain came back that there was a lot of gram negative bacteria and prescribed .5 ml of Baytril once a day (or .25 twice a day) for 5 days.

I know Baytril can also kill gram positive bacteria, so should I consider probiotics now or wait until after he's done his antibiotics? I've already been giving him apple cider vinegar in his water just to help prevent any yeast problems as well. Hopefully this clears up whatever is going on, but luckily there's no other symptoms than appetite really, though he's older so I want to take as many preventatives as I can.

I'm scheduled in three weeks to bring the kitten back, so I'll probably have a new gram stain done then too.

You can do probiotics now. It does help for the short amount of time they are in his system. They're better at doing what they do when they're not shocked by going through the digestive system and have time to set up shop in the GI, but they still can do some good when they're new.

If you can spread out the probiotic with the antibiotic by a few hours, this is best. I think it was 4 hours I was told that most antibiotics are active in the system.

Also probiotic is a great defense against yeast overgrowth, as is limiting foods with yeast in them until he's done with the antibiotic. I didn't know it until my birds were ill that yeast is actually a fungus! And bacteria and fungi balance each other out in a healthy body. When the good bacteria disappear, the yeast have no competition.

I hope Sydney is tip top again soon!

Piasa said:

You can do probiotics now. It does help for the short amount of time they are in his system. They're better at doing what they do when they're not shocked by going through the digestive system and have time to set up shop in the GI, but they still can do some good when they're new.

If you can spread out the probiotic with the antibiotic by a few hours, this is best. I think it was 4 hours I was told that most antibiotics are active in the system.

Also probiotic is a great defense against yeast overgrowth, as is limiting foods with yeast in them until he's done with the antibiotic. I didn't know it until my birds were ill that yeast is actually a fungus! And bacteria and fungi balance each other out in a healthy body. When the good bacteria disappear, the yeast have no competition.

I hope Sydney is tip top again soon!

Click to expand...

He usually gets Prime sprinkled on his veggies/fruits twice a week, but I'm considering getting a better probiotic just while he's on the antibiotics. I'm giving him the antibiotic once a day mixed with a little apple sauce though he's apprehensive (I don't blame him, it smells terrible.)

He's between 35-45, based on his import band, possibly older. I'm just hoping this doesn't become a trend with infections, though this is the first one that he's had. I'm also considering asking my vet about giving him something for arthritis but we'll see when he goes in for his next checkup, he seems to do okay, so I might be able to put it off for a little longer.

I would like to add that not all probiotics are created equal. Not even close. Due to the sensitive nature of lactobacillus, bifidobacterium, and pediococcus. You really need to be aware of the moisture of the other ingredients. I use Equa Holistics - I think it is the best, and the only one I consider at all safe/possibly has live cells is avi-culture.

Also please don't feed your bird one that contains Enterococcus faecium (streptococcus faecium) as it is not safe. It is known for antibiotic resistance and can gene transfer that to other bacteria. It is also a spore former!

macawluv said:

Also please don't feed your bird one that contains Enterococcus faecium (streptococcus faecium) as it is not safe. It is known for antibiotic resistance and can gene transfer that to other bacteria. It is also a spore former!

Click to expand...

I see no evidence that E. faecium in parrots causes antibiotic resistance, do you have a study on that? Some strains found in farm animals, mostly mammals, have shown slight resistance but none were found in avian pets according to this study, though it focuses more on growth promoting antibiotics, none of the antibiotics it showed resistance to are ever used with pet birds.

Differences in Antibiotic Resistance Patterns of Enterococcus faecalis and Enterococcus faecium Strains Isolated from Farm and Pet Animals

Any potential resistance studies I've found focus on poultry, not on psittacines, which are vastly different.

I think the bacteria you're referring to is E. faecalis specifically, which is different than E. faecium. E. faecium is found in avian probiotics, not E. faecalis.

Edit again, sorry. The genus of Enterococcus bacteria are also NOT spore formers. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19383684

I was not thinking of E. faecalis. Though E. faecium is only one plasmid away from that pathogenic bacteria... Here are a few links of summaries for you:

Prevalence and antibiotic resistance of Enterococcus strains isolated from poultry. - PubMed - NCBI
Studies on the drug resistance profile of Enterococcus faecium distributed from poultry retailers to hospitals. - PubMed - NCBI
The Physiology and Metabolism of Enterococci - Enterococci - NCBI Bookshelf

"Enterococci: From Commensals to Leading Causes of Drug Resistant Infection"

You don't generally have the same results with a search for lactobacillus and bifidobacterium antibiotic resistance- In fact, the leading manufacturer of lactobacillus, bifidobacterium, streptococcus thermophilus, and lactococcus lactis check and report the susceptibility of their strains of these species to antibiotics(no I do not work for them... I work for a different one).
You are right, they are not spore formers. I spoke incorrectly as a generalization due to the fact that they share many of the same characteristics as far as difficulty to get rid of, longevity in the environment, and pathogenic potential.

Respectfully, I would like to add that the article your sited about parrots is from 2001