Parrot chiropractor

SilleIN

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I have a scarlet macaw, who was imported to Denmark back in '94. He was imported for breeding purposes, so I can only assume, he was a good specimen as the initial importer kept him as a breeder bird for 11 years.

As he was never tame before, the way the breeders caught him to move him, was with a net. This has caused his left wing to break at some stage.

Today when you look at him, he looks kind of lopsided. His right wing is drooping, his left wing is sort of pointing in the wrong direction and his back is slightly curved and bent to the left.

I have found a vet, who specialises in treating small animals (guinea pigs etc) using chiropractic methods. I have made an apointment with her and am looking forward to see if that could help Tino in any way.

I am curious to hear if any of you have any experiences with such practices. If not, your thoughts are also very welcome. I am willing to do almost anything to help him get a better life, but must admit it also scares me a little.
 

SailBoat

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I have a scarlet macaw, who was imported to Denmark back in '94. He was imported for breeding purposes, so I can only assume, he was a good specimen as the initial importer kept him as a breeder bird for 11 years.

As he was never tame before, the way the breeders caught him to move him, was with a net. This has caused his left wing to break at some stage.

Today when you look at him, he looks kind of lopsided. His right wing is drooping, his left wing is sort of pointing in the wrong direction and his back is slightly curved and bent to the left.

I have found a vet, who specialises in treating small animals (guinea pigs etc) using chiropractic methods. I have made an apointment with her and am looking forward to see if that could help Tino in any way.

I am curious to hear if any of you have any experiences with such practices. If not, your thoughts are also very welcome. I am willing to do almost anything to help him get a better life, but must admit it also scares me a little.

STOP! Prior to any Vet (or individual) preforming 'Chiropractic Services' on a Parrot have a Certified Avian Vet (CAV) or a Avian Qualified Vet (AQV) preform a 'series' of X-rays to determine whether there are in fact broken or displaced joints /bones and the amount of scar material around those broken or displaced joints /bones.

Manipulation of Joints can only safely be preformed on healthy Joints and Bones. If a Joint /Bone is locked as a result of it being broken, held in place by scar material or altered as a result of loss of bone density or other ailment that Joint /Bone can easily be further damaged.

It is important to understand that the 'Art' of Chiropractic activity can only return a joint or bone to is natural position if it and its surrounding muscles are healthy! 'Most' actions that Chiropractor's preform are as a result of muscles that have pushed the Joint or Bone out of location. They are simply resetting those Joints and Bones.

The most a Chiropractor can do with a Broken /Damages Joint or Bone is to induce some movement. Without a proper 'series' of X-rays that would be a very risky process.
 
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Scott

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Wow, I can only express awe in the completeness of Sailboat's post!!

On the face of it, perhaps manipulation may help, but only after a thorough analysis by an Avian Vet. I would want to know whether the chiropractor has studied bird anatomy and has referenced patients for your review. I applaud you for thinking "out of the box" to help your Scarlet.
 

wrench13

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Denmark must have some very progressive Vet programs there, as I've never heard of Chiropractice being used on animals. My wife sees one 2 x a week for a spinal disorder, stenosis. And its a very intimate , subjective treatment she receives, with a lot of questioning after each session. I do not see how such treatment could be held valid for animals, and birds specifically.
 
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SilleIN

SilleIN

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Thank you Steven! I must admit, I might cancel my appointment. What she told me, was that she would not manipulate anything (she called it a "soft" chiropractice), but would feel along his spine and see if there was the correct movement of the joints. If there were not, she would massage the muscles and ligaments around the area and see if this would loosen the tention. I would never let her "crack" any bones. What do you all thing about that? Could that be dangerous or should I postpone the appointment until I have a full X-ray of his body? As for her skills, I am quite confindent, she knows the skeleton of the bird. She is a vet, who have additional years of training/education to become a chiropractor. She only does chiropractice and does no longer does "regular" vet "things".

Chiropractice on animals is quite common here. My horses, who compete, get regular check ups from a vet, specialised in chiropractice on animals. We might be nuts here, but we give our pets chiropractors, health spa's the lot :04:

When you think, that this country is only slightly bigger than Maryland and only about 5 mio people, it might seem pretty weird to have about 5 equine health spa's where they are offered an array of treatments from swimmingpools to water spa(bubbles and all) to massage. I have no idea how many dog/cat spa's there are, but there are MANY!

Pets here are usually regarded as an equal family member and are often cremated and burried in a graveyard for animals. I actually think there are more pet graveyards than muslim graveyards... Pretty weird thought, if you think about it.

I don't think I am much different, than the rest of us kooks. I sleep every night with at least one parrot in my bed. Either under the covers:
sillein-albums-destino-picture17971-tino-sleeping-under-covers.jpg

Or on the covers on top of me:
sillein-albums-destino-picture17972-when-tino-s-hot-laying-covers.jpg
 

SailBoat

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My concern - making even light contact without the knowledge provided by a full series of X-rays!

Unlike dogs, cats, horses, etc... Bird skeleton are very different as are the bones (light-weight structures). The load centers are totally different, think flying compared to running as is the muscular configurations.

As a trained Vet and secondary a trained Chiropractor, even with limited exposure - she 'should' know of those differences. I assume that you have informed her of the 'physical /structural /skeletal' problem that your MAC faces.

I can fully understand the knowledge gained by simple and light massage of the muscles, ligaments and skeletal components. As an individual with the proper training can quickly determine structural positioning and muscle compression zones. However, a North America Chiropractor with Human Clients would 'never' consider placing even light hand contact with such a history as your MAC without first viewing X-rays.

The Chiropractor Field has worked long to separate itself from the Medical Field and both tend to make demeaning comments of each others professions. Both attempting to out demonizing the other. The Chiropractors will call the Medical group "Pill Pushers." Where the Medical Group will call the others "Bone Crackers." The sad reality is that both live-off each other's screw-ups.

Cracking is a term used by Clients regarding what they think is happening! The 'sound' is a bone that has moved (popped) back into position.

It is important to understand that Clients of Chiropractors never seem to come to a point that their services are no longer needed. Yes, as a result of the 'work' done, the client 'feels' better, but with time, they will need to return for maintenance work to keep the structure from returning to its off-set (out of position) location.

Once again, my concern is not wanting to have the visual of the X-rays to define what cannot be seen or felt. I would recommend that you consider a continued search until you find one that demands a full series of X-rays (without your encouragement) prior to seeing your MAC, let alone placing hands-on.


Thank you Steven! I must admit, I might cancel my appointment. What she told me, was that she would not manipulate anything (she called it a "soft" chiropractice), but would feel along his spine and see if there was the correct movement of the joints. If there were not, she would massage the muscles and ligaments around the area and see if this would loosen the tention. I would never let her "crack" any bones. What do you all thing about that? Could that be dangerous or should I postpone the appointment until I have a full X-ray of his body? As for her skills, I am quite confindent, she knows the skeleton of the bird. She is a vet, who have additional years of training/education to become a chiropractor. She only does chiropractice and does no longer does "regular" vet "things".
 
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SilleIN

SilleIN

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Thank you, that does it! I will cancel. I will try to find another pet chiropractor. I will call my vet on Monday and ask for an appointment for full x-rays and hear him, if he knows any pet chiropractors, he would recommend.
 

coopedup

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Years ago I used a chiropractor (In Georgia) for my horse when we were competing along with accupuncture and b-12 injections. You could almost hear him sigh in relief. There is a chiro in LA who treats people and dogs...it's not just a LA thing :D. And yeah, up until a few days ago, my bird slept with me too. Hubby kicked him out finally.
 

Scott

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I recall my previous avian vet offers non-traditional healing using herbal medicine, acupuncture, and chiropractic services for specific animals.

Because the OP topic specifies chiropractic services, I located a link to a Veterinary Orthopedic Manipulation site. Note they specifically mention protocols for dogs, cats and horses. Veterinary Orthopedic Manipulation and Laser Therapy
 

Kentuckienne

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Just a comment...Gus also has some crookedness in his body. It's because he didn't get correct nutrition, especially not enough calcium, when he was young so he developed metabolic bone disease. His bones bent and became deformed, then hardened in that deformed state. He has a large hump in his spine that causes his internal organs to be compressed, and has to strain to poop and to breathe. This could be responsible gorgeous your sweetheart's bent seeming joints, and X-rays will establish a definitive diagnosis. Gus does like to have his muscles rubbed, and you could do the same gentle massage - and it would be less stressful, maybe. If a bird tenses up when handled by a stranger, massaging won't do any good and could do harm. Your own gentle touch is the best medicine.
 
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SilleIN

SilleIN

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I have an update on my findings.

I contacted my avian vet and asked him about my thoughts and if he could recommend anyone. He didn't know any, but when I asked about the vet I had been in contact with, he didn't have any objections.

It turns out, that the chiropractor is the person teaching anatomy at the royal veterinary school in Denmark (the only veterinary school in all of Scandinavia) and is the leading researcher in veterinary anatomy in the country. I must have misunderstood her, when I called her, but is true, that she doesn't do regular veterinary work- she teaches coming vets and makes research published in veterinary journals.

I ended up not cancelling my appointment and I am VERY happy I didn't.

Tino is a lot more active and has started to vocalize a lot more, than before.

This is the first time I have ever seen Tino be straight
sillein-albums-destino-picture18028-tino-after-chiropractor.jpg


His wings are not straight yet, but I have booked more sessions. Tino is doing so great, that I have removed his collar, as he doesn't really do anymore frustration bites at himself anymore.

I do realise that I will have to expect some regress at some stage, but now after 2 sessions (the photo is from the first session- I didn't have anyone to help with a photo after the second) Tino's doing great.
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Fascinating! Can you describe what sort of manipulation she does with Tino? Is it limited to leg/wing joints and head area, or also the central skeletal area?
 

SailBoat

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I am very happy that things have turned out the way they have!

I must admit, that I am still very puzzled that even with and more specifically because of her vast knowledge, that she would proceed without the x-rays! I understand that with her vast knowledge, she would be able to feel positioning and to some degree the condition of a bone, joint or both. But even so, the visual provided by an x-ray would provide so much more information.

May she continue to be as success with your Parrot.
 

Teddscau

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I remember watching this show on tv several years ago. This poor shark at an aquarium had slipped a disk, and he was in a lot of pain and was having trouble swimming. So, they called in this chiropractor to help realign his is spine, and I was amazed! He actually fixed the shark's back, and the (not so) little guy was completely better! Fudge, well, I can't seem to find the video. I'm just getting a bunch of stuff on chiropractors, Shark Tank, humans hurting sharks, and humans being afraid of sharks. Then this one thing came up about how a diver found a poor nurse shark with a knife sticking out of their head.
 

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