Cockatoo with probable liver issues

Anna_Oblomova

New member
Jun 21, 2017
7
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Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
Hello everyone :)

We have had our parrots and parakeets for years now and I love each and every one of them. But Fidel, our rose-breasted cockatoo, is my child and I love him with my life. He has had numerous serious injuries and sicknesses over the years and has been on the brink of death multiple times, to name a few: when he still was young, he suddenly became very ill, he had a toe bitten off by my African Grey and almost bled out, he had a severe electric shock by biting an electrical cord, et cetera, et cetera. All of which were horrendous terrifying experiences. Due to all these things I am always very concerned about Fidel, with the smallest things causing me huge anxiety.

I noticed for over more than a year that my Fidel was sleeping more than usual, with his head in his feathers and both feet on the perch. I was extremely worried over this and had taken him to the vet for this at two different times. She gave him a general medical inspection both times and found nothing wrong with him.

Last week I suddenly became aware Fidel was making a weird noise from his nose breathing. He had no signs of having a cold, only the nose-noise and being tired. The vet made an x-ray and did swaps to test for Chlamydia and did a general blood work too. This was almost a week ago, the Chlamydia test came back negative yesterday, the blood work is not known yet. The vet saw nothing concerning on the x-ray, except for some - more than usual - calcifications in the kidneys. She decided to ask for a second opinion for evaluating the x-ray. This avian specialist vet connected to the department of veterinary medicine from a university however noticed a swelling (probably from the liver) pressing against the air sacs, and thought of hepatic lipidosis (fatty liver disease) or cancer/a tumor.

Since I got this news that my loved one is maybe/probably terminally ill, Iā€™m inconsolable and crying non-stop, while Iā€™m typing this too. I feel so quilty and Iā€™m so afraid to lose him, I canā€™t find the words to describe my fears and angst.

The last few days his condition seems to be getting worse, heā€™s letting his wings hang a litte besides his body sleeping with his eyes closed. Iā€™m hoping the added sleepiness is due to the stressfull visits to the vet (two times in one week, taking swaps, drawing blood, holding him for the x-ray) and that the seemingly intensified heavy or laboured breathing is caused by the heatwave that has currently struck my country.

Some background information: Fidel is 10 years old and weighed on his last visit to the vet 485 grams. I always offer him fresh fruits and vegetables each day, but he only throws this out of his tray. He also gets pellets daily, but he never eats them, so everyday I give him a very rich and diverse seed mix too, which also contains sunflower seeds. I know this is very bad for him, but he refuses to eat healthy food.

What is the best diet for him to put him on (I heard mostly vegetables with little fruit and pellets, is this all?)? I heard of the circus diet, consisting of 20% sprouted seeds, 20% pellets, 20% vegetable-fruit mix (75% of which vegetables, 25% fruit), 20% beans, rice, corn and 20% healthy snacks or treats. Would this be suited for Fidel? Donā€™t the beans/rice/corn contain too much fat? Do you have tips for me to help him make the transition and accept the new food?
Does any of you have a similar experience with a parrot with liver problems (cancer or fat tumors, or fatty liver disease)?
I would be immensely grateful to hear from you. Any advice is very much wanted and appreciated. Thank you so much.
 

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BoomBoom

Well-known member
May 2, 2012
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Parrots
Boomer (Sun Conure 9 yrs), Pewpew (Budgie 5 yrs), Ulap (Budgie 2 yrs), Eight & Kiki (Beloved Budgies, RIP)
Sorry to hear this is happening :(

I'm not familiar with cockatoo diet but if it's FLD, his diet needs to be low fat. That means lots more ratio of veggies, then grain, then fruits, nuts, etc. The diet sample you posted looks good to me.

Look into aloe vera supplements (Lily of the Desert). I heard good things about it. I bought it for my parakeet who I suspect has FLD. Vet approved it, just haven't used yet because I need to finish his 30 day prescribed calcium meds. Also look into milk thistle powder, some suggest it is good for FLD. Vet approved it also. I am using this now. But check all these with your vet first.

Try to lessen stress when you can. The vet visits really take a lot out of them. Best of luck.
 
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Scott

Supporting Member
Aug 21, 2010
32,673
9,789
San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Parrots
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Welcome to the forums, Anna. I am sorry you are joining under stressful circumstances. Despite illness, Fidel is strikingly beautiful in the attached photo.

Is Fidel seeing an avian certified vet? Very important as many vets will see "exotics" without the necessary advanced medicine. A best practice is to have the X-Rays read secondarily by a radiologist. Hopefully the blood panel results will be available soon - seems a fast and proper diagnosis is critical.

Several members have experience with fatty liver disease. Many believe oral dosages of a specific aloe vera liquid to be very helpful. If this is a diagnosis, a low-fat diet may be helpful. Unfortunately seed is the highest concentrated fat source. A good quality pellet is far better, and you can add small quantities of seed. Perhaps begin by removing the sunflower seeds? Have you tried serving fresh vegetables and fruits for most the day without having seeds available? Since they are flock-eaters, making a dish for yourself and eating with Fidel may spark interest.

This link has ideas for a healthier diet: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html
Perhaps Fidel would like a special bird-bread? http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/65841-poppy-s-jolly-jungle-bread.html

We all can empathize with the angst of unknown health issues. Wishing you and Fidel the very best. In the meanwhile, take cover from the heat. Spray or mister bottles may help Fidel to remain comfortable. Please keep us updated!
 

Freebird1969

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Feb 20, 2017
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Surrey, UK
Parrots
Coco (Pitball) oven ready female Citron Cockatoo,
Suki, soppy soft and silky female MSC,
Oliver Belly (Cuddle Monster) Male U2
Bandit & Gizmo (green goblins) Lineolated Parakeets
Sorry to hear this, he is very heavy for a Galah and I really think a diet will help a.s.a.p. Sadly a birds liver does not repair itself like a humans. Milk thistle drops have been proven to help a birds liver though.

Please completely take out sunflower seeds from his diet and any fatty treats. If you feel he won't eat anything else please don't threat. When he is hungry enough he will soon start eating the healthier stuff. Galah's should always been fed on a parakeet mix rather than a parrot mix. You must also be very careful with a pellet diet, most pellet's are predominately made up of peanuts! I personally don't like pellets, if you read the ingredients I think you would be shocked at the amount of peanuts that go into making them. He needs plenty of fruit and veg, pulses etc, try some brown pasta too.

Your avian vet should be able to tell you about thistle milk, you can put a couple of drops in the water.

Another thing you can do to help him loose weight try and keep him as active as possible, exercise does us all good :).

Galah's average 330 grams, if you can try to weight him once a week, its good to weight any pet birds regularly as it can be the first sign of illness if they start looking weight. Birds are great at hiding illness from us.

Fingers crossed for your little one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Vogel-Mi...8&qid=1498208857&sr=8-3&keywords=thistle+milk
 

plumsmum2005

New member
Nov 18, 2015
5,330
94
England, UK
Parrots
Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
Hi Anna I am sorry for what you are going through, which is the same as me with Plum who is 12. Plum also has a heart murmur and Bradycardia, down spells are approx 6-9 months apart at the moment. During these spells he does not eat much and his weight drops, droppings become very wet, sloppy/slimy and brownish coloured. RB2's are devils for their seed and become very crafty. If Plum knows he may get a few later in the day he will hold off eating the 'good' stuff.

Please try and get some weight off him, even if he only waddles around the floor a bit to start, would not want you to stress an already unwell bird. I have tried Aloe Detox and cannot say if it has done any good really. If you can get some in him in a high strength concentration then maybe. Plum fights like a devil if he sees a syringe. Milk Thistle is good in conjunction with antibiotics. Milk Thistle seeds/liquid has a bitter taste and not easily taken to. What are the droppings like? Colour and consistency?

I am weighing Plum's food each portion aiming no more than 25g per portion of chop http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/60500-stressing-food-not-anymore-chop-convert.html with some sprouted seeds/beans and he gets a few TOPS Organics pellets which I feel are important as he is so fussy, they fill in some of the gaps, along with 2/3 Lafaber Nutriberries (with consent from my AV). If your boy has FLD then he is prob short on Vit B also. You will need to be careful how much carbs you add to fresh foods as they eat those first. Sit and eat with him. You may get away with some Milk Thistle which is also called VBS Liquid Hepato from the vets and or Aloe Detox on a small slither of 20 minute hard boiled egg ie 1/4 sliced ring. A big part, totally frustrating is that these birds do not want to be active. Withdraw all seed and nuts for now. Also important that no additional stress on organs so no salt, sugar, fat is important. Sprouted seeds is excellent source of nutrition and easily digestible.

485g is serious. He is so sleepy because he is unwell and should be admitted into Avian Veterinary care immediately IMO. From experience medicines can be administered more easily and effectively via a crop feed from a trained vet nurse. A blood test will confirm his blood cholesterol level which is probably high. X-rays and Ultra sound can also confirm liver problems. Re-reading your post I am unsure it is infact FLD but the tests hopefully will reveal the problem. He could have been breathing worse during the tests as it made his breathing harder. BTW Plum has always been good and accepted treatment, thank goodness.

This isnt nice to go through but you will need a clear head. Is your vet experienced with this condition in birds? Birds with FLD need care when taking blood as they risk bleeding. Apologies if seem little brusk, wanted to give you as much as poss to help your boy! My beloved boy will not be long lived I realise that, but I try and do the very best for him, definitely quality over quantity in a situation like this. Make every day count.

https://topsparrotfood.com/product/tops-crumplets/
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/birdfood/cockatiel-nutri-berries/ (Yes Cockatiel ones, parrot ones are very hard)

Edit: http://www.birdhealth.com.au/cholesterol-problems
 
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Anna_Oblomova

New member
Jun 21, 2017
7
0
Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
  • Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear this is happening :(

I'm not familiar with cockatoo diet but if it's FLD, his diet needs to be low fat. That means lots more ratio of veggies, then grain, then fruits, nuts, etc. The diet sample you posted looks good to me.

Look into aloe vera supplements (Lily of the Desert). I heard good things about it. I bought it for my parakeet who I suspect has FLD. Vet approved it, just haven't used yet because I need to finish his 30 day prescribed calcium meds. Also look into milk thistle powder, some suggest it is good for FLD. Vet approved it also. I am using this now. But check all these with your vet first.

Try to lessen stress when you can. The vet visits really take a lot out of them. Best of luck.

Thank you so much for your response, it really means a lot to me! I googled all around the web and read that too about the aloe vera and the milk whistle. Iā€™m planning on discussing this with the vet and giving it to him. Iā€™m prepared to do everything I can if it will help him. May I ask how you plan to give the aloe vera to your bird? In his water, over his food, in pure form through a syringe? And how do you provide him with the milk whistle? Is powder recommended to be better suited than a liquid extract?
I really want to thank you again for your reply and advice! I hope everything is okay with your parakeet!
 
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A

Anna_Oblomova

New member
Jun 21, 2017
7
0
Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
  • Thread Starter
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  • #7
Welcome to the forums, Anna. I am sorry you are joining under stressful circumstances. Despite illness, Fidel is strikingly beautiful in the attached photo.

Is Fidel seeing an avian certified vet? Very important as many vets will see "exotics" without the necessary advanced medicine. A best practice is to have the X-Rays read secondarily by a radiologist. Hopefully the blood panel results will be available soon - seems a fast and proper diagnosis is critical.

Several members have experience with fatty liver disease. Many believe oral dosages of a specific aloe vera liquid to be very helpful. If this is a diagnosis, a low-fat diet may be helpful. Unfortunately seed is the highest concentrated fat source. A good quality pellet is far better, and you can add small quantities of seed. Perhaps begin by removing the sunflower seeds? Have you tried serving fresh vegetables and fruits for most the day without having seeds available? Since they are flock-eaters, making a dish for yourself and eating with Fidel may spark interest.

This link has ideas for a healthier diet: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/23367-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html
Perhaps Fidel would like a special bird-bread? http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/65841-poppy-s-jolly-jungle-bread.html

We all can empathize with the angst of unknown health issues. Wishing you and Fidel the very best. In the meanwhile, take cover from the heat. Spray or mister bottles may help Fidel to remain comfortable. Please keep us updated!

Thank you so much for your kind reply and the helpful tips and provided links! Fidelā€™s regular vet is not a specialized avian vet, but has more than average knowledge of birds and has great interest in and affinity with birds. More importantly however she consults everything with an avian certified vet connected to the veterinary science department specialized in birds. It was on his advice that they did an extra x-ray from Fidel, but then a side-way/lateral view. But itā€™s so frustrating that the blood work has come in (I called for this yesterday), but isnā€™t discussed yet with the specialist, the same goes for the second x-ray photo. So Iā€™m still in the dark about everything and anxiously awaiting a phone call. From now on though I decided Iā€™m going to go tot his specialist directly, despite the distance.

Thanks again!
 
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Anna_Oblomova

New member
Jun 21, 2017
7
0
Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
  • Thread Starter
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Sorry to hear this, he is very heavy for a Galah and I really think a diet will help a.s.a.p. Sadly a birds liver does not repair itself like a humans. Milk thistle drops have been proven to help a birds liver though.

Please completely take out sunflower seeds from his diet and any fatty treats. If you feel he won't eat anything else please don't threat. When he is hungry enough he will soon start eating the healthier stuff. Galah's should always been fed on a parakeet mix rather than a parrot mix. You must also be very careful with a pellet diet, most pellet's are predominately made up of peanuts! I personally don't like pellets, if you read the ingredients I think you would be shocked at the amount of peanuts that go into making them. He needs plenty of fruit and veg, pulses etc, try some brown pasta too.

Your avian vet should be able to tell you about thistle milk, you can put a couple of drops in the water.

Another thing you can do to help him loose weight try and keep him as active as possible, exercise does us all good :).

Galah's average 330 grams, if you can try to weight him once a week, its good to weight any pet birds regularly as it can be the first sign of illness if they start looking weight. Birds are great at hiding illness from us.

Fingers crossed for your little one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/A-Vogel-Mi...8&qid=1498208857&sr=8-3&keywords=thistle+milk

Yes, you are so right, he has his wings clipped and doesnā€™t really move at all. He only climbs down his cage when I open the door to let him out. I started to let him ā€˜wiggleā€™ around on the floor, although it breaks my heart a little, because he only walks up and down in front of me, wanting me to pick him up or trying to climb up through my leg.

I have already bought a kitchen scale, so I can indeed begin weighing him once a week. I ordered Harrisonā€™s bird pellets and began sprouting seeds. How do you provide your birds with the pulses? Cooked, sprouted, dried?

I really want to thank you for your advice, it means the world to me!
 
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Anna_Oblomova

New member
Jun 21, 2017
7
0
Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
  • Thread Starter
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Hi Anna I am sorry for what you are going through, which is the same as me with Plum who is 12. Plum also has a heart murmur and Bradycardia, down spells are approx 6-9 months apart at the moment. During these spells he does not eat much and his weight drops, droppings become very wet, sloppy/slimy and brownish coloured. RB2's are devils for their seed and become very crafty. If Plum knows he may get a few later in the day he will hold off eating the 'good' stuff.

Please try and get some weight off him, even if he only waddles around the floor a bit to start, would not want you to stress an already unwell bird. I have tried Aloe Detox and cannot say if it has done any good really. If you can get some in him in a high strength concentration then maybe. Plum fights like a devil if he sees a syringe. Milk Thistle is good in conjunction with antibiotics. Milk Thistle seeds/liquid has a bitter taste and not easily taken to. What are the droppings like? Colour and consistency?

I am weighing Plum's food each portion aiming no more than 25g per portion of chop http://www.parrotforums.com/eclectus/60500-stressing-food-not-anymore-chop-convert.html with some sprouted seeds/beans and he gets a few TOPS Organics pellets which I feel are important as he is so fussy, they fill in some of the gaps, along with 2/3 Lafaber Nutriberries (with consent from my AV). If your boy has FLD then he is prob short on Vit B also. You will need to be careful how much carbs you add to fresh foods as they eat those first. Sit and eat with him. You may get away with some Milk Thistle which is also called VBS Liquid Hepato from the vets and or Aloe Detox on a small slither of 20 minute hard boiled egg ie 1/4 sliced ring. A big part, totally frustrating is that these birds do not want to be active. Withdraw all seed and nuts for now. Also important that no additional stress on organs so no salt, sugar, fat is important. Sprouted seeds is excellent source of nutrition and easily digestible.

485g is serious. He is so sleepy because he is unwell and should be admitted into Avian Veterinary care immediately IMO. From experience medicines can be administered more easily and effectively via a crop feed from a trained vet nurse. A blood test will confirm his blood cholesterol level which is probably high. X-rays and Ultra sound can also confirm liver problems. Re-reading your post I am unsure it is infact FLD but the tests hopefully will reveal the problem. He could have been breathing worse during the tests as it made his breathing harder. BTW Plum has always been good and accepted treatment, thank goodness.

This isnt nice to go through but you will need a clear head. Is your vet experienced with this condition in birds? Birds with FLD need care when taking blood as they risk bleeding. Apologies if seem little brusk, wanted to give you as much as poss to help your boy! My beloved boy will not be long lived I realise that, but I try and do the very best for him, definitely quality over quantity in a situation like this. Make every day count.

https://topsparrotfood.com/product/tops-crumplets/
https://lafeber.com/pet-birds/birdfood/cockatiel-nutri-berries/ (Yes Cockatiel ones, parrot ones are very hard)

Edit: birdhealth

Iā€™m so sad to learn about your galah Plum. At least itā€™s a small consolation he is not suffering from the severe symptoms all of the time and he has good periods too. I really hope at the moment he is doing good under the circumstances.

I already took away all of the sunflower seeds from his diet. I weighed him this morning and he was now 465 grams, 20 grams less. I hope this is due to the elimination of the sunflower seeds, not from losing weight because of sickness. His droppings are completely normal in color and consistency. What I do notice is that he preens and cleans himself excessively hours on a day, I read that FLD can cause an itchy dry skin.
Accept from this and the lethargic behavior and the laboured breathing, he isnā€™t showing other signs. And I only notice the difficult breathing (nose sound, letting his wings hang a little, the latter only for the last few days, maybe because of the extreme heat) when he is resting in his cage. When he is out of the cage he seems to be breathing normal, being active, playful, and naughty. I know however this says nothing and is not representative, because birds are masters of disguise when it comes to not feeling well. He got a shot of antibiotics last week, but I donā€™t know if it has done him something good.

I really value the specific information you provided about Plums medications. This can be very helpfull, I really appreciate it a lot. Thank you so much!
 
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plumsmum2005

New member
Nov 18, 2015
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94
England, UK
Parrots
Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
Iā€™m so sad to learn about your galah Plum. At least itā€™s a small consolation he is not suffering from the severe symptoms all of the time and he has good periods too. I really hope at the moment he is doing good under the circumstances.

I already took away all of the sunflower seeds from his diet. I weighed him this morning and he was now 465 grams, 20 grams less. I hope this is due to the elimination of the sunflower seeds, not from losing weight because of sickness. His droppings are completely normal in color and consistency. What I do notice is that he preens and cleans himself excessively hours on a day, I read that FLD can cause an itchy dry skin.
Accept from this and the lethargic behavior and the laboured breathing, he isnā€™t showing other signs. And I only notice the difficult breathing (nose sound, letting his wings hang a little, the latter only for the last few days, maybe because of the extreme heat) when he is resting in his cage. When he is out of the cage he seems to be breathing normal, being active, playful, and naughty. I know however this says nothing and is not representative, because birds are masters of disguise when it comes to not feeling well. He got a shot of antibiotics last week, but I donā€™t know if it has done him something good.

I really value the specific information you provided about Plums medications. This can be very helpfull, I really appreciate it a lot. Thank you so much!
Hi and thanks. Couple of points I am picking up on. 20g drop over what time frame? Plum drops similar big amounts quite quickly on these down spells and is one signal to take him into the AV.

Was it just a shot of antibiotics and you were not given any for medicating at home? Plum gets the shot mentioned and then 10/14 days worth of tablets. Have you an air purifier near his cage for the fluff and dust they produce? Will help circulate the air a little also.

Edit: Plum is also given Lactulose by AV, sorry forgot to mention. Helps if you place all food pots low in the cage as it makes them move about for it.

Aloe link http://www.lilyofthedesert.com/product/aloe-herbal-detox-formula/
another link http://www.birdhealth.com.au/organic-beans
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2606
 
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Anna_Oblomova

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Jun 21, 2017
7
0
Parrots
Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
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Hello,
After not getting in touch with Fidels regular vet, who promised to consult with the specialist as soon as possible, I phoned to demand the x-rays and the blood results to be mailed to me, so I could send these to the avian specialist vet directly.
The specialist viewed the dorsoventral and lateral x-ray and based on these photoā€™s he thinks itā€™s either a considerably enlarged liver or fluid in the abdominal cavity, or a combination of both, either way giving him difficulty breathing normally. The enlarged liver could be caused by fatty liver disease, general fat accumulations in his body cavity, fat deposits surrounding blood vessels, benign or malignant tumors or fluid. He did say that whatever the cause, itā€™s in any case very serious. Iā€™m going with Fidel to see the specialst in person, when possible Monday, also for Fidel to undergo additional examinations and tests (more specified blood tests, ultrasound, x-ray with contrast fluid), to hopefully come to a conclusive diagnosis
The results of the blood test I forgot to add as an attachment in my mail, and I send these early this evening. I dont know when I can expect an answer from him considering itā€™s weekend and he already took a lot of time to answer my questions.
In persisting anxiety I try to google the test results myself, but didnā€™t find them comforting.
LDH is 907 U/L (should be between 220 and 550)
AST (GOT) is severely increased with 1357 U/L (should be between 100 and 500)
Bile Acids is 108 umol/L (should be no more than 70)
CPK (Creatinine Phosphokinase) is 488 IU/L (shoud be between 100 and 300)
So the increased liver enzyms would make it very likely that itā€™s a liver disease. But the levels I read can also be caused by heart or muscle damage (the elevated LDH, AST and CPK). Does any of you know something more about this? Can the increased levels be the result of fatty liver disease or does this point more towards an even more severe liver problem?
I know itā€™s stupid and foolish trying to make sense of these things myself, but Iā€™m so worried sick over my baby, I can barely sleep more than a hour or two. Fidel is not doing better, nor doing worse. The moment I let him out of his cage, you wouldnā€™t suspect he is not well, he chews his wooden toys, eats, is alert and responsive, talks, even screams. But in his cage he mostly sits sleeping sadly with his eyes closed. Please, what would you recommend or advise me to do? Let him out as much as possible, because he seems to be feeling better at those moments, maybe because of the attention and diversion, or let him rest and sleep (maybe to recuperate himself a little)?
PS: Thanks a lot Plumsmum for your concern and helpful advise and suggestions!
 

Scott

Supporting Member
Aug 21, 2010
32,673
9,789
San Diego, California USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Parrots
Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Found some information; this source suggests high bile acids followed by high Alpha-2, AST, LDH, and Alpha-1 are indicators of liver disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18543598

More info about liver disease: http://avianmedicine.net/content/uploads/2013/08/15_evaluating_liver.pdf

https://lafeber.com/vet/nutritional-management-of-liver-disease-in-birds/

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...034028&usg=AFQjCNHecJJ85h1_KBoT2nqMqu11u71y1w

Given the specificity of Fidel's results, I would imagine a skilled avian specialist should arrive at a reasonably conclusive diagnosis and offer treatment options. It will be very helpful for you to do independent research.

I would hope an ultrasound will better detail the possible abnormalities in the abdominal cavity.

Good luck, do to try to get some rest, and please keep us updated with Fidel's diagnosis.
 

plumsmum2005

New member
Nov 18, 2015
5,330
94
England, UK
Parrots
Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
Hi Anna

Just a point I have picked up along the way with Plum is that FLD is not the only cause of Liver problems see below.

https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/liver-disorders-in-birds

Does Fidel's beak and nails grow very fast?

Re this question posed earlier, "How do you provide your birds with the pulses? Cooked, sprouted, dried"
Soak beans/pulses 8 hrs/overnight in fridge, rinse and drain 4 times.
Have read you can microwave 1-15 minutes but I dont prefer the old way ie simmer on stove for 1/2 hours.
Rinse and serve. Poss to freeze into smaller portions for later use.

If he is happy out then give him the opportunity, better for him to move about IMO. A mix of both is ideal.
When Plum is not well he goes up the corner of his cage and not keen on his mum even.

Did you know that red beets belong to a cleansing food category? Main effect on cells, kidneys, liver and blood. Kidneys, cleansing effect, liver they promote regeneration of cells. Beets increase oxygen to the blood and support cleansing by ridding toxic waste, they support the formation of new blood cells and enhance resistance and help normalise the body's pH.
Won't hurt to add little to his diet.

Be strong, he needs you, make sure you rest it is important.


 
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Teddscau

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Sep 25, 2015
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Budgies: Sunshine, Blanco, Azure; Peach-faced lovebirds: Rosie and Jaybird; YSA: Jasper (ā™€)
Here's how to get him to eat his veggies: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-food-recipes-diet/63942-most-nutritious-birdie-bread.html

You can exclude the berries, since they're basically useless. And expensive. The nuts and seeds aren't exactly great for birds with liver problems, but at least their healthy fats will encourage him to try the bread. Then, you can include half as many seeds and nuts in the next batch.

As Plum said, I'd get him Lily of the Desert Liver Detox. I'd also buy Bird RX Milk Thistle/Dandelion Root Liver Detox. Not only does the dandelion root detox the liver, but I find it helps to kill cancer cells.

Oh, and while you're trying to get him to eat veggies, you can collect fresh grass seed for him. Go outside, away from roads, pollution, pesticides, etc., and get him some grass that has seed on it. Wash it thoroughly with soap and water, then give it to him. I like collecting the seed that isn't fully ripe. Grass seed should be lower in fat than he normally gets, and as an Australian species, he should enjoy eating grass seed.

I'd also make sure he stays nice and warm (when my guys don't feel well, I crank up the heat to at least 80Ā°F). I'd also have scheduled fun times throughout the day. I'd encourage reading kids' books to him, listening to his favourite music, training, cuddling, etc. Also, is he fully flighted? I'd encourage him to fly, but don't let him overdo it.

You can also try juicing. Get organic veggies, wash them, then juice them (carrots, dandelion leaves, tomatoes, etc.). You can try soaking some millet in it, and see if he'll eat it (remember, the juice goes bad quite quickly, so I wouldn't leave it in his cage for more than an hour or so).
 

plumsmum2005

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Nov 18, 2015
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Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
"As Plum said, I'd get him Lily of the Desert Liver Detox. I'd also buy Bird RX Milk Thistle/Dandelion Root Liver Detox. Not only does the dandelion root detox the liver, but I find it helps to kill cancer cells."

IMO it is best to wait and ask your AV if these can be administered by yourself. If both of these are given at the same time there is a chance that you are double dosing certain ingredients, is that OK? I wouldn't know and would prefer to not take risks in a well bird, even less one that is unwell. The key is to make sure that anything that is given in no way compromises the liver further.
 
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A

Anna_Oblomova

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Jun 21, 2017
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Rose-breasted cockatoo: FidƃĀØl - Congo African Grey: Bibi - Forpus parrotlet: RaƃĀ²ul -
Pyrrhura's: Tiny & Luny - Corvus corone: Hodor
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Hereā€™s an update on Fidel:

Wednesday morning we went to the specialist avian vet, because that was the earliest moment we could get an appointment. We had to drive a pretty far distance from the Netherlands to Belgium, which for us is no effort of course, but Fidel really had a hard time due to motion sickness (vomiting all the way). When we arrived they did an ultrasound and confirmed it was the liver. The vet honestly said they canā€™t rule out the possibility of a tumour for certain, because itā€™s also difficult to differentiate an enlarged fatty liver from cancerous tissue, unless they would take a biopsy of the liver, which could be very dangerous, so I wouldnā€™t want to take that risk, neither would the vet. He however said he didnā€™t saw any other abnormalities or irregularities, which would be more likely if it were cancer, so thatā€™s a good thing.

He also said Fidel is looking very good for a bird who would suffer from cancer. Also because of him being overweight and eating mostly sunflower seeds (although I gave him an enriched seed mix, with other healthier things in it, he probably only ate the sunflower seeds for the most part), a diagnosis of fatty liver disease would be more probable.

They also draw blood from him again, and could immediately process and evaluate the results, which were now all in the normal ranges. So remarkably, his AST which was 1338 was now 230, his bile acids were 108 and were now 35. The vet said this is something that again makes the FLD diagnosis more likely, because the liver enzymes are known to fluctuate with that condition and with cancer they would constantly be sky high.

When examining Fidel he also saw fat tissue between his feathers on his stomach and they did a sort of puncture of this tissue to assess the cells for abnormalities, and gladly they saw none. So this all points in the direction of it being fatty liver disease. I know this too is extremely serious, but I am relieved itā€™s probably not cancer. Although I am a very easily concerned and worried person by nature, so the fact there is no absolute certainty still troubles me a lot, but I have to remain positive.

The last days/week Fidel seems to be doing a little better. The main reason I think is the drop in temperature, itā€™s was so hot and humid, so that probably contributed to his worsened breathing problems, which is fortunately over now. Besides that he seems more energetic and at first I heard him breathing through his nose constantly and now I only hear it sometimes and not as heavy as it was.

The vet also discussed diet change, which I had already began doing. Iā€™m now giving him a mix of all sorts of vegetables and some fruit, with different kind of beans, sprouted seeds and Harrison pellets with some canary seeds mixed through. He eats much less, but he does eat from his new improved food. But it does concern me that now that Iā€™m no longer giving him sunflower seeds (since two weeks), he has dropped 30 grams in weight, which is 6%. Which is too much in too little time. Although I later thought about his blood work being checked twice in 1,5 week, and that the drawn blood work generally weighs 1% of the body weight, so can this attribute in his weight loss?

Iā€™m glad he is taking to his improved diet, but he does eat less and less in caloric value of course, but Iā€™m worried about the weight loss. I donā€™t want to begin giving him sunflower seeds again, but how can I prevent a too drastic weight loss? I try to give him porridge made out of pulverized kaytee rainbow pellets (not the baby formula!), but he barely wants any of it. I thought that maybe I should buy the Lafeber nutri-berries and give this as addition.

The vet gave lactulose with milk thistle in it to administer, preferably in his food, or in some organic fruit juice or yoghurt. The problem is he isnā€™t taking any of it, in whatever form I present it to him. So now twice a day my mother helps me keeping him wrapped in a towel while I administer it to him, drop by drop. Fidel is very sensitive for aspiration and had very severe reactions in the past. He also struggles a lot when wrapped in the towel and immediately gets out of breath.

I have already bought aloe vera detox drink and dandelion concentrate (with water/glycerine, not alcohol), but I forget to ask the vet about this, will email him about it.

Does any of you have suggestions for giving him his medication and preventing a too drastic weight loss? Thanks so much in advance. You have all been so helpful and kind!
 

plumsmum2005

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Nov 18, 2015
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Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
Firstly it is good to hear an update of Fidel. In my ignorance Plum was doing exactly the same just filtering off the Sunflower seeds, a point of much regret on my part.

I think I would not worry about the weight loss for now. Few changes been made ie diet and he is more active. If he is more active I feel that his drive to sit and munch away at seeds especially is lessened. Plum lost 100g over four weeks this year. As long as he is eating and the good stuff then don't fret. You can add a little pasta to chop, go steady though. Fresh cooked rice (never keep any leftovers) both better to be wholewheat and/or brown rice. A little breakfast porridge made with water. Yoghurt and 20 minute hard boiled egg is Plum's favourite (sliced & tiny piece given with meds). Keep track of Fidels weight and try to weigh consistently either before or after a meal, same time of day. If Fidel can get to a better weight that will be better for him long term. Create interest with these things.

It is important that what you give him does not tax his Liver further, so, keep any eye on sugar content as well as artificial colours.

If you decide to give Nutriberries then I would not give loose seeds as well, one or other.

Re it being FLD difficult to say, you are doing the best you can for him :)
Check the Aloe ingredients for Dandelion as I wouldn't double dose.
I hope someone else will help with dispensing meds using a syringe as I have no luck with my biter, kicker, wriggler, even if I am successful he spits it at me!

https://www.thespruce.com/are-eggs-good-for-my-bird-390604
 
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plumsmum2005

New member
Nov 18, 2015
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England, UK
Parrots
Lou, Ruby, and Sonu.
Fly free Plum, my gorgeous boy.
There could be some benefit in giving smaller more frequent meals and the adequate supply of high quality protein is necessary. Sprouting is an answer to providing a digestible source of protein and the fibre helps rid toxins.

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1647/2006-011R.1?journalCode=avms

Have you been given Fidel's Cholesterol and Triglyceride levels?
 
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SailBoat

Supporting Member
Jul 10, 2015
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DYH Amazon
Chasing variation in weight can drive one nuts. Target weighing first thing in the morning after the first movement of the day and before the first meal. This will give you a far more consistent weight day to day, week to week, and month to month!

The change to a very healthy diet should come with a change in weight. Remember that you also had a fairly long trip and your Parrot clearly reacts to auto travel poorly. That would have dropped both food and water contain and weight should normally trend downwards for 36 to 48 hours after that event and then recover.

Remember that weight has no meaning unless it is based on consistently taking it around a tight schedule. With weight it is the trending over-time that matter!

I fully agree with the advice provided above.
 

Flboy

Well-known member
Dec 28, 2014
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Greater Orlando area, Florida
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JoJo, 'Special' GCC, Bongo, Cinnamon GCC(wife's)
For your future road trips, which under the circumstances may be often, I understand being able to see out the window may help with motion sickness! For humans, it also helps to be able to see forward travel, if they are prone to getting sick! Daughter #3 has had front seat privileges all her life!
 

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