is a seed diet harmful if pellets are not given?

Hi Everyone
I am really enjoying getting to grips with being a new Green Cheek Conure owner and I love this wonderful forum and all the amazing advice.
One thing I am very confused with is feeding. I came home with pellets (Nutribird) and a good seed mix with nuts and raisins and various goodies. I began to slowly reduce the amount of seed to pellet ratio but Obi will simply not eat the pellets, he picks out all the seeds and leaves the pellets alone.
I also provide fresh fruit and vegetables every day he particularly enjoys red grapes!
I wanted to know if it is bad if I have a bird who is not on a pellet diet. In the wild they do not eat pellets they eat seeds and fruit etc so why is a pellet diet so important? Can I stick with a good mix of nuts and seeds and fruit?
Thank you kindly for any information and advice.

Seeds alone are harmful because they A. are too high in fat and contribute to liver disease and B. they lack the proper nutrients that birds require. A bird who fills up on seeds will eat less of other foods and they will be getting too much fat without enough nutrition. They also tend to become obsessed with seeds and shun other foods when seeds are an alternative. Pellets provide a more balanced nutrient variety. Even if you are giving veggies etc, unless you are a trained bird nutritionist (maybe not even then) it will be very hard to ensure that your bird is getting a balanced and complimentary blend of vitamins/amino acids/proteins....Side Note: Birds can overdose on supplements, so be very careful if you ever decide to take that path.


EDIT- As stated by Ellen (below), some seeds are fine, but you don't want to leave out the other stuff. My post was referring to the reason why a bird should not only be eating seeds + vegetables. Although pellets aren't natural, you cannot provide your bird with the variety of foods that it would find in the wild, nor will your bird have to exert the same amount of caloric-burn in order to find its daily foods. Pellets help provide better balance. You also shouldn't give your bird rhubarb, garlic, chives, excessive vitamin c, etc..(among many other things)...

Birds bodies are designed and created to eat seeds, nuts, legumes, grains, etc. They need to eat seeds every day to keep their GI Tracts healthy, and to stimulate their foraging instincts and to use their beaks to "shell"...Pellets are wonderful and should be the main "staple" of your bird's daily diet. However, Pellets do not exist in nature, and pellets will not fulfill all of your bird's daily physical or mental needs. So the goal is to have your bird eating a healthy, fortified Pellet as the main staple of his diet, along with a small amount of a healthy, low-fat, varied seed mix, along with fresh veggies and dark. leafy greens every day.

We get into trouble with the seed-mixes when we buy ones that contain either sunflower seeds or nuts, usually it's peanuts that the junk seed-mixes are full of, but your bird's seed-mix should not contain ANY type of nuts, sunflower seeds, or corn. You need to find a healthy, varied seed-mix that contains NO sunflower seeds and NO nuts or corn at all. So the one you are feeding him is not good if it contains nuts, as they are loaded with fat. Nuts, just like sunflower seeds, should only be given occasionally as special treats or training rewards, and that's it, not a part of their daily diet. So you need to look for a better seed-mix, such as Roudybush, Tropimix, Higgins Vita Seed with no Sunflower seeds, Higgin's VitaSeed California Blend, Sunseed no sunflower mix. There are others, but these are some of the best, as they contain no nuts, no sunflower seeds, and contain lots of different whole-grains, legumes, low-fat seeds, veggies, etc.

****Also, you do not want to feed your bird Fruit every day either. We often lump fresh fruit in with fresh veggies, like it's an "either-or" situation, but that's not the case at all. While fruit contains many healthy vitamins and minerals for our birds, unfortunately it is absolutely loaded with sugar. And even though it's "natural" sugar, it ends-up being turned-into fat and stored in their livers just like the fat from the sunflower seeds and the nuts does. So fresh fruit should only be given to your bird at most 3-4 days a week, and in small portions.

You want to feed your bird lots and lots of fresh veggies however, and if you don't feed him the fruit as a part of his regular, daily diet, he'll be much more likely to eat his fresh veggies....A lot of people say "My bird hates veggies, he just won't eat them", but then we find out that they are feeding their bird fresh fruits along with the veggies, which totally explains why they won't eat the veggies, because they only want the sweet, sugary fruit!

You can basically feed your bird ANY fresh veggie and any dark, leafy greens every single day, and lots of them! (EXCEPT for onions/leeks, as they are toxic to birds, and any of the Iceberg or "watery" lettuces, as they contain no nutritional value). You can also try making different "Chop" recipes consisting of several different types of fresh veggies to see what he likes.

So he needs to get his pellets as the main staple (he will eat his pellets if you ONLY provide him the pellets as his food throughout the day, he won't purposely starve himself, I promise). We are the reason that our birds refuse to eat pellets, fresh veggies, etc. It's no different than feeding our young human children. Of course they want the cookies and candy and ice cream and not the good foods, but we would never give-in and just feed them the crap instead of their real foods (well, most people don't, lol).

****Here's what I do with my Cockatiel, who was my one bird who just would not transition from a crappy seed-mix to a pellet and a healthy seed-mix with veggies:

First, find a healthy, low-fat, varied seed-mix that contains NO sunflower seeds and NO nuts at all. Ditch the crappy seed-mix with the nuts. My stubborn Cockatiel loves the Tropimix and the Higgin's VitaSeed California Blend, both of which you can buy at any Petco. I guess you already have a pellet that you've chosen, and make sure that you have a nice variety of fresh veggies at home and that you chop them up into very small pieces, as usually the smaller the bird, the smaller they like their veggie chop. I give my birds their small amount of healthy seed-mix first thing every morning, and get it out of the way. They each only get about 1/4 cup of healthy seed mix each day, that's it, no more. It's going to look like it's not enough, but remember, that's only a small part of their daily diet...

So first thing in the morning I give them their very small amount of healthy seed-mix, which they typically gobble up right away. Then before I leave for the day I put their pellets in their bowls for the day. That's all they are going to have to eat all day long, so trust me, they'll eat them, as they've already devoured their healthy seed-mix, and they're going to get really hungry right around early afternoon. ****Something that you need to make sure of is that the SIZE of the pellets you are feeding is correct for your bird. I don't know what brand/type of pellets you're feeding your Green Cheek, but you need to make sure that his pellets are small enough for him, as sometimes they don't like to have to hold their pellets if they are quite large. I feed Tropican pellets to my birds, and my Quaker, Green Cheek, and Cockatiel all eat the small "Conure" formula, where the pellets are about the size of a popcorn kernel; however, my Senegal parrot, who also eats Tropican pellets, won't eat the same size that the other do (of course, lol), so for him I have to buy the next size up of the Tropican pellets, which is meant for "medium parrots and Amazons". My Senegal likes to be able to hold his pellets in his foot and eat them that way, rather than putting a small pellet in his mouth all at one time. They're all different in what they like, so sometimes you have to try different things. I used to feed Zupreem Natural pellets to all of my birds, and it was the same way, the 3 smaller birds at the Zupreem Natural pellets that were about the same size as the Tropican they eat now, and the Senegal would only eat the much larger Zupreem Natural pellets for Amazons. So it might take some experimenting, just like the fresh veggies will...

So they get their very small portion of healthy seed-mix first thing in the morning (and it's soooo important that you ONLY give your bird a very small portion of whatever healthy seed-mix you choose, 1/4 cup at most, even if it looks like it's not enough, because if you feed him any more seed-mix, he won't need to eat his pellets)...Then I put their daily portion of pellets in their bowl and they have them for the day. When I get home and I'm ready to make and eat my dinner, that's when they get their fresh veggies, and they always eat dinner WITH me. They see me eating my dinner and they want to eat their dinner at the same time, and this will also serve to encourage them to eat more of their fresh veggies. Now I make-up large batches of different fresh veggie "Chop" mixes every Sunday, put single-portions into little plastic baggies, and put the baggies in the freezer, so that they will keep for as long as I want them to. Then each morning before I leave, I take out the baggies that they will eat for that particular day, and put them into the fridge to thaw-out, and by the time I get home for dinner, they are thawed-out and ready to go. So I make my dinner (with them in the kitchen with me, playing on their T-Stands), and then I get out their portions of fresh veggie Chop mixes, put their fresh veggies in their bowls, and we all sit down and eat dinner together. It also helps if you put some of the exact same fresh veggies that you have given them onto your plate too, so that they think you are eating the same thing that they are, this usually encourages them to eat the veggies because they always want what you have. They typically eat their fresh veggies right away, and then since I'm still eating my dinner, they will also finish-off any remaining pellets that they have left in their dishes.

Now I give my guys a small amount of fresh-fruit 3-4 days a week, but they know that they aren't going to get any fresh fruit unless they have finished all of their pellets for the day. It took a while to get them to do this, but now I have no issues with their pellets at all, they are usually all gone by the time I get home in the late afternoon. You absolutely do not want to give them fresh fruit every single day in large amounts, but what I do is that 3-4 days a week they get a small piece of fruit, whatever it is for that day, and they get that after they finish their fresh veggies. But it's a very small piece of fruit, not nearly even close to the amount of fresh veggies they get. If you feed your bird fresh fruit in the same amounts that you do their fresh veggies, then they are not only going to stop eating the veggies and just want the fruit (much like they will stop eating their pellets if you feed them large amounts of seed-mix), but they will also eventually develop Fatty Liver Disease, Diabetes, and become overweight, which then causes severe Arthritis in their joints, along with the formation of many Lipomas all over their bodies (parrots are extremely prone to developing Lipomas, which are fatty tumors that are basically just balls of fat depositing under their skin due to them eating too much fat, sugar, etc.).

Just to add something: We as bird owners need to find a happy-medium between feeding our birds what is good for them and will keep them physically healthy, but also feeding them the types of food that their bodies are naturally created to eat. There is a reason that birds GI Tracts are designed to grind-up seeds, and that's because seeds make-up a large amount of what they eat in the wild...The difference is that captive, pet birds aren't flying miles and miles each day and getting near the exercise that wild birds are. So you simply cannot feed your bird nothing but seed-mixes, nor can you feed them a large amount of seed-mix as a staple. However, they do need to eat seeds every day, not as a "treat", but as a part of their regular, daily diets. However, when you measure out just 1/4 cup of the healthy seed-mix your first reaction is "Wow, that's not very much seed-mix", but that's exactly what it should be.

****Now, you can also just put the very small amount of healthy seed-mix into your bird's bowl in the morning along with his daily portion of pellets, and yes, he will most likely eat all of the seed-mix first and leave the pellets, but that's okay...However, it's only okay if you don't give-in and give him more seed-mix that same day!!! Along with training our birds to eat a healthy daily diet, we also have to train ourselves to not give-in to their begging, or to get worried that they aren't eating their pellets and then go ahead and give them more seed-mix...Trust me, your bird will not starve himself, I promise you that! For the first couple of weeks he may very well simply eat the small amount of healthy seed-mix you give him with his pellets and then that's it, he probably will go at least a few days to a week or so without eating any of the pellets. That's okay, again, he's not going to starve himself. But it's up to you to stay strong and not go off of his diet, because he needs to be shown that "This is it buddy, you're not getting any more seeds today, so you need to eat your pellets and then later your fresh veggies or you're going to be hungry, but you're not getting any more seeds or fruit!", and eventually he'll realize that this is now his diet, and he'll start eating the pellets.

****It's going to be important that you don't really give him many "treats" like fruit, nuts, sunflower seeds, or people food at all UNTIL he starts eating his pellets every day on a regular basis, because they're extremely intelligent, and what he'll do is think "Well I ate my measly little amount of seeds, but I'm not going to eat those pellets or the veggies I get later because I know that he's gonna give me some good treats throughout the day and tonight, so I'll just wait for them!" That's exactly what will happen. So it's very important that you only give him the very small amount of healthy seed-mix and his pellets, and then his fresh veggies every day and that's it until he starts eating the pellets and the veggies. Once he's been eating the pellets and the fresh veggies every day for a while, then you can start giving him a treat here and there, a piece of fresh fruit at night, etc. but not until he accepts the fact that the pellets and the fresh veggies are his main daily diet, and he's not going to get any treats unless he eats them first. It's very much like feeding a young human toddler to eat his meal or he's not going to get desert. Same thing.

Great advice above.

Here is my usual contribution!

ttp://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/

I feed Harrison's, supplemented by fresh healthy treats. My first, and later, my current avian vet recommended it. My bird loves the pellets now, but to get him converted, my avian vet suggested putting pellets out all day, and putting seeds (his old diet) out for two 15-minute periods a day. That would sustain him but leave him hungry enough to try new stuff. I presume the same technique could be used to get him to eat other healthy stuff, like fruits and vegetables! My guy was eating pellets in a couple of days, and now I can feed a good variety of other stuff, knowing he has the pellets as a basic. Pellets are out all day... fresh treats a few times a day. I also like Harrison's via mail because I never have to worry about out-of-date products.
Another couple of ideas...
My ol' man is an athlete and health nut. He actually EATS all the good stuff, so it's always around. I find that tossing various stuff into the food bowls at random is good... the variations and differences seem to stimulate curiosity and attention.
The other idea... if you can stand it (lol) EAT the stuff in front of the birds, yes. That encourages them. I have also found that if my ol' man eats stuff in front of the bird, the bird WANTS it for himself. Kinda a rivalry thing!

I'm glad you're reaching out! You'll be your bird's hero in the long run!!

Goodness I can't begin to thank you all so much for the wonderful advice. I have been doing it all wrong. For example in the morning when Obi wakes I give him a red grape as a treat, then I give him his fresh seed mix to which I add pellets, the seed mix contains all the wrong seeds it is a mix by Loro-Parque that was suggested at the pet shop Where I live it is very hard to find pellets they only have Nutribird. I think I will order from overseas to here to solve that problem. I also in a separate bowl have been giving a mix of fruits and vege.
So today things will change I will order some pellets because I don't know if I am happy with Nutribird and take the fruit away - fingers crossed but thank you all ever so much I am really grateful. Will post soon with an update ��

Nutribird is fine -it's part of the diet here too.



Seeds are a huge part of what they would eat in the wild - unfortunately so is flying for miles and miles each day. So the seeds are not too fatty -> the bird does not get to burn all those calories in a captive situation
Seedmix is always a risk because the birds will go for the favorites first - and since we all like to take *really* good care of them, not many people will let the bird semi-strave to force it to eat the rest as well...
so once again: an unnatural situation we created.


LOL, I noticed I am saying the things Ellen already pointed out - so I will stop..


"real meals before snacks" always

just a thought thinking of the transitioning part of the diet change but possibly you could try switching to something like fruit pellets (don't know if nutribird does a fruit pack) and then from that to the Nutribird pellets?

I know the fruit pellets have sugars and such but as a 'gateway pellet' it could be an idea. From my experience my conure took to the zupreem fruit pellets immediately and then I was planning on switching to a better one once I found the fruit ones not to be the greatest for them.

EllenD said:

Just to add something: We as bird owners need to find a happy-medium between feeding our birds what is good for them and will keep them physically healthy, but also feeding them the types of food that their bodies are naturally created to eat. There is a reason that birds GI Tracts are designed to grind-up seeds, and that's because seeds make-up a large amount of what they eat in the wild...The difference is that captive, pet birds aren't flying miles and miles each day and getting near the exercise that wild birds are. So you simply cannot feed your bird nothing but seed-mixes, nor can you feed them a large amount of seed-mix as a staple. However, they do need to eat seeds every day, not as a "treat", but as a part of their regular, daily diets. However, when you measure out just 1/4 cup of the healthy seed-mix your first reaction is "Wow, that's not very much seed-mix", but that's exactly what it should be.

****Now, you can also just put the very small amount of healthy seed-mix into your bird's bowl in the morning along with his daily portion of pellets, and yes, he will most likely eat all of the seed-mix first and leave the pellets, but that's okay...However, it's only okay if you don't give-in and give him more seed-mix that same day!!! Along with training our birds to eat a healthy daily diet, we also have to train ourselves to not give-in to their begging, or to get worried that they aren't eating their pellets and then go ahead and give them more seed-mix...Trust me, your bird will not starve himself, I promise you that! For the first couple of weeks he may very well simply eat the small amount of healthy seed-mix you give him with his pellets and then that's it, he probably will go at least a few days to a week or so without eating any of the pellets. That's okay, again, he's not going to starve himself. But it's up to you to stay strong and not go off of his diet, because he needs to be shown that "This is it buddy, you're not getting any more seeds today, so you need to eat your pellets and then later your fresh veggies or you're going to be hungry, but you're not getting any more seeds or fruit!", and eventually he'll realize that this is now his diet, and he'll start eating the pellets.

****It's going to be important that you don't really give him many "treats" like fruit, nuts, sunflower seeds, or people food at all UNTIL he starts eating his pellets every day on a regular basis, because they're extremely intelligent, and what he'll do is think "Well I ate my measly little amount of seeds, but I'm not going to eat those pellets or the veggies I get later because I know that he's gonna give me some good treats throughout the day and tonight, so I'll just wait for them!" That's exactly what will happen. So it's very important that you only give him the very small amount of healthy seed-mix and his pellets, and then his fresh veggies every day and that's it until he starts eating the pellets and the veggies. Once he's been eating the pellets and the fresh veggies every day for a while, then you can start giving him a treat here and there, a piece of fresh fruit at night, etc. but not until he accepts the fact that the pellets and the fresh veggies are his main daily diet, and he's not going to get any treats unless he eats them first. It's very much like feeding a young human toddler to eat his meal or he's not going to get desert. Same thing.

Click to expand...

I love all your great informative posts in this thread, and will probably incorporate it into much of my future care for my seed addicted birds.

I am curious how your meal plan works when it comes to foraging? My Kiwi gets very bored in his cage when I am at work all day, so I do my best to incorporate foraging toys he can have fun with.
With a soft billed bird it can be tricky. I usually fill a couple shallow small containers he can see into with his treat, cover it with toilet or paper towel, secured with a fabric hair eastic (that he never bothers with) and then I secure it to the sides of his cage at different angles. Seeing the treat gets him excited for it, and he can quickly rip into it, sometimes faster than I can hang the thing.

He wont bother with them if his covered dishes are filled with non-food related items or any food item he doesnt love. If the material he has to get get into is too thick or too hard, he will easily give up. I have a couple metal cups he cant see through and he is usually less interested in them..or will rip one hole, look inside then leave it.

What do you do for foraging with your meal plan? I wish my Kiwi would keep himself amused with toys, but he only usually uses them when he is angry. Bird huts or tents/boxes etc only seem to encourage his nest building drive and that then increases his general aggression/hostility and screaming episodes quite a bit, so we dont give him access to anything tht might encourage nesting. I know the ripping or toilet paper can also encourage nesting behaviour, but its really the only thing I can find that he is able to destroy with his beak.

Thanks!

I wanted to thank you for your kind help in my thread about changing seeds to pellets but I wanted to ask a question just so that I can get things clear and to the right thing for Obi my little Green Cheek Conure.

I have ordered some Harrison's High Potency Fine to try to transition Obi onto I had to order it from overseas because I can't get it here so for now he is having seeds mixed with Nutribird and he leaves all the Nutribird pellets and only eats the seeds!

The Seed I have for him here is by Versele-Laga Prestige Loro Parque it is the Amazon Parrot mix but it contains sunflower seeds. So I thought I would switch and order again from overseas as I can't get it here the Tropimix that you suggested (I can't get the Higgins) but I see that it also contains sunflower seeds. So I wondered should I be picking the sunflower seeds out of the food?

I am not sure really what to do in terms of seeds what makes Tropimix better say than the one I can get here if they both have sunflower seeds and nuts in them?

Thank you so very much

Lots of people pick over the parrotfood to remove the ones that are not really good for the parrot to eat-- so yes... removing them is a great idea.
(If you miss one or two it does not matter- it is bad because lots a parrrots wil chose to eat *only* sunflowerseeds and get deficiencies as a result of a poorly balanced diet.)


You really put a lot of effort in getting your bird the best food available.
Nice job!


but as long as you keep mixing pellets and seed the bird will continue to pick it's favorite.


You can do what some people here have done in the past:

feed only pellets (and vedge), and if you worry you bird will starve (just weigh your bird to be sure he is actually losing weight) you can offer a small amount of seeds for 15 minutes 2x a day.