Old Age or Illness?

I have a male parrotlet who is 13yrs old. I got him from a breeder and have had him since he was a baby.

He is typically pretty energetic and angry. Bites fingers, definitely defends his home. I am the only one in the house who can handle him, and I do so with a washcloth when he comes out for play time (to save my fingers). Good eater and no history of health issues.

2 days ago I got him out for play time and noticed that he seemed very drowsy. Kept closing his eyes and was very pliable. I could touch him with bare hands with no problem. He would not make a sound or respond to his usual vocal cues. He would oscillate between this near listlessness and then suddenly wanting to fly. The problem was he would just splat right into things without really landing. He seemed distressed and like he didn't know where he was, and would often cower wherever he fell.

I rushed him to an emergency vet. Over the course of the 30 min drive he got a bit better. By the time we actually saw the vet, he was vocalizing and gripping his perch again, and biting people. The vet could find nothing overt wrong and said he's in great physical shape. They gave him a small dose of fluids since he did have 1 runny poo while we were there, and I was sent home with some broad spectrum antibiotics "just in case" there's an internal infection we see no signs of yet.

That evening he was great. yesterday--totally robust, fully himself. This morning--still doing great. Then this afternoon I was vacuuming in the room and I look over to see him crouched on his food bowl looking drowsy again. I got him out and held him, and we had a repeat of the previous episode: no vocal responses, cowering, drowsiness, and then bursts of wanting to fly and ram into things. I transferred him to his carry cage and lined it with soft stuff to prevent him harming himself with impacts. Within 30 min he's fine again!

So what am i dealing with here? Neurological event like a stroke? Symptom of something else? Or is he just having senior moments? What can I do for him? I called the vet to tell them it was happening again but the vet was in surgery at the time.

He is not near any windows or vents, no new food or toys in the mix. Mostly a seed diet because he's a jerk and won't eat his offered veggies or most vitamin pellets in food mixes. I do use Vita Sol drops in his water a few times a week. Seems to eat well when he's feeling normal.

I am guessing disease or internal issues. On average, I think they live 20-30 years, which means he isn't THAT old yet (technically).
Did they do a gram-stain?
Did they do a CBC (blood work)?
Did you have any heating/heated appliances running, or any dishes that were exposed to heat etc? PFTE/PFOA/ Teflon is hidden in things like electric blankets, blow-dryers, self-cleaning ovens, curlers, slow cookers, ironing board covers, space heaters etc (and then obviously pots/pans etc).
You didn't clean using chemicals did you? No scented products?
Is your bird scared of the vacuum and were you vacuuming up anything in particular? Did the vacuum suck up anything and get jammed/clogged (you know, when they produce that burning rubber smell?)

yes that sounds like he's feeling unwell, I'd arrange a visit to his Certified Avian Vet

Can you verify whether the emergency vet was "avian certified" or equivalent? If not, follow up with a specialized vet is advisable. Giving antibiotics proactively without accomplishing various lab tests is questionable.

Diet may be a contributory issue, have you tried pellets in lieu of seed? (not vitamin pellets in seed mixes but a general pellet diet?) There are many conversion strategies, please consider this: http://www.parrotforums.com/parrot-...7-converting-parrots-healthier-diet-tips.html

LordTriggs said:

yes that sounds like he's feeling unwell, I'd arrange a visit to his Certified Avian Vet

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As described in the above, he was seen by an avian vet.

Hi Scott, My impression was that this woman was an avian specialty vet. I didn't just go to my nearest general vet office (I have many reptiles too, so i know that doesn't work!). This place was 30min away and I was referred there 1) because they have staff who see birds specifically and 2) because the usual place I go was closed for the day and this place was 24/7 emergency. I didn't ask whether she was avian certified because I felt all the information I had been given spoke to that, but now I would know to ask the question outright.

To answer your question, I have tried pellets many times over the years, and many different kinds/sizes. He won't touch them. For a while i was even grinding them up and sprinkling the powder over his seed to sneak them into his diet. Hard to say how much he actually ingested. I do still provide a pellet and seed combo daily, but I always get a lot of empty seed hulls and a lot of leftover pellets in return. Do you have a brand you like for parrotlets?

Noodles--
They did not offer a gram stain. I didn't know to ask for one and have only read about them after returning from this visit. I agree this would be good to do if there's a return visit.
She did not wish/offer to take a blood sample. She said she didn't want to stress him out and he's already so small she "wouldn't be able to do much with the amount she could take" (yeah...that sounded weird to me too).
No heating appliances running near him. He is not near any house vents either. The types of devices you mentioned, if used in our home, are in other rooms in a fairly large house. The vet had suggested running a space heater in his room for his added comfort. Would you advise against that based on the above?
No cleaning products or chemicals are ever used on his stuff.
The Vacuuming was just general quick clean up for his seed hulls. No malfunction of device or weird smell happened. I had actually only been doing it for a minute when i noticed him and shut everything down.

This is definitely an illness and not "old age"; I'm sure you're aware that birds innately hide all outward signs of illness for as long as they can as a survival instinct, so it's not unusual at all for signs/symptoms such as lethargy, sleepiness, etc. to just appear suddenly out of nowhere. So it's likely he's been sick for quite some time and it's now progressed enough that the outward sings/symptoms are appearing.

It doesn't at all sound like the Vet at the 24/7 Animal Hospital was either a Certified Avian Vet nor an Avian Specialist, but rather an "Exotics" Vet who treats all types of animals, such as birds, reptiles, rodents, dogs, cats, primates, etc. Firstly because they work at a 24/7 Animal Hospital and that's typically who they employ, "Exotics" Vets who are willing to treat every type of animal, and then also usually a General Vet or two that only see dogs and cats. The second reason I'm certain they weren't a Certified Avian Vet or Avian Specialist Vet is because I've not ever once know any CAV or Avian Specialist who would EVER prescribe any prescription medication to a bird, specifically any antibiotic, without at the very, very least doing a quick Fecal Culture/Gram-Stain first, as this takes all of 5 minutes and typically confirms or rules-out the most common infections that birds get....Not to mention that all CAV's and Avian Specialists know how sensitive all birds are to medications, and how vital it is to actually diagnose what is causing a bird to be sick once they are actually showing outward signs/symptoms of illness, because they know that this typically means that the bird has already been sick for weeks to months, and that once it gets to this point where they are "acting" like they are sick or in pain that they cannot just "guess" or prescribe an antibiotic "just in-case", because if it's the wrong antibiotic or if the bird doesn't even have a Bacterial infection, the bird can actually go downhill so quickly once they are showing outward signs symptoms of illness that they need to get an accurate diagnosis and prescribe the CORRECT medication, instead of doing what most Exotics Vets do and run no diagnostic tests, not even the most basic microscopy, and simply give the bird a broad-spectrum antibiotic like Baytril on a "just in-case" basis...The other issue is that all CAV's and Avian Specialist Vets also know that prescribing random antibiotics to birds that don't need them often results in the bird developing a Fungal/Yeast infection throughout their GI Tract secondary to the antibiotic, and then the bird has two different illnesses going on that must be treated...

The worry here is that there are several infections (both bacterial and fungal) along with several common Avian Viruses that express themselves neurologically, the one that comes to mind first and that is the most-common by far being Psittacosis Chlamydia. So if your Parrotlet is still acting lethargic/sleepy and is seemingly "out of it" and then flying with little coordination, that's a sign that he might be suffering from something like Psittacosis. He also might just have a bad GI infection, especially since you mentioned that he had some "runny droppings", which is yet another common symptom of either a GI Infection of some type or of several viral infections...

I highly suggest that you find a CAV or Avian Specialist and get both a Fecal Culture/Gram-Stain and routine blood-work done (and if you notice any other new symptoms, such as any Upper Respiratory symptoms or Sinus symptoms, then also a Culture/Gram-Stain taken from both the nostrils and the throat as well)...any wheezing, coughing, sneezing, open-mouth breathing, discharge from the nostrils, etc...But he definitely needs at the very least a Fecal culture and routine, basic blood-work done, because if he does have an infection of some kind he's likely had it for a while, and if it's advanced enough to be causing neurological symptoms then it needs to be properly diagnosed and the correct treatment started ASAP...

***Also, you should think about starting him on a daily Avian Probiotic to protect against a GI fungal/yeast infection secondary to the antibiotics, as this is extremely common when a bird is put on any antibiotic. Either Qwiko Avian Probiotic, which is available at any Petco for $10, or Benebac. Continue for at least a week AFTER he finishes any antibiotics he might be given...

Ellen--Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough response. This was VERY helpful.
I will call my usual vet where I take my reptiles and see if their bird person is Certified Avian. There is also a really nice parrot shop in town and perhaps I can ask where they take their birds. At the time I felt assured this vet was the right person to be seeing based on the other vet's recs, but now having distance from the emergency situation I see how everyone's suspicions are adding up to paint a different picture.
I agree a gram stain sounds like a good place to start. I checked his papers today and stools seem normal visibly, so at least he has not remained runny. I can say the vet examined ears, nares, mouth, eyes and all were clear. Hopefully that means we can cross upper respiratory off the list. Breathing is not noisy, wheezy, or labored.
I'll get the probiotic you suggested when I swing by Petco later today!

I'm sorry your birdie is sick, Ellen always has excellent advice! You can try leafy greens but nit romaine right now there is a big recall in that!!! A lot if time birds are willing to nibble on whole leaf greens, a d they have a lot if vitamins try dandelion greens from grocery store, abd other veggies. A lit if birds get sick when they have low vitamin A and D. Maybe he will try the veggies or scrambled eggs wich have vitamin D.

ashleyj said:

Hi Scott, My impression was that this woman was an avian specialty vet. I didn't just go to my nearest general vet office (I have many reptiles too, so i know that doesn't work!). This place was 30min away and I was referred there 1) because they have staff who see birds specifically and 2) because the usual place I go was closed for the day and this place was 24/7 emergency. I didn't ask whether she was avian certified because I felt all the information I had been given spoke to that, but now I would know to ask the question outright.

To answer your question, I have tried pellets many times over the years, and many different kinds/sizes. He won't touch them. For a while i was even grinding them up and sprinkling the powder over his seed to sneak them into his diet. Hard to say how much he actually ingested. I do still provide a pellet and seed combo daily, but I always get a lot of empty seed hulls and a lot of leftover pellets in return. Do you have a brand you like for parrotlets?

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Almost any reputable pellet is superior to an all seed diet. Zupreem Fruit Blend is generally well received, though some believe the corn and sugar content is too high. A "Natural" variety is also available. I switched my flock to Harrison's earlier this year with little trouble. Their conversion protocol worked well and may be effective with other brands. Small: Diet Conversion: Small Bird | Harrison's Bird Foods
Medium-to-large: Diet Conversion: Medium to Large Bird | Harrison's Bird Foods

The Harrison's "Conversion" method is the best I've ever seen, and seems to work very well, regardless of what brand of pellets you choose.

How is your bird doing now?

UPDATE: Saw a true avian vet today. Again, physical examination revealed nothing alarming. My bird has been 100% normal with no episodes for 3 days. The Dr. did offer the option of doing a complete blood panel to see if there's anything that might point to liver, kidney, or other organ failure, OR anything that might point to stroke. I authorized the blood work and he was a good patient. Will update again when I get results of the panel.

Hi Ellen, No episodes for 3 days. In fact, he's been very robust. I kept an appt. to see a true avian vet anyway (the person I would have seen if they hadn't been closed the first time). Waiting for blood panel results. The Dr. said he looked great externally and behavior was good. Will hopefully know more about what triggered the episodes when blood comes back. She was impressed to see a 13yr old. I guess most parrotlets they see start having health issues after 8. More people would do well to consult expereinced keepers like you all!

Thank you, Scott! The avian vet i saw today actually stock Harrisons so at least i know where to get it! The most recent brands i had tried (aside from the pellets that come mixed in with a cockatiel seed assortment) were Tropimix and Totally organics TOP pellets. The latter was definitely too large and I had to crush them down a bit. Never noticed him taking to either much. I shall look into that Zupreem as well. You're probably right about the sugar..but maybe a good bribe treat to help bridge over (?)

Any blood results yet?

No call yet. I suspect this being the weekend and a holiday weekend at that I may be waiting a few days.

Update: Blood test came back yesterday. Calcium levels were great. Red blood cell count was a bit high, as you might see if someone was fighting an infection or chronic illness. Liver levels were WAY high. 88 when they should be less than 50. Liver disease seemed the likely candidate, and we were planning to do x-rays in addition to a liver specific medication and some milk thistle supplement. I was to bring him in this afternoon. I was also planning to convert to harrisons pellets. He was doing great yesterday --super energetic and talkative.

Then this morning I walked past his cage to get a glass of water. I said his name but there was no response. I scanned the cage and found him face down on the floor. I held him in a towel for hours, talking to him and stroking his head. His eyes were sleepy, he couldn't keep his head up. He could grip my finger with his foot and I got two small peeps from him. I called the vet but they said it sounded like there wasn't much to do. I was welcome to bring him in but the implication was that it would be to let him go. I told him how much I loved him. He passed during the one hour I left the house, cozy in his towel in a favorite fleece nest.

Thank you to all here for the support. You all know how much these birds mean. I wish i had had the chance to treat his and stretch out his time, but things just went downhill so suddenly.

Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry for your loss. It's so hard to loose them. Awww... Warm hugs to you

Ashley....you got to say goodbye in the softest kindest way, I think he waited till you left...I'm just so sad with you..