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Old 02-10-2019, 11:59 AM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

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Sorry to heard what you have gone through....

If I were into this matter behalf of my baby Kise, I would have bring her home, and even I have to do the I.V. drips, I.V. SC= (I.V. Subcutaneous), I.V. P=(I.V. Push), I will do so and wait until her recovers. Be with the ones you love always better than at the vet. Unless the vet say otherwise.


I hope things go well and he will recover soon.

**Sending the feathers' love from Kise**


**Hugs**


**CHUUUUUUUUU**




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Old 02-10-2019, 12:03 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

First of all, I'm so sorry that this has happened to your bird and your family...Any way you put it this is not easy, and it hurts...'

I have been the Medical Liaison at an Avian Rescue for many years, and have lots of Avian Medical and Medical education in-general (I went to college and grad-school for Animal Health Science), but most-importantly and what matters to this situation is that I've dealt with many birds/parrots over the years with Traumatic Brain Injuries, both temporary and permanent. So I can give you my two-cents on this and you guys can take it how you want to take it...

***The first thing I want to say is that it's WAY TOO SOON to make a decision about euthanizing your bird!!! A week is no time at all when you're dealing with even a Grade-1 Concussion, let alone a high-grade Concussion or Traumatic Brain Injury. The only time I would EVER suggest that you euthanize a bird in this situation during the first week or even the first month after the injury would be if #1) The bird's body wasn't able to sustain itself or support life, meaning his cardiac and respiratory functions were being kept stable, or #2) If the brain injury was obviously so severe that a high-percentage of tissue was missing/damaged and seen on the radiographs, or it was very obvious that the bird was never even going to wake-up again, control it's bodily functions, etc.

It sounds to me like your bird has a high-grade Concussion and probably some swelling and/or bruising of his brain, both of which are temporary and take time to heal and recover. Acute-swelling of the brain can and usually will cause issues with breathing and heart-rate/cardiac function, and sometimes the swelling/bruising is bad enough that the bird does die within the first day or two of the injury simply due to the swelling stopping their heart or their respiration. But if a patient with a severe, high-grade concussion can get through the acute swelling and bruising and their body is maintaining it's vitals with no issues, then this is a very good sign that the patient is going to make a great recovery...If there are no skull fractures, no bleeding in the brain, no loss of brain tissue, no damage to the frontal-lobe of the brain, etc., and the only trauma to the brain is the actual Concussion itself and the resulting swelling/bruising, and the vitals are being maintained and the patient is reacting to external stimulus, then it's highly-probable that not only will the bird survive, but that they will eventually make a full-recovery...

Your bird is reacting to you, he is aware when you're there, and that's within a week of the injury...Him requiring oxygen is completely normal, as are the breathing issues, etc. It's only been a week and he has a very severe concussion, and his brain is still very swollen and bruised, so it's going to take time for that to happen. But typically they get to the point that you can actually see more and more recovery each and every day...To even talk about euthanizing the bird at this point, after only a week from when the injury occurred, and now that the bird's body is not just sustaining it's vitals but the bird is actually reacting and responding to external stimuli, well, I personally wouldn't even think about it at this point if it was one of my own flock, not at this point...

It's very likely that his recovery will be slow and it will take quite a long time, and that he will require hand-feeding, help getting around, etc., but as the swelling of his brain goes down and the bruising goes away, he will recover more and more each day...I haven't seen his films or tested his reflexes, etc., but if they are as you describe and this is just a very severe Concussion, then it's very possible that your bird can make a full-recovery over time, with your help and patience. And as already stated by many others, even if your bird does retain some permanent disability from the Concussion, that certainly does not mean that he can't also have a wonderful quality of life...He obviously is quite bonded to you and loves you, as he is already reacting to you being there with him. So that's probably the biggest sign that he can make a wonderful and amazing recovery and have a wonderful quality of life, if not make a full-recovery.

He's going to be on anti-inflammatory and pain meds for a while, that's completely normal. He may need to be put on Corticosteroids at some point in the future, and that is completely normal. He may need some oxygen and hand-feeding for q while, also normal...He had a very severe, high-grade Concussion only a week ago, so all of this is completely normal. It however does not mean that he will not make a wonderful and possibly full recovery, or that he can't live a wonderful, fulfilling life even if he has a little trouble with coordination or getting around normally. As long as he's not in any pain right now that cannot be controlled by the medications, then he's fine. As long as he isn't in any long-term pain that cannot be controlled then he's fine. Nothing you've described is at all a reason to even think about euthanizing him...

***What is most-important for you and your husband to realize and keep in-mind is that Brain-Trauma and Concussion Syndromes take longer than any other injuries to heal. And your bird doesn't even have any loss of brain-function, he simply has a very swollen and concussed brain that just sustained the injury a week ago. So it's just going to take time for his brain to heal, and that's what you have to keep reminding yourself of. It's only been a week, and that's no time at all for a severely concussed brain that is very swollen to heal. But he's already given you plenty of signs that he's going to be okay, and more-importantly that he wants to live. So I would absolutely give him the chance...

And as far as bringing him home, at this point as long as his vitals are all stable and being sustained by his body, then I would absolutely bring him home as soon as it's okay with your Avian Vet, because there's nothing that they are doing that you can't do at home, and he is going to recover so much more quickly if he's at home with you. Birds don't handle stress well at all, and one of their biggest stressors is being away from their homes and their flocks. So he's going to be able to concentrate on getting better once he gets home, whereas when he's in the hospital he's concentrating on "where are they?"...So yeah, if it was my bird, as long as his vitals were stable and being sustained without intervention (meaning his respirations and his heartbeat), and as long as his CAV was fine with sending him home on the meds that he needs along with any supportive-care like fluids, oxygen, etc., then I'd absolutely bring him home ASAP so that he can comfortably start his stress-free recovery...
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:26 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

I donít know if this would help ease your fear/anxiety at all, but...

Before I was born (around 6 months), I was in my momís birth canal for two weeks while the doctors waited for my lungs to develop more. As a result I developed moderate spastic quadrilateral cerebral palsy along with a seizure disorder. When I was born the doctors thought that I would never be able to walk, talk, or function normally. Now obviously they were wrong, but it took years of surgeries and therapy (and Iím still not Ďnormalí, but who is really).

I guess my point is that while it looks terrible now, you never know what could happen in the future. He might not ever be the exact same as he was before or a Ďnormalí bird, but as long as heís functioning normally for him (which youíll find out as time goes on), Iím sure youíll all be fine.

Good luck from me and the flock!
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:38 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

Yep I’m with everyone else here, if you have the means to care for Loki at home I would advise you do that. Once he is home with his flock he may well surprise you with how much progress he makes in recovery. I lost a green cheek last year to a sudden illness and I can tell you I would have done anything to have had even one more day with him. I’ve also had a budgie who had testicular cancer - we would take him to his CAV every few months for “chemo” and he had a wonderful quality of life for almost 2 years until he let us know that he had had enough. It’s your decision of course and I’m no medical expert but where there’s life there’s hope, and I think Loki sounds like a fighter and if he was mine I’d be bringing him home. Sending my warmest wishes and hugs to you and Loki!
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:40 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

UPDATE:
We spoke with the vet, who agreed, and as i type, Loki is resting comfortably in his modified cage on our coffee table in the living room with us.

The vet and technicians showed us how to administer his anti-inflammatory meds and the proper way to gavage feed him. The provided a gavage tube and syringe as well as the "formula" (for lack of a better word) to feed him.
We will follow up with his avian vet in 3 days time to make sure that he is progressing ok at home.



I am overwhelmed at the response i have received to my post and i want to take a moment to personally thank you all for your kind words.
Laurasea, Flboy, Noodles123, ChristaNL, Tami2, clark_conure, Terry57, Scott, Sandy19, Heedless, MMARC234 and LaManuka your kind words and stories have helped us to know that we arent alone in our experiences. I am thankful for your concerns and your honesty in your advice.



EllenD, my husband and i cried out loud as we read your remarks. We read all this after we got home with Loki and you helped drive home the assurance that we were doing what was best for Loki and i am more confident now that we made the right choice.



All of you are the reason why i turned to THIS forum for help/hope. I have never in my life met a more compassionate group of people that share a common love than i have with everyone here at parrotforums.



I am giving each and every one of you a great big hug of thanks!!!
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:51 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

This is wonderful news! Hugs and hope for Loki’s full recovery. I know you made the best possible decision for your little sweetheart. I bet he’s happy to be home.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:12 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

Wow, this thread, all by itself, does indeed show off what a wonderful site we have.
What beautiful people.
K4rest, I know it took bravery to share this, but I also know YOU KNEW the people here would respond from the heart.
Thank you for including us in Loki's story.
No matter what, Loki will live and depart this life (whenever that may be) as a loved family member, and a member of our community, too.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:33 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

I think it's pretty positive that he responds to you. I hope now he has time to heal, that he makes a full recovery. I agree with Ellen the head injuries take time. We are all rooting for you guys!
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Last edited by Laurasea; 02-10-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 02-10-2019, 05:44 PM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

Wonderful news that Loki is home

I hope you will keep us updated as to how he’s doing now that he’s back among his flock who love him, no doubt he’s already feeling happier just being home.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:14 AM
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Re: Severe Head Trauma - what would you do?

Quote: Originally Posted by K4rest View Post
UPDATE:
We spoke with the vet, who agreed, and as i type, Loki is resting comfortably in his modified cage on our coffee table in the living room with us.

The vet and technicians showed us how to administer his anti-inflammatory meds and the proper way to gavage feed him. The provided a gavage tube and syringe as well as the "formula" (for lack of a better word) to feed him.
We will follow up with his avian vet in 3 days time to make sure that he is progressing ok at home.



I am overwhelmed at the response i have received to my post and i want to take a moment to personally thank you all for your kind words.
Laurasea, Flboy, Noodles123, ChristaNL, Tami2, clark_conure, Terry57, Scott, Sandy19, Heedless, MMARC234 and LaManuka your kind words and stories have helped us to know that we arent alone in our experiences. I am thankful for your concerns and your honesty in your advice.



EllenD, my husband and i cried out loud as we read your remarks. We read all this after we got home with Loki and you helped drive home the assurance that we were doing what was best for Loki and i am more confident now that we made the right choice.



All of you are the reason why i turned to THIS forum for help/hope. I have never in my life met a more compassionate group of people that share a common love than i have with everyone here at parrotforums.



I am giving each and every one of you a great big hug of thanks!!!
Thank you for entrusting the membership with Loki's dilemma. Seems you have a skilled avian vet and are prepared to support Loki with love and encouragement. Looking forward to updates as you are able!
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