Help diagnosing toe issue for Timneh African Grey

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
Grady, a Timneh African Grey, has had a foot problem for over a month. It started about two weeks before I brought him home, and I have had him for just over a month. I have been trying to get help for him. My local avian vet (who is over an hour away), cannot figure out the issue. I am afraid Grady will lose his toe soon, as it getting worse.

I had my vet do x-rays, blood work, and a cytology exam, but for my vet, they were all inconclusive. I am awaiting electronic copies, and will post here as soon as I get them.

I am getting desperate to help Grady.

I have an appointment with another avian vet, but it is a week away, and I do not have high hopes. If someone here could help, I would be most grateful.


Cordially,
Le Grady, a Timneh African Grey, has had a foot problem for over a month. It started about two weeks before I brought him home, and I have had him for just over a month. I have been trying to get help for him. My local avian vet (who is over an hour away), cannot figure out the issue. I am afraid Grady will lose his toe soon, as it getting worse.



I had my vet do x-rays, blood work, and a cytology exam, but for my vet, they were all inconclusive. I am awaiting electronic copies, and will post here as soon as I get them.



I am getting desperate to help Grady.


I have an appointment with another avian vet, but it is a week away, and I do not have high hopes. If someone here could help, I would be most grateful.




Cordially,
Lee

e
 

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bug_n_flock

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Isolated Holler in the Appalachian Wilderness
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B&G Macaw, Galah, 5 cockatiels, 50 billion and a half budgies. We breed and do rescue. Too many to list each individual's name and age etc, but they are each individuals and loved dearly.
Hmm. I hate to speculate, but my first two thoughts would be bumblefoot or cancer. I have been reading up bumblefoot today as we were just given 2 guinea fowl, 1 with a bumblefoot infection. For chickens, etc it seems epsom salts soaking, and potentially sergical debridement and antibiotics. You could also soak in a very dilute clorahexadine(wrong spelling, sorry), or chamomile tea.



Did your vet rule these two possibilities out?


Do you have any earlier photos so we can get some idea of the progression speed and stages?


Best wishes and hope your baby starts to feel better soon!
 

bug_n_flock

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B&G Macaw, Galah, 5 cockatiels, 50 billion and a half budgies. We breed and do rescue. Too many to list each individual's name and age etc, but they are each individuals and loved dearly.
Also, I am seeing the odd red feather in the plumage, is this correct? This would also be concerning if so, and could indicate organ issues. Is your local vet board certified, or the one you have an appointment for in a week? Also, can you move up the appointment? This really should be diagnosed ASAP, for your bird's sake.


Eta: I mean red feathering as would not be typical with a timneh's natural coloring.
 
OP
LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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LeeC

LeeC

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2019
343
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397
Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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Also, I am seeing the odd red feather in the plumage, is this correct? This would also be concerning if so, and could indicate organ issues. Is your local vet board certified, or the one you have an appointment for in a week? Also, can you move up the appointment? This really should be diagnosed ASAP, for your bird's sake.


Eta: I mean red feathering as would not be typical with a timneh's natural coloring.


Yes, he has some red feathers. Here is a picture of his chest, from an avian vet trip, in his carrier. You can see the blood dot from a shot-in-the-dark antibiotics shot.


He was plucking at the rescue, but he has many nice little feathers growing in since he is with me.
 

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LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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Do you have any earlier photos so we can get some idea of the progression speed and stages?


Thanks for the suggestion and the well wishes. Here is the earliest picture I have, from May 1.
 

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LeeC

LeeC

Well-known member
Jun 5, 2019
343
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397
Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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  • Thread starter
  • #8
Hmm. I hate to speculate, but my first two thoughts would be bumblefoot or cancer.

Did your vet rule these two possibilities out?


My avian vet said it was not bumblefoot. I think he is right. There was no issue on the bottom of the foot. Besides, bumblefoot is a non-specific diagnosis.


Bumblefoot.PNG



The cytology exam showed what might be a small amount of early cancer cells, but the pathologist was doubtful.
 
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LeeC

LeeC

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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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  1. Is your local vet board certified, or the one you have an appointment for in a week?
  2. Also, can you move up the appointment?
  3. This really should be diagnosed ASAP, for your bird's sake.

  1. Yes, and yes.
  2. No, I took first available.
  3. Agreed. I have many, many, many hours invested and many hundreds of dollars invested. I'm trying. I called about ten avian vets tonight, all two to three hours away.
 

bug_n_flock

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2018
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207
Isolated Holler in the Appalachian Wilderness
Parrots
B&G Macaw, Galah, 5 cockatiels, 50 billion and a half budgies. We breed and do rescue. Too many to list each individual's name and age etc, but they are each individuals and loved dearly.
Yes a nonspecific doagnosis. But a similar thing could be this... perhaps trauma let in staph or MRSA or something and this is an abcess resulting from such? I really think your best answers will come from a board certified avian vet, which it seems you are working with several. Gosh, I'm sorry they don't have any "emergency" type appointments sooner. Poor guy. Regardless of what it is, a warm water soak would probably help him to feel better temporarily, and if it is an abcess of some sort, that could potentially help it to drain.



Did they do a blood panel to see about organ and immune function?
 

Owlet

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Are there any other vets in your area that could give your bird a second look over? Sometimes a 2nd pair of eyes can shed light on an issue or has experienced something like this before.
 

bug_n_flock

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2018
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Isolated Holler in the Appalachian Wilderness
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B&G Macaw, Galah, 5 cockatiels, 50 billion and a half budgies. We breed and do rescue. Too many to list each individual's name and age etc, but they are each individuals and loved dearly.
Owlet, I think the OP is not interested in people telling them vet/avian vet.... they seem to be a little defensive on this point, and also seem to be doing what they can do when it comes to the vet issue. :/ That's why I suggested the warm water foot soak, it is something that can be done right now to help to alleviate any discomfort the bird may be in, which if I am reading the situation right, seems to be what they are looking for... that, and different ideas of things to bring up when at the vet in a week.. I think everyone is on the same page that a vet is ultimately what needs to happen, and OP has apparently contacted several already.


(From phone, as all my posts are. Please forgive any typos or whatever)
 

OutlawedSpirit

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I agree with Bug about trying the foot soak. It almost looks like it could be an abscess formed around something stuck in the toe still. A soak would help draw it out if that's the case.

Also if it is even possible that it could be cancer or that the infection could spread, having the tote amputated isn't the worst thing. Birds adapt really well, and compared to his life, a toe is nothing. My DYH is missing both of his front toes on one foot and unless you actually look, you'd never know from the way he climbs around and plays. Just something to think about.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
 
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OP
LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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Are there any other vets in your area that could give your bird a second look over? Sometimes a 2nd pair of eyes can shed light on an issue or has experienced something like this before.


Yes, thanks. My closest avian vet, who I'm working with, is over an hour away.


As I mentioned in my initial post,
I have an appointment with another avian vet, but it is a week away,...


She is an hour and a half away.



I've been calling others, too, trying to get an appointment sooner.
 
OP
LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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Owlet, I think the OP is not interested in people telling them vet/avian vet.... they seem to be a little defensive on this point, and also seem to be doing what they can do when it comes to the vet issue. :/ That's why I suggested the warm water foot soak, it is something that can be done right now to help to alleviate any discomfort the bird may be in, which if I am reading the situation right, seems to be what they are looking for... that, and different ideas of things to bring up when at the vet in a week.. I think everyone is on the same page that a vet is ultimately what needs to happen, and OP has apparently contacted several already.


(From phone, as all my posts are. Please forgive any typos or whatever)


Thank you for understanding me! :eek: It seems I was unclear. The subject of my post is: Help diagnosing toe issue for Timneh African Grey. Then, in the first short paragraph of my original post, I stated that I am working with an avian vet. The first reply I get here:
Go to an Avian vet.


Me, defensive? :08: Sorry. No, I don't feel defensive. I feel that people reply without reading what was offered. While I appreciate replies and help greatly, I will point out unhelpful help. :)
 
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LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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That's why I suggested the warm water foot soak, it is something that can be done right now to help to alleviate any discomfort the bird may be in


Thanks. That is a good idea. Grady did not like standing in water from the start. I offered him a very shallow bird bath on day one. :] He love a mist spray, but not standing water. Anyway, given that, I was spraying his foot with high-grade epsom salt diluted in distilled water.


Last night, late, I went back to the rescue, and she tended to his toe: peroxide, then a nice coating of Elta SilverGel, then wrap. She did a good job; it is still wrapped this morning!


I plan to undress it this evening, to inspect, and retreat it.
 
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LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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3
397
Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #17
I agree with Bug about trying the foot soak. It almost looks like it could be an abscess formed around something stuck in the toe still. A soak would help draw it out if that's the case.

Also if it is even possible that it could be cancer or that the infection could spread, having the tote amputated isn't the worst thing. Birds adapt really well, and compared to his life, a toe is nothing. My DYH is missing both of his front toes on one foot and unless you actually look, you'd never know from the way he climbs around and plays. Just something to think about.


Thank you. I will try a soak again, after I undress it tonight. It really is a good idea.


I saw a CAG at the rescue who has no toes--but he does not know it, he gets around quite well. I am really trying to save the toe, but I have come to accept that amputation may be in his best interest, overall, soon.


, Lee
 
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LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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  • #18
I have thought for nearly a week now that this is constricted toe syndrome, also referred to as constrictive toe syndrome. I will post some new pictures ASAP.
 
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LeeC

LeeC

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Jun 5, 2019
343
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Harrisburg, PA
Parrots
Timneh: Grady;
Senegal: Charlie;
Sun Conure: Peaches (deceased)
Senegal: Georgia
Peach-fronted Conure: Milton (foster)
Brown-throated Conure: Pumpkin (foster)
Senegal: Fletcher
Senegal: Ivy
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  • #19
Attached is a picture of Grady's foot from the day after I adopted him.

On Wednesday night, the parrot rescue owner had some SilverGel, so we tried that on it and wrapped it for a day.

https://eltamd.com/product/eltamd-silvergel/

Before we unwrapped it, I had very realistic expectations given it had only been 24 hours. I just hoped it was not continuing to look worse.

Thursday night, the wound, from the cytology sample, progressed in healing to an amazing degree in just 24 hours! The diameter of his toe reduced noticeably, too.

Grady's foot looked better, but not normal or good.

Still Thursday night, the parrot rescue owner wanted to moisten the toe, so she applied an emollient cream and wrapped the toe again.

That brings us to last night. His foot looked about the same as the previous night. I undressed his toe, rinsed it with saline solution, applied Colloidal Silver Gel, waited a bit, then applied lanolin. I did not wrap it, to let it get some air and light, and so I could see it this morning.

Colloidal Silver Gel

It looks a little better.
 

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bug_n_flock

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Jan 2, 2018
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Isolated Holler in the Appalachian Wilderness
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B&G Macaw, Galah, 5 cockatiels, 50 billion and a half budgies. We breed and do rescue. Too many to list each individual's name and age etc, but they are each individuals and loved dearly.
I'm very glad it looks better. I was just thinking about little Grady last night. Can you post a picture of how it looks now? I hope he continues to improve!!!!
 

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