Amazon with Borna Virus

Hi everybody, My name is Glenn and I have read this forum for years and have learned a lot. Thanks .I have one bird he came to live with me about 3 years ago.He is a Blue Fronted Amazon named Barnabas .We think he is about 20 years old but don’t know for sure. When he arrived here he was rather under weight. About 360 grams and probably should be 400- 450 grams. His diet was seed based and human food. When he got here he was transitioned to Harrison’s high potency with a little Zuprem pellet diet and and a small amount of nuts mostly pecans. He has had blood work ,fecal and a wellness check shortly after he got here and yearly since .He likes the Harrison’s and it was no trouble to get him to adapt to new diet he gained a little weight and got up to about 385 grams but I never got him above that. He seems happy ,talks a lot and is very friendly .He gets lots of attention . He is not flighted (clipped) but is very athletic and active. A few months ago he started to lose a little bit of weight (360 grams) so back to vet. He tested positive for Borna Virus but negative for Antiganglioside Antibody. I don’t think he can lose much more weight without dire results. He has no systems of any kind except the weight lose. I have tried everything I can think of to get some weight on him. He is a very picky eater and decided a few weeks ago that pecans were not tasty any more .I have tried and he has rejected roast beef ,chicken and ham , he will not eat sweet potatoes but will eat baked French Fries (no salt). My current vet thinks the Harrison’s is a better bet than Roudybush for this problem and doesn’t want to start NSAIDs . Is it time for a 2 nd opinion ? Any suggestions would be welcomed as I am going crazy with worry .Its not easy watching an animal you care about wasting away.Thanks for taking the time to read this.

1. I am very sorry you are going through this! So much stress and anxiety, I am sure! Noodles was quite sick for awhile and it was awful.

My bird will eat plain oatmeal with some pear "Beach Nut" (brand) baby food mixed in (they also sell banana etc, which she likes)...Mashed potatoes (no butter/salt), plain rice, plain quinoa, NON-FORTIFIED pasta, baked potato, scrambled eggs (no salt ), egg whites of a hard-boiled egg (yolks could work--mine just doesn't like them), perhaps coconut (or coconut oil--but research that first, because it may be dangerous to overload him with fat if he isn't eating well)..corn (junky, but well-liked)...breads are a hit but they are not the best because they contain a bunch of added stuff and are often fortified for human vitamin levels...mine will also eat tortillas, but again you are looking at added salt and not that much nutrition +potential preservatives.
Trying to think....

You should avoid meats for the most part (not natural and very salty in many cases)...
Salt and preservatives should be avoided as well, in addition to sugars etc---some natural sugars are okay in fruits but you don't want to overdo it...but I also get that you just want him to eat anything at this point.

Babyfood purees can be okay but you MUST check the label because some have weird stuff in them (like avocado, salt etc...and citric acid is in many of them as well, but that can be okay if it is kept to a minimum). You have to make sure they don't have added vitamins too.

Avoid fibrous foods that will fill him up without much fat/nutrition (like lettuce...etc).

Alexia organic sweet potato fries are not a healthy food for a parrot, but might be better than a standard french fry. I wouldn't give much of these (AT ALL), but my bird does like them--used bits of them to sneak meds a few times. They are in the frozen section with the gluten free stuff generally.

As you likely know, BornaVirus is associated with PDD and weight loss is one of the indicators.

That said, your BFA came to you underweight, but BFA's are a huge family and if your's is a nominate at an age in the twenties, it is just as likely that you may have one that suffers from the effects of inbreeding. As a group, they are underweight with an average of 350 grams.

You can consider having your BFA seen by another Avian Medical Professional or have the tests run again. But this time have your Vet also consider a more detailed view of the digestive system looking for non-digested food and/or a belly filled with bugs that are eating what the Parrot is eating, leaving little for the Parrot.

FYI: The diet should include a greater percentage of veggies as Amazons as a group that have a very wide dietary requirement and it is possible that your Amazon has become overwhelmed with pecans...

What recommendations did the Vet provide regarding treatment /diet?

Welcome to the forums Glenn and Barnabas. We're glad you're here.

ABV is a scary thing, but doesn't necessarily mean your bird will become symptomatic. Many parrots are ABV positive, and can be carriers for their entire life. Others can become symptomatic very quickly. My Ekkie Tucker is positive. When I got that diagnosis, I was completely devastated. He was only 4 years old, and in perfect health except he had started toe tapping, which prompted the vet visit and blood work. I figured out the cause of the tapping, in this case, purple grapes. My hope is that he'll be one of the ones that never progress with disease. Not sure if it's accurate, but I've seen reports claiming as many as 60% of all domestic parrots in the US would test positive. It can be transmitted bird to bird, typically via contact with feces. It can also be passed from parent to chick, and apparently, they can be born with it from infected mother.

Aside from weight, does Barnabas have any other symptoms? Did the vet comment on his fecal sample? How is his weight? Not the number, but on physical exam, is he under weight or normal feeling? Every species has average weight ranges, but we really need to pay attention to what is a healthy weight for each individual bird. My YNA for example, is a tiny bit plump, but within reason, and healthy at her consistent 640-650g. She's just a big girl. My Ekkie is solid at 420-425, and extremely active, ABV or not. So, while typical weight for a BFA may be more than your bird weighs, consider that if he's otherwise healthy, he may just be on the smaller side. I do agree though, weight loss is always reason for concern.

Now, if he is symptomatic, that's a whole different thing. Sadly, there is no cure. Generally, it's treated by managing the symptoms as they arise, and yes, it's beyond heartbreaking to see your dear friend waste away if it comes to that. Fingers crossed for you that things are okay.

I have had two fecals run since this started. The first the good bacteria was low .2 weeks on a probiotic and the fecal was normal. He has always been underweight. Keel bone has always been very prominent,it sticks out at least 4 or 5 mm from surrounding tissue. Maybe a bit more lately.

Pasta is High in calories , use cooked veggies or a cook and purée them , whole grain pasta, they even have hidden veggies pasta,

Or you can do rice and veggies,

Scrambled eggs with veggies cooked in

I wouldn’t do cold cuts of meat. They are to processed, chemicals, . Protein doesn’t put on weight.

Sorry to hear of the virus, there is much to learn about these viruses still

Harrisons makes an easily digestible recovery formula, if he will eat it, and also carries a prebiotic and probiotic. I'm not familiar with Amazons but maybe research red palm oil? I used that when my grey was sick. A few drops in her recovery formula.
Little Bird had trouble with weight gain and loss too but had a normal fecal. Eventually she started regurgitating and they did a crop swab and found yeast. She was treated with nystatin and Reglan and gained 10grams which she has kept on. She wouldn't eat the recovery formula but scrambled eggs are her absolute favorite and even prior to the meds they seemed to help her gain some weight. I did the plain unsalted French fries too and other high carb stuff, when you are desperate for weight gain and have a picky bird, you try stuff you probably normally wouldn't. A bird who is underweight can also have trouble regulating heat. It might be worth a try to use a bird cage heater and see if that helps. I really hope he gains some weight soon.

I recently heard about EmerAid Intensive Care Omnivore. Apparently vets and rehabilitators use it with extremely sick animals to get them to put on weight and make sure they're getting enough nutrients. I wonder if it would've made a difference with Ria and Tiki. I gave them vitamins, probiotics, chop, sprouted grains and pulses, nuts, sunflower seeds, waxworms, butterworms, and black soldierfly larvae, but they never got any stronger (they were on all sorts of antibiotics as well). Even after Tiki recovered from AGY, his poop was still horrible and he actually had to do a little dance and squat to get the poop to come out. And it would squirt out, kind of like penguin poop, and you could actually hear it when it came out. By the time I took him to the vet to try to save him when he developed a pneumonia (it suddenly developed during the night), he could no longer perch or fly, and no longer regrew his feathers.

He had a granuloma, but I wonder if he had avian bornavirus. When I first adopted him and Ria, they both had fairly good looking feathers, and they could fly, perch, and hold food in their feet. I'll just check the symptoms of PDD and compare them to Tiki's symptoms. So, he had issues with his weight despite having a good appetite, intermittent shaking of his head, balance problems, muscle atrophy, weakness, diarrhea, constant infections, weird mouth gaping... I'm not gonna say he definitely had PDD, but I can't believe neither of his vets suggested he might have PDD. I fed him so many high fat bugs, but he wouldn't pass the 68 gram mark. He and Ria were in the 40g range when I got them.