Mac is in boot camp for the next 12 weeks..............

or until I drop from exhaustion. I don't know how many of you have been following Mac and me and his feather destruction especially after his visit with his previous owner, which caused it to become progressively worse.

Well, the vet has suggested I put a collar on him before he destroys the feathers to the point they will not grow back. I couldn't bring myself to do the collar thing. So I told Mackie, this is it, one more chance before I subject you to the humiliation of wearing the dreaded COLLAR.

So a few days ago, Mackie started his 12 weeks of basic training in mtdoramike's book camp for unruly birds. I decided it was time for a little tough love. So, I have a couple of clickers that I was planning to use for training and figured this would be the perfect time to use them. So every time Mac even looks like he's chewing his feathers, he gets clicked and after the second click, he gets squirted with water with aloe in it. He gets a daily bath as well. I started staying up with Mac a couple of nights ago until my eye lids can't stay open any longer to ensure he's not chewing his feathers. I stayed up with him until 3-4:00am for the last two nights and tonight will be no different.

Hopefully this will break the habit and distract him. He's worse with the feather destruction at night when he's put to bed and no one is there to correct him. I have been finding quite a bit of feathers in the bottom of his cage in the mornings. So I decided a little tough love was in order here.

Now, if he goes for 30 minutes or so without chewing his feathers, I will give him a little reward like a nut, seed, piece of wheat cereal, cheese (his favorite) or something like that. So far, he's started to sprout new feathers on his chest, back, neck and wing areas that he's managed to leave alone. Hopefully this is positive progress. I have my fingers crossed.

Re: Mac is in boot cap for the next 12 weeks..............

Good luck! Maybe your wife can assist whilst you catch up on kip during the day?

Keep us updated, good luck!

Lola might be next to be on boot camp....She's very willful....she wants on my shoulders but I don't like that so I push her back and she kept pushing forward. Then I was forced to bring out the stick to place it between us. If I'm not holding on the stick she'll grab it and toss it on the floor and proceed to my shoulder again....lol....my partner sits there laughing....I don't think that helps....

I would think that if you could encourage him to play with toys, to forage, and to preen normally, and reward *those* behaviors, you might be able to teach him to leave his feathers alone...

In Melinda Johnson's book, Clicker Training For Birds, she talks about how an owner was able to teach two birds to stop plucking via clicker training. She rewarded for good behavior and didn't use any kind of punishment or distraction.

Oh, I do not envy you in this situation! Good for you, though, being proactive in getting him to stop this behavior! We'll be pulling for you!

Wow it take real determination, congratulations. Good luck with it all, lets hope it works.

What an awesome effort, Mike. But golly...you have got to be SO tired, no?

I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed that boot camp will do the trick for your Macki.

MonicaMc said:

I would think that if you could encourage him to play with toys, to forage, and to preen normally, and reward *those* behaviors, you might be able to teach him to leave his feathers alone...

In Melinda Johnson's book, Clicker Training For Birds, she talks about how an owner was able to teach two birds to stop plucking via clicker training. She rewarded for good behavior and didn't use any kind of punishment or distraction.

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I have bought hundreds of dollars worth of toys, from foraging to entertaining to shreadable trying to get him to play with them to no avail. He will play with a few foraging toys as long as there are treats in them that he can get to and eat. But that's about it. The problem with mac is, when the lights go out, he starts digging. I have tried the clicker with no punishment for bad behavior, but that hasn't worked either.

To me, birds like children need to learn that there are consequences for bad behavior just like there are rewards for good behavior and the consequences need to be something that he doesn't like just like the reward needs to be something that they like. Mac hates the squirt bottle something awful. I started to use the bottle of Cease for feather destructive birds, which he REALLY HATES, but I decided on simple water solution with aloe. It's not what's in the bottle that he doesn't like so much as it is the bottle itself along with the verbal "NO".

JerseyWendy said:

What an awesome effort, Mike. But golly...you have got to be SO tired, no?

I'll keep my fingers and toes crossed that boot camp will do the trick for your Macki.

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Yeah, I'm getting to old for this kind of thing. I remember a time when I could function pretty darn well with only a few hours sleep, I just didn't remember how long ago that was.

If staying up with him means having any kind of light on (even if it's just the TV), you might be doing more harm than good. Lack of proper sleep causes depression and anxiety in birds, two main causes of FDB.

I would put him a strict low protein diet and a solar schedule with good quality full spectrum lights as well as UVA and UVB output; three baths/two hours of flying/three hours of one-on-one (can be used for training flight recall or whatever) daily and, if that doesn't work, keep at it with the collar (it doesn't have to be an Elizabethan collar which bothers them, it can be a tube collar which doesn't).

I have never had a bird who plucked but i'm wondering if the bird can wear a hoodie to keep him from plucking as much, or will he just pick at the hoodie and rip it off? I thought i saw vests specifically for pluckers before and they look more comfy than the collar.

Sounds like you really do have a tough job ahead! Best of luck with Mac!

ruffledfeathers, they do make vests/socks/hoodies for parrots, however birds can just chew through it or become more stressed out with it on than off... so it's not always a good solution.

Pajarita said:

If staying up with him means having any kind of light on (even if it's just the TV), you might be doing more harm than good. Lack of proper sleep causes depression and anxiety in birds, two main causes of FDB.

I would put him a strict low protein diet and a solar schedule with good quality full spectrum lights as well as UVA and UVB output; three baths/two hours of flying/three hours of one-on-one (can be used for training flight recall or whatever) daily and, if that doesn't work, keep at it with the collar (it doesn't have to be an Elizabethan collar which bothers them, it can be a tube collar which doesn't).

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I'm not giving Mac enough time to get depressed. If anything, I'm the one getting depressed and anxiety. He is not free flighted, he's also not clipped. The bird groomer will not even touch his wings because as she put it, "his wings are horrible and look like lace" and if she did clip his wings, he would drop like a rock and hurt himself. He gets at least 30 minutes to an hour of outside time in the sunshine as well as his room is equipt with UV lighting although he's rarely in his room for more than an hour or two before bed time. He has all the time in the world with me and my wife since we are both retired. He is on a low protein diet.

So far Boot Camp Charlie has started growing some nice NEW feathers on his wings and seems to be leaving them alone at least for the time being. Had I not put him in boot camp, he would have already attacked those new feathers in a minute.

Like I told Mac, it's me and you kid. I'll be doing the Drill Instructor thing again tonight. Like my grandmother used to say "what don't kill you will fatten you" and "what doesn't hurt you will make you stronger". Hopefully it helps Mac. I have cut all ties with the previous owner so there will not be that distraction anymore.

I applaud your diligent efforts Mike ! For the past month I have been volunteering at my son's theater group and havent been home from 8:30 AM to 1:00 PM . Ruby started to rub the feathers off her face in 2 spots. Since the theater job is over, I also have had to be very watchful to stop this behavior. I have added extra showers and a new homemade foraging toy that seem to be distracting her. I purchased a cardboard star from Michael's craft store and put a few almonds and some coconut shreders and some tissue paper and other small things inside. She works hard all day to remove and chew up what is inside. The top half of the star comes off, so she doesnt chew through the box, she just works to open it each time to retrieve something to destroy. I have ordered her a fancy Ekkie swing for our home school classroom so that she can be in class with us also. She just missed her mommy and I guess this was her way of showing it.

I did take Ruby to theater rehearsal on the last day and she really enjoyed playing with all the kids. She spoke more that day to strangers than she ever has. It was certainly a treat for Ruby and the kids. Though I did have to educate many of them who immediately stated they wanted a parrot also. I had to tell them how much work it is to have such a well trained bird and how much work the clean up after them is. Plus how much of their allowance would go to the toys and food and vet costs.

mtdoramike said:

Pajarita said:

If staying up with him means having any kind of light on (even if it's just the TV), you might be doing more harm than good. Lack of proper sleep causes depression and anxiety in birds, two main causes of FDB.

I would put him a strict low protein diet and a solar schedule with good quality full spectrum lights as well as UVA and UVB output; three baths/two hours of flying/three hours of one-on-one (can be used for training flight recall or whatever) daily and, if that doesn't work, keep at it with the collar (it doesn't have to be an Elizabethan collar which bothers them, it can be a tube collar which doesn't).

Click to expand...

I'm not giving Mac enough time to get depressed. If anything, I'm the one getting depressed and anxiety. He is not free flighted, he's also not clipped. The bird groomer will not even touch his wings because as she put it, "his wings are horrible and look like lace" and if she did clip his wings, he would drop like a rock and hurt himself. He gets at least 30 minutes to an hour of outside time in the sunshine as well as his room is equipt with UV lighting although he's rarely in his room for more than an hour or two before bed time. He has all the time in the world with me and my wife since we are both retired. He is on a low protein diet.

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Then you are doing all the right things except for keeping him up late. The problem with birds and sleep is that they can perceive light even when their eyes are closed (mammals can't) and this activates their pineal gland and does not allow them to get quality rest which causes all kinds of disarrangements in them, one of them been not producing enough serotonin (the happy hormone) so they get depressed/anxious and this makes them pluck. That's one of the reasons (the other has to do with sexual hormone production) why keeping parrots with behavioral problems (and FDB is considered a behavioral problem) at a strict solar schedule is recommended.

OK, my butt was draggin a bit last night after about 6 nights of boot camp training and staying up to the wee wee hoursof the morning, I decided to take a break and do something a little different to shake it up a bit. That and to get some sleep. I remember my parents saying years ago when they would give me a spanking that it "hurt them more than it did me". I didn't buy it then at all. But I can safely say this boot camp training with Mac is definitely hurting me more than it is him hhahahahaha.

I decided to throw him off his game last night with a different distraction. I decided to leave him on his playstand all night long rather than putting him in his cage in a separate room. So around 10:00pm, all the lights in the livingroom were turned off along with the TV and then we went to bed. When I got up this morning and checked to see how Mac did, I was pleasantly surprised. No hair cutting, feather biting or any signs of it. I placed some what paper towels on the bottom so it would be easy to detect.

WAY TO GO MACKY!

Glad to see things are going well . To bad you have to give up your sleep tho! I think I would've passed out by now .

AWESOME, Mike!!! I truly hope you can (both) keep it up. I'm getting tired just thinking about how little sleep you've been getting.