Wow! I am sitting here shuddering. Have just read this entire thread, plus the toxic list, and can hardly believe I haven't managed to kill my dear baby. Among other things, she LIKES papaya seeds, although she doesn't eat the seeds themselves, just the squishy part on the outside. But NO MORE!

Two questions:
1. I think it was Keupi who wrote "Veggies, like a potato - cook." Does that apply to all veggies? I have been feeding a lot of raw veggies, assuming they are more nutritious that way.
2. What about flowers? My little darlin loves to shred a hibiscus flower, and will eat others if given the opportunity

LoriP

Seeds of fruits are only dangerous if they crack the seed open in their beak - which most parrots would do without hesitation, hence the warning. If she doesn't crack open the papaya seeds but rather just 'cleans' them off there is not risk at all. However I can't imagine a parrot would keep such a habit for very long without biting into a few.

Most veggies are just fine raw - some are better that way. As a general rule if you'd eat it raw (and it's not on the toxic list otherwise) then so can your bird. So carrots, celery, peapods, bell peppers, broccoli and the like are all great raw.

I just discovered the "thanks" button -- will have to go back to my previous thread and thank everyone!

I feel reassured. As far as I can remember the only thing I have been feeding that I wouldn't eat raw is okra. And yams but I assume they are OK. -- she loves to shread them and also raw carrots!
LP

BTW a couple of times I have fastened the upper part of a stalk of celery -- the part with the leaves -- to the inside wall of her cage. Don't know how much she ate, but she sure had a ball tearing it to pieces. Kept her occupied for quite a while

Re toxic fumes, does anyone know anything about the "catalytic(sp?)" liners in so called "continuous cleaning" ovens?
Lori

Do you already have one, or are you thinking of getting one?

There are a variety of coatings that are used for catalytic cleaning. While I don't know particulars about any of them at the moment I suspect the answer would depend heavily on which coating was used.

For the not-so-careful readers these are different than 'self-cleaning' ovens which are VERY dangerous for parrots regardless of materials. Just say NO to self-cleaning, to catalytic-cleaning I can't claim a firm no, but rather an I don't know and I wouldn't risk it if I had the choice.

The best option for a reasonably easy to clean oven in a home with parrots is an oven with removable side-plates/walls and floor. Be careful as some of these plates are coated as well, but it is not hard to find un-coated stainless steel for these ovens. It still takes a little bit of elbow grease, but you can clean it in the sink rather than climbing in the oven - with a bit of soaking in detergent these are pretty easy to keep clean.

Thank you so much for your comments. Unfortunately I do have a "continuous clean" oven, which I am not in a position to replace at this time, although I will eventually. I guess the answer for the moment it to keep Snoopy well away from the kitchen when I am using it. Fortunately our house is very well ventilated -- lots of windows and they are almost always open.
Thanks especially for the warning about self cleaning ovens, as that is the direction I probably would have gone with a replacement.
One more question -- i know fumes from non stick cookware are toxic, but how about food cooked in it? Unfortunately all my current cookware is non-stick, and again I will not be able to replace it immediately, as high quality stainless is simply not available where I live -- I may need to get something shipped from the states.
I know I am probably being a pest, but have gotten somewhat paranoid after reading this thread!
Lori

Don't worry about being a pest, these are important topics.

Non-stick cookware can be very dangerous, but at the same time some of the warnings are a bit overstated. For the quick answer food cooked in non-stick cookware is perfectly safe for birds and humans.

The danger in non-stick cookware, specifically PTFE (ie Teflon) coated pans is that at a high enough temperature the coating will break down giving off toxic fumes. These fumes are very toxic and can quickly kill birds that are exposed to the fumes.

What is often overstated in the case against Teflon however is how often such fumes are released. Under normal cooking conditions the cookware would never reach temperatures sufficient to break down the PTFE coating. I don't remember the exact number, but I think it was in the range of 600 degrees F before any fumes are given off. Most cooking oil would ignite well below that temperature, which means if you have a teflon pan with cooking oil in it and you still have eyebrows then there are no PTFE fumes.

Is it still a good idea to change out non-stick cookware? Yes, for the most part it is but normal responsible cooking with teflon pans would not be a concern. All the horror stories of birds dying from these fumes involve someone putting a dry pan on a burner then falling asleep, going out for coffee, etc. And while accidents do happen if you ever leave open flames unattended in your kitchen then teflon fumes may not be the biggest concern.

Self cleaning ovens are coated with a PTFE coating or other similar material. These ovens DO reach temperatures well in excess of 600 degrees during the cleaning cycle - hence these ARE quite dangerous as they will give off fumes in their normal use.

I still have a couple non-stick pans that I use regularly. I never 'preheat' a dry pan, I don't use them in the oven, and I never leave them unattended (while cooking). I did get rid of my George Forman grill as these are preheated dry for normal use. George Forman style grills, pancake/waffle irons, and other such appliances are a concern while other teflon cookware is safe as long as its used responsibly - but of course getting rid of them is the only sure way to prevent any accidents (forgetting about a pan on the stove, etc).

Also there are now alternate non-stick materials. Many companies are using silicon based coatings now instead of PTFE. Silicon compounds do not pose the same risks as PTFE and are often considered safe for use around birds - it's certainly true that they don't pose the SAME risks as PTFE, but I'm not sure how well it has been established that silicon doesn't pose other risks.

In my book you can't beat a well seasoned cast iron pan - simple, easy, and nothing to worry about with that.

Also Earthenware crocks and Aluminum baking sheets make great alternatives to Non-stick bakeware ...

Honestly though, NOTHING can replace my seasoned cast iron skillet - except for maybe a BIGGER well seasoned cast iron skillet ... I love that thing!

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