Dutch law bans hand-Rearing of Young parrots: What's Your Opinion?

findi · Aug 16, 2014

Hi, Frank Indiviglio here. I’m a zoologist and book author, recently retired from a career spent at several zoos, aquariums, and museums, including over 20 years with the Bronx Zoo.
This month (July, 2014) the Netherlands became the first country to outlaw the hand-rearing of parrots. The law covers all Psittacines, including parakeets, cockatoos and lovebirds, and imposes fines and/or jail time upon violators. Bird breeders and private owners may not remove nestlings from their parents before the young are feeding on their own and otherwise independent; species-specific time frames are set out in the legislation. The process of hand-rearing, long touted as a means of bonding parrots to people, has been linked to a host of behavioral and health problems. While several countries extend similar protections to young dogs, cats and monkeys, the Dutch law is the first to include birds. [FONT=&quot]R[/FONT]ead the rest of the article here Dutch Law Bans Hand-Rearing Young Parrots | That Bird Blog
Please also check out my posts on Twitter Crows as Pets: The African Pied Crow, a Most Intelligent Bird and Face Book http://on.fb.me/KckP1m

My Bio, with photos of animals I’ve been lucky enough to work with That Pet Place Welcomes Frank Indiviglio | That Reptile Blog

Thanks, Frank

BirdSquawk · Aug 16, 2014

I can see what they are trying to avoid: unnecessary suffering of the parents when their babies are taken, but it seems a bit extreme to punish those who try it, what if the babies were rejected by their parents or were orphans or part of a too-big family? Alternatively, baby parrots can be socialized properly through consistent handling while the parents raise them, and it wouldn't be so hard on them.

findi · Aug 16, 2014

BirdSquawk said:
I can see what they are trying to avoid: unnecessary suffering of the parents when their babies are taken, but it seems a bit extreme to punish those who try it, what if the babies were rejected by their parents or were orphans or part of a too-big family? Alternatively, baby parrots can be socialized properly through consistent handling while the parents raise them, and it wouldn't be so hard on them.

Hi ,

Thanks; I believe the law focuses on the problems that often turn arise among young birds; parents etc were not mentioned as far as I recall. It believe also that it addresses deliberate removal; I'm sure its application will evolve as it is applied and interpreted by the authorities, best, Frank

SilverSage · Aug 16, 2014

Actually, this article http://www.fosterparrots.com/wp-con...gative-Effects-of-Hand-Rearing-on-Parrots.pdf is what you find following the links. It says a bunch of things and makes claims that honestly, I have suspected for years. I am not ready to "stand up and fight" about it yet, because I want to do more of my own research first and gain more first hand experience before truly "taking a stand" here. I have some questions I need answered, so please no one get mad at me for voicing my TENTATIVE thoughts.

1.) I have raised dozens of stone-tame babies without ever hand feeding. They were all budgies and cockatiels.
2.) Scout and Blue's breeder believes that parent raised babies are more confident.
3.) Every pair that has successfully bred for me has been tame. Some have even been wonderful pets.

To me this negates a LOT of the arguments I have heard about how we NEED to hand feed in order to have tame babies. It has also been my experience that tame parents often are fine with babies being removed from the nest for handling, and returned for feeding. Also mentioned (I dont remember which page it was on) was that tame parents teach babies not to be afraid of the caretaker - this has been my experience as well. I have NOT had any parents reject babies, attack them, or any other such thing because of humans interacting with babies.

4.) If what the paper claims about poor husbandry is true, I expect that baby bird prices will rise in all countries where hand rearing is outlawed, because breeders will be forced to put much more money and time into enclosures, diet, etc. Also if not hand raising, tame breeding stock would become much more important, which would probably increase the price of stock.
5) This may be tempered by the fact that hand rearing equipment, formula, etc would not be needed.
6) Not hand rearing would also, at least temporarily, cut the supply of babies for a while, driving the price up even more. This would hopefully help to temper the "impulse buying" of parrots. It has been my experience that most people put a lot more research into buying a more expensive bird, which benefits everyone involved (except people pushing birds on uneducated buyers).
7)It might also lead a more general acceptance of buy and non-tame bird and taming it yourself rather than only purchasing a tame pet. In my opinion, while a tame baby is a delight, you learn a LOT about parrots by being forced to tame one rather than having it handed to you already tame.

I have more thoughts but most of them are still half formed.

Phlox · Aug 16, 2014

I was able to tame parent raised budgies at my house years ago. Again, I was told that was weird but apparently not? I don't know enough about breeding to have a real opinion, but I always wondered if handling and socialization as I did was just as good as hand feeding. I would give the bappies some extra food, just as treats, but their parents did all the hard work. They were the tamest budgies I ever got to have...their daddy was a very tame English and their mom was the wildest thing ever, but didn't mind my interference at all.

SilverSage · Aug 16, 2014

There is evidence across many species that babies taken too early from their parents suffer socially, and though it can be overcome may always struggle with social interaction with people, based on not understanding their own social interactions. This is seen in puppies all the time.

findi · Aug 16, 2014

SilverSage said:
Actually, this article http://www.fosterparrots.com/wp-con...gative-Effects-of-Hand-Rearing-on-Parrots.pdf is what you find following the links. It says a bunch of things and makes claims that honestly, I have suspected for years. I am not ready to "stand up and fight" about it yet, because I want to do more of my own research first and gain more first hand experience before truly "taking a stand" here. I have some questions I need answered, so please no one get mad at me for voicing my TENTATIVE thoughts.

1.) I have raised dozens of stone-tame babies without ever hand feeding. They were all budgies and cockatiels.
2.) Scout and Blue's breeder believes that parent raised babies are more confident.
3.) Every pair that has successfully bred for me has been tame. Some have even been wonderful pets.

To me this negates a LOT of the arguments I have heard about how we NEED to hand feed in order to have tame babies. It has also been my experience that tame parents often are fine with babies being removed from the nest for handling, and returned for feeding. Also mentioned (I dont remember which page it was on) was that tame parents teach babies not to be afraid of the caretaker - this has been my experience as well. I have NOT had any parents reject babies, attack them, or any other such thing because of humans interacting with babies.

4.) If what the paper claims about poor husbandry is true, I expect that baby bird prices will rise in all countries where hand rearing is outlawed, because breeders will be forced to put much more money and time into enclosures, diet, etc. Also if not hand raising, tame breeding stock would become much more important, which would probably increase the price of stock.
5) This may be tempered by the fact that hand rearing equipment, formula, etc would not be needed.
6) Not hand rearing would also, at least temporarily, cut the supply of babies for a while, driving the price up even more. This would hopefully help to temper the "impulse buying" of parrots. It has been my experience that most people put a lot more research into buying a more expensive bird, which benefits everyone involved (except people pushing birds on uneducated buyers).
7)It might also lead a more general acceptance of buy and non-tame bird and taming it yourself rather than only purchasing a tame pet. In my opinion, while a tame baby is a delight, you learn a LOT about parrots by being forced to tame one rather than having it handed to you already tame.

I have more thoughts but most of them are still half formed.

Hi ..thanks. I agree, definitely other ways to tame youngsters, acclimate to people etc, and many pairs do well with removal-replacement. but there are so many variables, among individuals and species, and I think overall many of the concerns expressed by those in favor of the law are valid. Price increases wouldn't be a bad thing in my opinion, might help to assure some forethought, and that owners were financially able to provide the care/facilities that are needed...but again, no way to predict for sure, and much will vary but country. best, Frank

SilverSage · Aug 16, 2014

Also, as the article mentions, the well-being of the birds is what is suffering the most. I don't believe any real parrot lover would want their beloved pet but not care about the welfare of his parents. Yes, some birds would reject handling and replacing their babies, and it will be different across species and individuals, but there are MANY difficulties involved with parrot breeding - this one could be addressed. Perhaps specific socialization or training techniques could be used to teach parents to allow this kind of interaction, or maybe ways of preventing them from even knowing about it. These are actually things I am studying in my own flock right now. Granted, I have mostly small birds and will never breed Macaws or Amazons, so I will have difficulty observing many of the most popular species.

As parrot owners many of us change our lives greatly to accommodate our feathered pets. If it is proved to us (and again I say IF) that the current methods of breeding and rearing are actually inhumane, then how could those of us who cherish these lives do anything but agree, and adapt? Again, I am not saying these claims ARE true, but they merit further inquiry on all our parts.

Mike17 · Aug 16, 2014

Dutch law bans hand-Rearing of Young parrots: What's Your Opinion?

One word: Stupid. Another example of political correctness gone mad.

Dutch law bans hand-Rearing of Young parrots: What's Your Opinion?

findi

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