Tiki Was Attacked Today

Teddscau

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I feel absolutely awful. My sweet little cripple was attacked by one of my other birds this evening. When I went downstairs to show off my aviary to some of our guests, I saw Tiki walking strangely. Well, he usually looks like he has rickets when he walks, but his legs looked even more useless than usual. For those of you who don't know, I adopted Tiki and Ria from the Humane Society in March of 2016, but they were at death's door when I brought them home due to severe neglect. Ria died due to complications from atrophied muscles in January, and I can't bear to lose Tiki as well.

Right. So anyways, I rushed in as he was laying on the floor, trying to drag himself into his dog crate with his beak (he decided a few months ago that he was going to start living on the floor instead of perching; he really went downhill when we were forced to euthanize Ria after her accident). When I picked him up I noticed that his knees were covered in blood and they were all bruised and swollen, but luckily his injuries seemed superficial. I put him in his crate and closed the door behind him so nobody else could get in, and I had Noah and Rosie step up for me and I put them in their cage (I'd let them into the aviary around 5 to socialize and forage). I guess sometime between 5 and 7pm one of the my birds decided to attack him.

I grabbed Tiki's waxworms from the fridge and tossed some in the crate with him to try to get him to forget about the attack. But he started shaking and got this distant look in his eye, as though he was going into shock. And then he started crying out and stretching his neck upwards the same way Ria did when she was dying. He normally enjoys living in the aviary with all the noisy budgies, but he was so traumatized by what had happened that I had to carry him upstairs in his crate before he got any worse.

I feel so guilty. It's my fault he got hurt. I don't blame whoever it was that bit him, since I knew he's completely defenceless, yet I put him in that situation.

Thankfully, he's doing a lot better. I've never "tamed" him, but the past month or so we've been getting closer because I've been playing "fetch" with him. Everyday he waddles out of the aviary and into the sitting area, and I'll throw larvae in different places for him to grab in order to exercise his weak little legs. The past couple of weeks I've actually been having him take the bugs from my hand, and as such he trusts me a lot now.

If it weren't for our special "bug time" we've been having lately, I don't know if I could have got him to calm down enough to stop him from slipping into shock. The little guy's going to be sleeping in his crate tonight in my room, and from now on I'm going to try to include him in family activities.

He's breathing a bit heavily right now, but the x-rays from his most recent appointment did show that his lungs and air sacs are filled with scar tissue as a result of a chronic infection that hadn't been treated until he was placed under my care. Dr. Yee says he probably has a granuloma somewhere, and that's why he's still so sick despite putting him on a variety of antibiotics, anti-fungals, and antiparasitics. I can't stress enough just how close to death he and Ria were when I brought them home. They would've been dead within weeks if I hadn't adopted them.

So, yeah. I just wanted to share what happened today with you guys. I'm probably going to put him on a course of Baytril again tomorrow to make sure his bacterial infection doesn't flare up again from all the stress. If it's nice out tomorrow, I might take him outside in his crate to get some fresh air.
 
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Teddscau

Teddscau

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Aww, thanks Flboy :). I'm actually starting to wonder if someone even hurt him. Normally when the birds maim each other (I can count on one hand how many times this has happened over my nearly two decades of living with birds), there's bits of skin sticking out at the site of injury, and you can tell it was gnawed on. However, from what I could tell with Tiki was that, sure, his knees were bloodied up, but there weren't any of the "tufts" of skin sticking out that you'd normally associate with a bite. So it's possible he could've gotten into some sort of accident. Plus, birds almost always go for the feet.

There was that one incident last year when he pinched his nail on something and proceeded to plaster the aviary with blood. The poor guy's a bleeder and bruises very easily. When he had blood taken at the vet the one time, Dr. Yee came back and told me that the technician was very gentle with him and that the needle went in smoothly, yet he bruised quite badly. We checked his liver values, but they were fine. Strange, eh? I find that a lot of yellow budgies have bleeding issues (my yellows often have blood stains on their wings) and that they're prone to bruising. Wonder if it's like that with some yellow colour mutation kākāriki?

Oh, right, so I think he slept well in my room last night. He got up around 8:30 this morning and was flapping around, so I took him back downstairs to the aviary to get a drink and see the budgies. He seemed to be in a good mood as well.
 
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Teddscau

Teddscau

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Aww, he's just so cute! He had a bad evening yesterday. Rosie grabbed him by the leg (she's not allowed near him ever again), then Rumi started stealing bugs out of his mouth, then Ju sexually assaulted him >_<. All of this took place I a 15 minute period! Aww, you should have heard him screaming for help when Ju pinned him down :(. The poor baby. I'm looking to buy him a rabbit hutch or chicken coop to put in the aviary so the others can't pick on him. I'll probably have to end up making my own, unfortunately.

Oh, I decided to examine him again today. He definitely didn't like that, hence all the puncture wounds on my fingers. Anyways, his upper left leg is all bruised, he has skin missing from his lower right leg, and he had a piece of bloody wood shaving sticking out of his cloaca. Poor little cripple.
 
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Jen5200

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Aw, poor little guy!
 
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Teddscau

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Actually, we now think his original injury might have been (accidentally) self-inflicted. Oh, and guess what? Dr. Yee no longer works at Bowmanville, so I have to find a new vet for my kids! Do you guys have any idea how hard it is to find a CAV that takes small birds seriously? Legit, I've seen five different exotic vets, and only two of them were of any use. The other three were absolutely incompetent. Seriously, two of them basically told me that budgies can't have x-rays done because they'll die from heart attacks. I swear, I've had...four?... of my birds x-rayed (and these birds were seriously ill) and not one of them died of a heart attack. All of these birds were conscious for their x-rays as well. The vet actually taped them down by their wings for their x-rays. They'd only going to have a heart attack if they have heart problems, and even then it's unlikely. My guys are housed in large enclosures, so their hearts should be far healthier than the average human's.

Oh, and that stupid vet that killed Charlie! I wanted him to have the fluid from his abdomen analyzed and have x-rays done, but the vet told me that he'd probably have a heart attack and would die if we did the x-ray (I knew he wouldn't have a heart attack from it but she made me feel stupid). Then she told me that it would be a waste of money to have his abdominal fluids analyzed as he was an old bird and was probably "just" dying. I'm such an idiot. I let her prescribe Metacam, and by the time I figured out what was wrong (holy fudge, how did two avian vets not pick up on ascites aka "water belly" as being a symptom of heart disease in birds!?), it was too late. I'd poisoned him for over a month with the medication, which, I only found out after he was dead, greatly increases the risk of heart failure in individuals with heart disease. I held him for almost two hours as he coughed up bile on me, struggling to breathe as his heart shut down. I mean, death is always hard, but he was terrified and wasn't ready to die. He was in so much pain.

I don't want a new vet. I want Dr. Yee :(. She was the only one who treated my birds like the tough amazing creatures they are. She didn't see them as the inbred $15 cripples everyone else does—she saw them as the precious, unique (crippled) individuals they are. Man, my birds are SO defective. Love them so much. They're just like me. I got all the garbage genes from my parents.
 
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Teddscau

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Well, I gave him a bath earlier and he nearly died. He hadn't bathed for over three months (he quit bathing shortly after Ria's death), so I got him a dish of lukewarm water, held him in it, and poured water over his back with my hand. I think he sort of enjoyed it. However, I realized almost immediately that he wouldn't be able to dry himself or stay warm. Birds normally ruffle their feathers, shiver, flap around, etc., after bathing, but he can't do that.

So I cranked out the heater, scooped him up in my hands, and held him in front of it (I made sure I didn't hold him too close since I didn't want to burn him). I held him for well over half an hour, gently petting him and nudging him to make sure he didn't fall asleep. He eventually gave in and seemed to kind of enjoy being held.

Man, he's just so skinny. I was carefully examining him while he dried off, and I noticed his pelvic bone seemed kind of weird. One side is higher than the other, so I guess he dislocated or fractured his hip/pelvis at some point. The lower part of his sternum seems a bit...curvy? Poor guy's really crippled. His right foot is quite swollen, so I'm going to start giving him Baytril tomorrow. I guess it got infected after his injury? Either that, or its swollen due to fluid retention or something. His leg looks kind of gross. I can almost see his tendon. Fudge, I hope his tendon isn't poking through. I don't think it is. I mean, if it was, he should've bled out. His blood doesn't clot, so he definitely would've bled out.

Right, so he was almost dry, so I decided to see if I could unclog his nostril (he has issues with discharge because his lungs are filled with scar tissue and infection), but he did NOT like that. He got upset with me and refused to cooperate any further, so I locked him in his crate and directed the heater at him.

A few minutes later when I check on him, he's on his side, foot in the air, having a coughing/sneezing fit. Yeah, so that freaked me out. He kept coughing/sneezing for at least 10 minutes, and then he started having trouble breathing. He was barely holding his head up, and his breathing... So for the third time today I started crying my eyes out, sure he was about to die.

So I picked him up, tried cleaning his nostril (I was unable to remove the crud), but then he started chomping on me (I was really excited when he started defending himself), so I put him back in his crate. And then he closed his eyes and quit moving. After almost an hour of him laying in his crate, he suddenly stood up, opened his eyes wide, and started waddling around. As soon as I opened the crate door he scurried out and started munching on chop and sunflower seeds.

He's full of energy again (well, as full of energy as a chronically ill, severely crippled, bird with COPD can be), and he's looking a lot cleaner and fluffier. I'm...I'm not going to bathe him again for quite a while. I should probably buy a brooder to put him in after baths...
 

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Tiki, you little stinker, get better and STAY THAT WAY.
I'm a fan, you little 'riki, you!
 
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Teddscau

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Hah! He's such a cutie! I should take some pictures sometime and post them. Oh, fudge, I actually have a video of Rumi stealing bugs right out of his mouth. I should upload it to YouTube then post it.

I've been spending $100 a month on bugs for him, eh? Oh, and I just ordered him some artificial turf, so hopefully that helps. Seriously, with every step his right hip almost pops out of the socket. He can't get any traction, and since he's quit perching, he's been really damaging his joints by walking on the floor.

Oh, today while he was walking around on the mat outside the aviary, his nails got caught, so I had to grab him and unhook him. Well, he didn't like that, and he ended up getting me good in two places on my finger. I never react well to his filthy little mouth, so the bites are bothering me. I don't know what germs he has swimming around in his saliva, but they sure make me itchy! I didn't even realize he broke the skin until a few minutes later when I noticed blood welling up.

Man, I know I already said this, but the little chicken looks really good since his bath. Hmm, I think I should trim his tail feathers tomorrow. Seriously, it looks like he has a little parrotlet tail, if parrotlet tails were stained from sitting in poop.

I'll have to tell Tiki that you're rooting for him ;). Despite all the pain he's suffered, he's still such a happy, curious, sweet boy. I'm actually getting in touch with different breeders to see if I can buy him a friend or two. I think having same-species friends would encourage him to be more active.

Oh, and when did you become a mod? Congrats!

Oh, and I'm going to have to put my foot down with him. From now on—I don't care if he uses his puppy dog eyes—he's only allowed 15 black soldier fly larvae, 10 waxworms, and ONE butterworm per day. That's IT. And he's only allowed a couple dozen sunflower seeds everyday, as well. I've barely had him a year and I think I've already spent $5,000 on him (and Ria) >_<. Hey, you know that show where they spend obscene amounts of money looking for Black Beard's treasure in the "Money Pit"? Well, Tiki's my money pit, and all I expect to mine in return is poop, anxiety, tears, and a whole lotta love. Hmm, well, you might not be able to buy happiness, but you can buy love.
 
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Terry57

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Oh, and I'm going to have to put my foot down with him. From now on—I don't care if he uses his puppy dog eyes—he's only allowed 15 black soldier fly larvae, 10 waxworms, and ONE butterworm per day. That's IT. And he's only allowed a couple dozen sunflower seeds everyday, as well.

First, I'm so sorry that Tiki is having these issues:(
I was wondering what his complete diet is? That seems like a lot of insects for him each day. I know someone here who has multiple pairs, and they feed some mealworms, in addition to fresh veggies & fruit & a quality seed mix (with very little sunflower seeds) and pellets.
 
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Teddscau

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Well, my birds' diets vary from month to month. Because I'm lazy. Well, mainly based on food availability and their changing tastes. Anyways, at the moment I'm feeding him the aforementioned insects, sunflower seeds, grass, millet, Goldn'obles III, TOPs, Tropican (I don't think he's eating this), and chop made out of broccoli, carrot, cauliflower, lettuce, apple, clover, dandelion, greater plantain, chickweed, oats, buckwheat, various seeds (broccoli, mustard, clover, etc.), and nuts.

I was worried he might not be getting enough calcium, but then I remembered he was eating a ton of bugs which are high in calcium. The reason I feed him so many high-fat foods is because he's so underweight.
 

GaleriaGila

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Teddscau... I enjoy your posts and your pictures, and I've often said so. But may I offer some concerns? I wish you would consider a more uniform diet. Bugs worry me... I dont know what some of those bugs you mentioned are. Some bugs are dirty little guys, especially if not commercilly/carefully raised. High fat for weight gain? My avian vet discourages that... it's more likely to cause liver/heart problems than it is to add healthy weight. I forget: do you have a certified avian veterinarian? If not, can you get one? I'd love to know that you have expert guidance "in the wings". You have shared some heartbreaking experiences... I don't want you to have any more!

EDIT
I see you do have a vet... Dr. Yee.
Would you consider a second opinion?
I'm guessing you have discussed all these issues with her...
 
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Terry57

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I found with both Dactyl (our Bearded Barbet) and Suka (Laughing Thrush), it took awhile to find a balance. If either of them got too many worms, they were full and didn't eat the healthy food they needed. We finally got it down to where they can eat what they enjoy, but still eat everything they require to be in good health.
 

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As a long-time Bearded Dragon owner (and other reptiles), I have to say that the bugs you are feeding your bird are NOT GOOD for a parrot, as both Waxworms and Butterworms are extremely high in fat!!! Now as bad as that is for a reptile, it's a million times worse for a bird...and then combine that with the large amounts of sunflower seeds and your birds are going to end up with Fatty Liver Disease very quickly...The BSFL worms aren't as bad as the Waxworms or the Butterworms, but still not adequate for a parrot at all...Why are you feeding so many soft-bodied, fatty worms to your birds? Is there a particular reason?

I too have to recommend that you start feeding your birds a much more regular diet that is actually tailored to a parrot, rather than just being a mish-mash of "anything that's around"...Forgive me, and I mean this in the kindest way possible, but "Because you're LAZY" is not at all a good answer as to why you don't feed your birds a proper diet.
 
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Teddscau

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The reason I feed him so many high-fat foods is because he's underweight. All of his bones stick out and his keel is sharp. He was only 40g when I adopted him a year ago. He's put on some weight, but... Hmm, maybe he's still skinny because he has zero muscles. Guess we'll have to focus on building muscles.

I only feed him bugs in the afternoon/evening as a sort of high-fat, high-protein supper. During the day he's supposed to eat his pellets and veggies.

Oh, I do try to provide everyone with a balanced diet. I was feeding them chop (broccoli, carrot, squash, celery, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, apple, mixed greens, wheat, oats, barley, buckwheat, lentils, mungbeans, mustard seeds, sesame seeds, pine nuts, pecans, macadamia, sunflower, pumpkin seed, and millet), sprouts, birdie bread, mash, but then Samantha started having digestive troubles so I quit giving it. Now that she's gone I've started making it again.

Oh, and the worms are for Tiki, not the others. Same goes for the sunflower seeds. Guess I'll convince him to start eating more veggies.

I guess I could get a second opinion. Although the other vets I've seen say that all my birds should be on a 95% diet of Harrison's. Budgies, parrotlet, lovebird, kākāriki—everyone.
 

EllenD

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The reason I feed him so many high-fat foods is because he's underweight. All of his bones stick out and his keel is sharp. He was only 40g when I adopted him a year ago. He's put on some weight, but... Hmm, maybe he's still skinny because he has zero muscles. Guess we'll have to focus on building muscles.

I only feed him bugs in the afternoon/evening as a sort of high-fat, high-protein supper. During the day he's supposed to eat his pellets and veggies.

Oh, I do try to provide everyone with a balanced diet. I was feeding them chop (broccoli, carrot, squash, celery, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, apple, mixed greens, wheat, oats, barley, buckwheat, lentils, mungbeans, mustard seeds, sesame seeds, pine nuts, pecans, macadamia, sunflower, pumpkin seed, and millet), sprouts, birdie bread, mash, but then Samantha started having digestive troubles so I quit giving it. Now that she's gone I've started making it again.

Oh, and the worms are for Tiki, not the others. Same goes for the sunflower seeds. Guess I'll convince him to start eating more veggies.

I guess I could get a second opinion. Although the other vets I've seen say that all my birds should be on a 95% diet of Harrison's. Budgies, parrotlet, lovebird, kākāriki–everyone.


I understand wanting him to gain weight in that situation, but you don't want to do that by giving him a ton of fatty foods like you are, that's extremely dangerous to do to a bird due to their livers and their tendency to accumulate fat quickly in their liver tissue. If you want your bird to gain weight, you should firstly do it slowly, over time, and not try to do it quickly by feeding very fatty food on a daily basis...And instead of feeding him foods that are so extremely high in fat, you should feed him simply a much-varied diet consisting of a fortified, enriched pellet and a varied, high-quality seed-mix as the staples to his diet, along with a lot of different fresh veggies, including some different squash and other "meaty" fresh veggies. And then add a small portion of fresh fruit once a day (fresh fruit sparingly, as it is full of sugar)...

The healthy way to get an undernourished parrot to gain weight is to do it this way, over a long period of time...If he came to you very underweight, then he either was fed a diet that was very low in calories and general nutrition, or he wasn't fed enough food, which is usually what the cause of this is in parrots. So simply feeding him a healthy, varied diet throughout the day, each and every day, that consists of simply pellets, a healthy seed mix with a moderate amount of fatty seeds in it, such as sunflower seeds and millet seeds, fresh veggies, and fresh fruits, and feed these things throughout the day at different times and in quantities that sustain him, and then also supplement treats throughout the day that are healthy, such as a whole nut or two...This healthy diet by-default will naturally and progressively not only get his weight up to where it should be, but it will also help to improve his overall health and well-being, WITHOUT causing additional health issues, namely Fatty Liver Disease.

What you have to keep-in-mind is that if he came to you underweight, his weight is only one issue that his prior diet caused to his health. He was not only undernourished, but also most-likely malnourished. So the diet that you feed him must not only serve to "put weight on him", which is what the diet you are feeding him now is doing, but it must also serve to give him adequate nutrition on a daily basis to rectify the damage already done by his prior diet. Health issues like a lack of muscle-mass are not going to be helped by feeding him a ton of fat...nor is a low bone-density, unhealthy feathers and/or skin, kidney health, liver health, gastrointestinal health, etc. In fact, it's only going to serve to continue to make him unhealthy...So what you'll end-up with is a bird that is no-longer underweight, but is very unhealthy and suffering from malnutrition, rather than being undernourished.

I'm not trying to scold you or criticize you at all, but rather educate you. I totally understand bringing a very underweight bird into your home, and the first thing you want to do is "fatten him up", that's a very common reaction, and we automatically think that this is something that we want to get done quickly, and that means giving them high fat, high sugar, high calorie foods. but that's just not good for parrots at all, for a number of reasons, but most importantly because of the damage that putting weight on them quickly can do to their kidneys/renal system, and because of their extreme propensity to develop Fatty Liver Disease (which your bird may very well already be suffering from due to his diet at his prior home, or at least have the start of)...Fatty Liver Disease is the number one cause of parrots dying at a young age, other than accidents in the home....
 
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Thanks :). The problem is, when Ria died, he became very difficult to feed. The only thing he'd eat reliably were millet, sunflower seeds, bugs, and nuts. He quit eating pellets, most seeds, most veggies, no fruit, no flowers... I'd check his dishes and clothespins everyday, but he'd only have eaten maybe half, if not a third, of what he normally would. Heck, sometimes he'd eat maybe just three sunflower seeds' worth of food. I got really worried, so from that point on I just fed him whatever I could get him to. Ever since I just kind of kept doing it that way.

I'm soaking some grains and pulses right now to sprout for him, and I've brought down a few different "whole" (i.e., unchopped) veggies for him to try. I'm going to slowly cut back on his fatty foods to encourage him to eat more healthy foods.

I guess I'll have to go to the store to pick up some more veggies. I'll have to start cooking more curries and whatnot so we can finish what he doesn't eat.
 
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No, no, no! I examined his leg yet again, and his leg... I'm bringing him to the vet ASAP. I don't know what happened to his "calf" muscle, but it's disappeared. Like, you know the show "House"? Like, his leg looks like House's leg. Fudge. It wasn't like that when I found him injured last week. But, the skin isn't black...
 
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My gosh, now they're vomiting! A few years back, I could feed them basically anything without them vomiting... Is it because I feed them pellets now? Is the moisture from their veggies and sprouts interacting with the pellets in their crop, causing them to expand and be expelled forcefully? My gosh, I've treated them with ACV, Baytril, antiparasitics, dandelion root extract, herbal stomach formula, I gave several of them meds for AGY... The only reliable "cure" is feeding them a strict diet of pellets and millet. Freaking must be the pellets.

You're probably thinking, but Robyn, my birds have eaten pellets for over 30 years! Let me ask you this: do your birds dunk their pellets in their water? Well, none of my birds are capable of pre-soaking their pellets. Have you ever seen a budgie use their foot to hold food? How about a kākāriki with gimpy legs?
 

EllenD

New member
Aug 20, 2016
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State College, PA
Parrots
Senegal Parrot named "Kane"; Yellow-Sided Green Cheek Conure named "Bowie"; Blue Quaker Parrot named "Lita Ford"; Cockatiel named "Duff"; 8 American/English Budgie Hybrids; Ringneck Dove named "Dylan"
Did you take the one with the leg issue to his CAV yet? I'd advise you get all of them to a CAV asap, as something is going on here that is very wrong...the leg thing is obviously alarming...
 

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