Emergency of the home variety- potential dangers to look out for?

Kiwibird

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...annnnddd the universe gave yet another big middle finger to us yesterday:( This time, our dishwasher was apparently leaking unbeknownst to us (we don't use it really and never saw any puddles in the kitchen) and caused damage to both the condo below us and our kitchen. They (the property management company who owns and rents out the unit below us) ripped a roughly 2x5' hole in the wall between the living room and kitchen out yesterday to locate the leak and this wall is right next to Kiwi's cage and when they found the source, also ripped out the dishwasher as well because there was water under it (yes, with my permission as we had to find/stop/clean up the leak ASAP).

Now, we did move Kiwi over to the opposite side of the living room (as far away from the wall as possible) and set up an air purifier right next to him. We also have fans blowing the wet area, but are waiting to speak to our insurance company this morning as it was past their regular office hours by the time I had a chance to call yesterday before proceeding further. To my untrained eye, I don't see any obvious mold growing in the now open wall area as the leak seems to have been fairly recent. I've cleaned up the drywall removed yesterday and see no further immediate hazard to Kiwi being in the living room away from the wall? However, beyond repairing and repainting the saturated drywall, we also need a new floor in our kitchen. The idiots who renovated this place before we bought it put laminate flooring in the kitchen, which is of course now severely warped under the dishwasher and slightly warped elsewhere near the dishwasher where the water seeped under. We may also need to replace the carpet in the living room. If that turns out to be the case, we'll have some kind of economical hard floors (maybe tile?) installed and then if the insurance allows, pay out of pocket to replace the undamaged flooring in our entryway and bathroom (also both laminate) and then have all hard floors except the bedroom and loft. But we may also have insurance say they'll only pay for more carpet and well... that's going to smell terribly. I'm going to struggle with that too as I'm extremely sensitive to chemicals/chemical odors. My fingers are still crossed though that only the kitchen floor has to go and can just be replaced with some nice non-stinky ceramic tile.

Naturally, some of this work is going to pose a risk for Kiwi. We have no good options to move him elsewhere either. We really are pitiful people who haven't really made friends up here and have no family, so literally no one who could take him for a few days and without an all clear yet from his AV (he's still on meds for the kidney infection, though it appears to be under control) he probably can't be boarded right now either. My husband works from home, so I can't put him in the office where the door can be closed during the day and our loft (which we use as our bedroom) is open walls and sits directly above the living room/where the repairs would be. I could put him outside in the mornings/early afternoon, but once the sun starts hitting this side of the building around 2-3pm, it gets HOT, much too hot for a little bird out there. I suppose we could spend a night or 2 in a hotel on our dime, we can't afford weeks in a hotel for odors to dissipate, and I'm sure insurance won't pay for hotels because our bird is sensitive. Please help me figure out what to do here to keep our little buddy safe in this situation.
 
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SailBoat

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So sorry to hear of the water leak!
If the leak was recent, it is very possible that it did not have enough time to develop mold. Request that your Insurance Company check as it is a common line item for water damage claims.

If your Insurance Agent is close by, visit them at the office to get a face to face regarding exactly what your policy covers and what is doesn't.

Where to place Kiwi is fairly straight forward and that is Hubby's office. On the deck during the Morning hours and in the Office in the heat of the afternoon.

As with paint, most all products are much safer than just a few years ago. This with your request to use 'Baby Safe' products will keep them thinking safer stuff. If you say Bird, it will not have the same effect.

Check the square size of the title and report that as you are taking about what has happened. Some older title is just plain dangerous and it is a very specific size, and the claim adjust will know with little more than the square size of the tile.

Your Policy type and what it includes is the Key at this point. Visit in person, always helps.

Sorry this has happened to you!
 
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Scott

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Sorry to hear of this event, April. These sort of issues can take a lot of time to rectify and untold inconvenience, especially financial. Even the best of insurance policies/companies never truly make you "whole."

I would absolutely endorse the use of as much ceramic tile as feasible. Clean, long lived, and the setting process seems safe. Tiled my entire house a few years ago and found the process smooth. Birds sequestered for just one day post installation. No doubt OR has strict rules similar or more stringent than CA. What Sailboat suggested is the most equitable solution short of motel rental for a night or two.
 

EllenD

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I second the ceramic-tile option. They are safe, easy to clean, and easy to put down (I actually tiled my entire finished basement in ceramic tile after I had a pipe freeze, explode, and destroy my carpeting and linoleum down there...The only thing that was a pain was the grouting, but I leaned as I went about using the spacers, cutting the tile, etc.)...So if I can do it and just learned-as-I-went, lol (scary stuff), then a professional will get it done quickly and safely, there's very little fumage (made that word up), and it's soooo much easier to keep clean and to clean-up than carpeting...And I also choose it over wood (or laminate wood, I hate that stuff), as you don't have to worry about ceramic tile getting wet...My house had laminate wood in the dining room when I moved in, and my dogs managed to spill water on it, and over the first 2-3 years of living here the laminate actually warped and got so bad you couldn't even walk on it in your bare-feet because it was so warped and sticking-up...my mom was horrified by it, it was really bad looking...so I just one day decided to rip it up (very small dining room, so it wasn't that big a project actually)...After I ripped it up I checked the sub-floor for levelness, it was level, and it needed absolutely no prep underneath, so I just went out, bought enough tile to cover the area, and again, right down the tiles went...Grouted them, put the baseboards back down around the room, and then put the ceramic transitions down into the carpeted living room and the differently tiled kitchen...done. No worries about spills, the dogs toenails wrecking the wood, no stains on the carpets, etc...I think I'm actually going to do the rest of my downstairs all in ceramic tile, and only have carpeting in my master bedroom, and even do it upstairs in my office and the bird's play-room...With pets, carpeting is just not good. And wood is tough as well if you have doggy nails, birdy-nails, Beardie-nails, etc...
 
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Kiwibird

Kiwibird

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Thanks everyone.

Fortunately, it seems our insurance will be covering the damages, so very grateful for that. Also grateful that the living room carpet seems not to have been damaged, as that would make this an even longer and more difficult process if we had to literally re-floor our entire living/dining/kitchen. As it is going through insurance, I'm sure repairs won't exactly be done...quickly. The first company will be coming out Monday to check the extent of the water damage and if further drying needs to be done. Fortunately, our kitchen is still usable for the time being and as our last place (a rented basement) had no kitchen, we have a countertop oven and induction burners to make a makeshift kitchen should ours become unusable for a few days. We will be requesting (and paying for out of pocket if necessary) low VOC paint for the wall repair. I'm guessing all drywall and spackle is probably about the same safety-wise correct? I can only hope insurance will either offer a selection of flooring to choose from or let us choose a material in a comparable price range to what's already down there, as I know for a fact there are plenty of decent ceramic tile options that are really cheap. I hope they don't just make us replace it with more fake wood.

We have discussed and decided that if something doesn't pass the smell test and is just overwhelmingly stinky we'll look into doing a hotel but after doing some research into this kind of damage, it seems keeping Kiwi out of the house durning the day and in the office at night should be sufficient for the types of materials I expect will need to be utilized in the repairs. Still though....ugh!
 
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Scott

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Thanks everyone.

Fortunately, it seems our insurance will be covering the damages, so very grateful for that. Also grateful that the living room carpet seems not to have been damaged, as that would make this an even longer and more difficult process if we had to literally re-floor our entire living/dining/kitchen. As it is going through insurance, I'm sure repairs won't exactly be done...quickly. The first company will be coming out Monday to check the extent of the water damage and if further drying needs to be done. Fortunately, our kitchen is still usable for the time being and as our last place (a rented basement) had no kitchen, we have a countertop oven and induction burners to make a makeshift kitchen should ours become unusable for a few days. We will be requesting (and paying for out of pocket if necessary) low VOC paint for the wall repair. I'm guessing all drywall and spackle is probably about the same safety-wise correct? I can only hope insurance will either offer a selection of flooring to choose from or let us choose a material in a comparable price range to what's already down there, as I know for a fact there are plenty of decent ceramic tile options that are really cheap. I hope they don't just make us replace it with more fake wood.

We have discussed and decided that if something doesn't pass the smell test and is just overwhelmingly stinky we'll look into doing a hotel but after doing some research into this kind of damage, it seems keeping Kiwi out of the house durning the day and in the office at night should be sufficient for the types of materials I expect will need to be utilized in the repairs. Still though....ugh!

My experience with insurance companies replacing flooring on two occasions (both water damage, different properties) is cost is their sole concern. In both cases I chose to upgrade the flooring paying the differential out-of-pocket. First time, I found some really nice tile for a lower price than carpet; the caveat being tile installation is more costly.
 

Scott

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Another point, April, concerns the industry foible known as "betterment." You seem satisfied with their payout, so this may or may not be a factor. Essentially, replacing older flooring with new represents the "gift" of betterment. Insurance companies prefer to pay a depreciated sum rather than see your floors "bettered."

This can be negotiated.... small story. During the early 1980s my dreaded Audi suffered a breakdown requiring a tow by AAA. Thankfully, the receiving shop noted the poor practice of the front drive wheels contacting the ground (towed by the tail) with transmission in "D." Next day I retrieved the vehicle and immediately noted a grinding sound from the transmission. Returned to the shop and received written documentation of the trashed unit. Long story short, the tranny was rebuilt and the insurer sought to deduct several hundred $ from the claim. While the vehicle had 75K miles, the transmission was one of the few systems that performed flawlessly. They claimed "betterment" so I fought and won. Had they installed a brand new tranny, I might have acquiesced.
 

LordTriggs

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I've sort of skimmed through but it might be worth saying you are sensitive to chemicals and such with potential health risk to you along with Kiwi's own sensitivity. Insurers don't exactly want to see a pet harmed but they certainly don't want their clients harmed by their actions!
 

SailBoat

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"I'm guessing all drywall and spackle is probably about the same safety-wise correct"

That is correct. Remember, that the 'sanding' of them will create a powder that will seep everywhere and that fine powder wants to be avoided. Cover the floor and wall vents during that stage and that will greatly limit spreading it near everywhere. If you have a forced air H/C system, shut it off during the work.
 
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Kiwibird

Kiwibird

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And the news gets better!

The water damage remediation company came out today and what feels dry is not. Our entire kitchen may end up gutted by the sounds of it. The cabinets are wet, a much larger part of the wall oh and while the carpet itself is dry, under the carpet is very much wet... So the disgusting carpet had moisture readings that make it salvageable (and you can bet insurance will want it salvaged), but will have to be ripped out and then put back to dry underneath it. No joke. But that's not the bad part. Apparently, they found some old linoleum flooring under the laminate and they have to test it because the glues they used to use can contain asbestos! The drywall may also contain asbestos, as apparently unscrupulous contractors were still installing old stock long after it became illegal. If we end up with some kind of asbestos remediation issue, then what do we do with Kiwi?! It isn't super likely, as the complex was built in the late 80's and remodeled in 2007, but is possible.
 
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Scott

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My kitchen leak required the removal of fixtures from one wall and the placement of a protective sheet plastic barrier. Several drying machines operated for a few days to remove all moisture, preventing the formation of dreaded mold.

April, there is a special place in hell for insurers who "dry" and reinstall carpet. My first water incident about 15 years ago caused damp carpet, and they did *not* measure content. Adjuster immediately wrote it off but did mention it would not be junked but rather dried and shipped to a foreign country. I would have aggressively fought remediation!

If they "gut" your kitchen, much will depend on the replacement clause of your policy. They may have originally assessed (or had you describe) the general age and quality of cabinetry, and settle accordingly. If seriously damp, doubtful they can be saved.

The most critical issue is, of course, asbestos. You may have been fairly "safe" with the tainted products "entombed" but renovating might unleash a terrible situation. You'll want to carefully vet the professionals tasked with abating asbestos. Of course, you, Joe, and Kiwi must be safe; might be able to invoke the need for temporary housing during asbestos removal. Hopefully, this is all moot and none will be found!
 
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Kiwibird

Kiwibird

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A special place in hell indeed! I can't believe they're trying to reinstall carpet either. Especially as I'm like 1000% sure this is the cheapest carpet they could have possibly used in the first place and it's old. I mean I guess I get attempting to salvage the living room portion as objectively it's in 'acceptable' condition, but the stuff in the dining room is gross and a terrible material to be in the dining room. Seems counterproductive to tear it out and put it back. We are in fact going to probably pay out of pocket to at least extend the new flooring into the dining area and only have the living room carpet put back. Still though, we realized that'll leave our entryway and bathroom still the fake wood laminate flooring which will no longer match the kitchen and dining room flooring and resale wise, in this small of a unit, that is going to look tacky. We're going to basically be forced to replace the entry/bathroom flooring soon if not 'right now' so we can get a matching material. This is truly turning into a far bigger nightmare than originally imagined:(

I can't even think about if they find asbestos in the drywall or old floor glue. I'm just hoping they don't.
 

Scott

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I would definitely appeal the use of old carpet. Do you or Joe have documented allergies or similar issue? If so, a doctor note might help sway the insurer. We all know none of this is good for Kiwi, but sadly they view companion animals as "personal property." :mad:
 

dhraiden

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Ugh, insurance. My folks grew up in a third world jungle country in South America (Guyana) and we've definitely got different views when it comes to things like this...my folks never carried home insurance in all the years they've lived in their place, and I didn't in my home for about 3 years until being cajoled by my SO, the thinking process being, if anything happens, it would be nice to have the thousands of dollars in premiums we so nicely threw away all those years...they are both very much DIY types who either fix things as best they can themselves or get friends who are in the business to do it as a sidejob. Of course insurance does (rarely) pay off when the damage is extreme and widespread and unsalvageable.


Even then, the first I checked with, State Farm, flatly refused because of, apparently, the curling of my roofing tiles (they've never come off...even during windstorms...) which exceeded some odd percentage they arbitrarily set (like, 9% of my tiles were somewhat curling, and they don't insure homes if the "curlage" exceeds 6% or whatever? wtf...haha).



Fortunately the insurance guy at the local SF office hooked me up with Hyundai Home Insurance, which is a thing, and having read the policy of what's covered all fine print included, I still feel like I'm throwing away ~1,300 a year just so my SO feels better.



Because I know if anything *knocks on wood* happens it's gonna be an uphill, pain-in-the-ass slog to get anything out of them anyway.


All that said, I'm quite glad your insurance company provided some satisfactory recourse. I have a practically brand-new, unused dishwasher the previous owners left for me that I've just never bothered with (I prefer hand-washing anyway). In changing out the stem washer for the adjacent leaking kitchen faucet, I learned the shut-off valves below were stuck-shut (I had to swap in the new washer with the water flowing out...FUN)...but fortunately my dishwasher intake pipe could be turned off, so I did.



This whole ordeal you've shared reminds me of how we should be glad for little "incidents" like that...cause you end up learning about and addressing something else that might've caused you more frustration down the line..
 
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Kiwibird

Kiwibird

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I did want to say, that thus far my insurance really has been pretty helpful and seem like they're on the ball about wanting to get this repaired ASAP (though it's just one of those processes thats massively inconvenient and can't be made to go faster). I may not particularly be in love with the concept of pulling up and putting back old carpet, but I understand them not wanting to pay to replace what truly doesn't have to be and to do that, they have to have some kind of standard to determine what can/cannot be saved. It's just a generally frustrating situation. I'm mad at the universe.
 
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Kiwibird

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I would definitely appeal the use of old carpet. Do you or Joe have documented allergies or similar issue? If so, a doctor note might help sway the insurer. We all know none of this is good for Kiwi, but sadly they view companion animals as "personal property." :mad:

Well, to be fair insurance may not want it reinstalled, that is just what the water remediation guy said they typically do when the carpet itself is dry but the floor underneath is wet. When he rips it up, we'll have to hang onto it so it can be put back down later. Whether insurance will really go through with that remains to be seen. However I wouldn't doubt they would since it would save a chunk of money to not have to replace a huge swath of flooring instead of a very tiny one. We're talking maybe 20-30 sq ft of kitchen floor (VERY tiny galley kitchen) VS 200+ sq ft of carpeted floor as it's all one big piece.

Unfortunately, while I have suffered allergies ever since we moved in, it's due to prior residents having cats and me being very allergic. But they've improved with time and extensive cleaning/air purifiers. Kiwi has had no respiratory issues here, save mild seasonal allergies he gets annually. Any allergies I have aren't related to this water incident and I would feel uncomfortable claiming they were. This leak was very recent. They recently (last few weeks) did extensive renovations (i.e. totally gutted) in the unit below us and low and behold, as soon as they stopped pounding around down there hard enough to vibrate the entire building, we had a slow leak problem that never existed before!
 
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Kentuckienne

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I have a little bit of experience here...one, when they say the carpet,is dry, you have to wonder what that means. If the substrate is wet, then the bottom of the carpet touching that floor is also wet. The carpet starts off dense and gets more voluminous at the top of the pile, where the surface area is greater so water evaporates faster. Moisture might be hard to measure accurately. The way to do it is to weigh a square of the suspect carpet and compare that to the weight of known dry carpet. Any difference is due to water. Also, I don’t like tile in the kitchen. It’s cold and hard underfoot, and if you drop a dish or glass it’s going to break. I prefer “luxury vinyl tile” in kitchens and bath, and you can get it on waterproof click-together types. Totally waterproof. Glue down vinyl tile (not PVC) is easier to replace if a single tile is damaged but click together is easier to install. What I do is haunt the big box hardware stores. For the last room we did, I got real prefinished oak hardwood flooring, the end of a lot - Lowe’s had marked it down at least 30 percent and let me buy the whole batch for half that discounted price. There are carpet places that sell room-size “remnants” so you might do better getting the insurance company to give you a check and buy it and have it installed. Have remodeled several houses and fought insurance companies, PM me if you wanna chat offline.
 
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Kiwibird

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I appreciate that offer of advice on how to fight insurance Kentuckienne, but will *fingers crossed* not have to take you up on it. As of right now, while I am incredibly frustrated at the situation for happening, my insurance company is responding and seems as though they will cover repairs as per my policy. Hoping I won't have to fight them or anyone else. The remediation company will have the asbestos tests back today and so long as those are clean, they'll be here to start demolition later (or asbestos abatement). I spoke with the boss lady at the water remediation company yesterday, and apparently it is state law to test every home for asbestos in the walls or old flooring before beginning demolition work. I feel better that it isn't something they saw in our home specifically that would lead them to believe there might be asbestos, rather something they must do for everyone. I'll be inquiring further about the carpet while the guys are here today and will discuss further with insurance if I'm not satisfied that it could indeed reasonably be considered salvageable. I don't want to come up on the situation, but I do want the proper repairs made and adequate remediation steps taken to prevent future problems with mold or whatever else water damage causes if not repaired properly. I have also taken the initiative to email my adjuster brief daily updates regarding who I called or who came over and what was discussed/done/timelines etc... I figure if something won't be covered or some other issue I'd rather it be caught right away rather than end up finding out down the line after we racked up a huge bill we're out of pocket for or something.

I'm insured through a major name insurer and have been my insurance company for car and home insurance since I was like 19 or 20, so I'm a long time customer who's only ever filed one claim about 8 or 9 years ago when I was rear ended and the guy took off. They fixed my car and sent random money for pain and suffering even though I told them I wasn't injured in the crash. Hoping they come through again this time. I'm not sure if they'll be cutting us a check or if they'll just have the contractor bill them directly for repairs yet. Pretty sure the water remediation company is just directly billing the insurer so I'm guessing the contractor will too, which is fine with me in this kind of scenario. They're sending a contractor who gets good reviews online and has specialized in water damage repair for over 20 years (according to their website) once the remediation work is finished. While I could probably do a lot of the repairs myself, being this was a water damage event and is apparently a lot more serious than it initially appeared, I want the repairs done right. Especially if they end up having to knock out cabinets and counters and really tear up the kitchen. Whether we choose to have the contractor replace some of the undamaged flooring or do that ourselves is another matter, but where the water messed up we'll probably have the water damage repair people fix that so we have recourse if it wasn't repaired properly. I spoke with him yesterday and he'll hopefully be able to come out next Monday or Tuesday to do estimates and get those to insurance so we may be able to start repairs as early as the end of next week/beginning of the week after. Fingers crossed this whole situation will be resolved within about 6 weeks of it happening (which to me seems like a realistic timeline for such a small kitchen, even if it has to be gutted).
 
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Kiwibird

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There is good news- no asbestos.

Unfortunately, the rest of it was 'worst case scenario'. My kitchen was effectively gutted yesterday. Drywall was 'flood cut'. The 2 cabinets next to the dishwasher had to be disposed of. The other 2 floor cabinets he had to pull to dry the floor, but they were potentially salvageable. They left the upper cabinets alone, but there's a chance if everything can't be matched, those will have to go too. I was looking at how the do cabinets so I *think* (or at least the logical solution to me) would be just replace the 2 completely ruined cabinets and repaint/put new doors on the rest to make them all match again, which would be acceptable to me. As long as they aren't obviously mismatched. Guy did manage to save the counters (which are a beautiful granite or else I wouldn't have asked him to even bother with the level of demo work needed) but the backsplash connecting the counter to the breakfast bar broke up beyond repair and if the granite can't be matched, they'll have to go too. Who knows, the contractor may just find it easier to put in all new counters regardless, but I figured we could at least try to save them as the granite matches our bathroom counters too. One little silver lining- the dining room carpet is gone. The stuff in the living room was rolled back to dry under as the moisture readings only went back a few inches in that area and the carpet itself didn't read wet (he did test the back too), but after some discussion, the really nasty part in the dining room was removed. Fair enough, I guess as the living room carpet is ok condition wise and the water line didn't go back very far. Surprisingly, we have concrete subfloors (our kitchen is on the 3rd floor of the building) with some kind of plaster like material on top. They had to 'tent' off the area and heat it to 120 degrees to dry out the subfloor. Really interesting process, but would be much more interesting if it wasn't my kitchen that got ripped up and tented off. Oh and due to living in a >1000 sq ft condo, having all the dining room furniture, kitchen misc. oven, fridge, salvageable cabinets/counters etc... squeezed into the non-tented off portion (and half the living room is tented too), we now live in something comparable to a hoarder house. It's awful! I don't get how people can live like this. Under 24 hours and I can already feel my stress and anxiety levels spiking up with piles of stuff everywhere. We also need to try to set up a makeshift kitchen. I know insurance will cover the increase in expenses to eat out, but with the level of damage we don't want to surpass our coverage limit and not have enough to fix the kitchen because we ate out during repairs. We're thinking we'll just rough it on meals that don't generate much dishes until repairs are done. We're healthy, living on energy bars and fruit for a few weeks won't kill us.

Sweet Kiwi was thrilled/fascinated to watch most of the demo (from the other side of the room). When the floors came up, then he went into the office because there was an odor. We got his patio cage set up in the office, as his big cage is...well...just too big to reasonably fit in there if the guest bed is also pulled out and we can still access our desks to work. Much to my shock he wouldn't go to sleep in the patio cage. He lived in an identical cage to his patio cage for some time when we first got him until we got him a bigger cage and never had sleep problems back then. After listening to him climbing around in it frantically for like 20 minutes after the covers went on, I put him in his pak-o-bird for the night and he crashed immediately. Not sure why he didn't want to sleep in the cage, it's not like he ever sleeps in the POB either and spends about equal time in both during the summer:confused:. Strange little creature. I'm going to try putting his cement perch in the cage tonight, as that is typically his preferred sleeping perch. If not, he can sleep in the POB at night until the living room is safe again, just seems a cage would be more comfortable but I'm not a bird so what do I know? All the blowers and dehumidifiers etc... sounds like a category 5 hurricane out there and since I find the noise intolerable, I also slept in the office with the green guy. My husband, inexplicably, still slept in the bedroom with all that noise and the stench of plastic sheet and vinyl (when they pulled off the old vinyl, it smelled of vinyl strongly). Can't tell a grown man what to do, but I'll be interested to find out in an hour or so if he actually got sleep up there last night lol. Uggggggghhhhh though. Why universe, WHY?!
 
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