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Old 12-01-2018, 09:14 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

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Your contributions to this thread have given me great insight into my relationship with my former CAG who I had from 7 w/o til almost 9 y/o. She was my first parrot and before her, I knew next to nothing about birds. She was force weaned. She was clipped before weaning was complete. She was always kept clipped. And she was weaned onto a sugary pellet (Zupreem fruit-blend). All this leads me to believe that she was set up for failure. Around her seventh year, she began plucking. By year eight, her chest feathers were plucked leaving only down feathers, and she became increasingly neurotic. It's hard to say if it was me who was influencing this behavior or if it was her inherent issues from the beginning of her life or a combination of both.

At the same time, my adopted Lovebird was always fully flighted and he was a MESS of a bird. Neurotic, plucking, self-mutilating, and would have night terrors regularly. He was put on Haldol by my CAV which helped, but now I wonder what kind of life he led before coming to me. None of that behavior stopped, but it greatly improved.

My next parrot will NOT be force weaned. He will not be clipped before fledging, if ever. And he will be weaned onto a much healthier pellet and fresh diet. If only I knew then what I know now, huh?
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:42 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

I very much want to see a translation!! I commend your forward thinking country!!! You don't think a copy exists already?
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Old 12-01-2018, 10:20 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

I was going to point that out too, as not just the Netherlands I don't believe, but most of Europe has put laws on pulling baby birds and hand-raising them at certain ages, or at all (I'm not up on their laws, but I know they are very strict about it)...There are no laws in the US regarding hand-raising/hand-feeding/pulling baby birds from their parents, so that's the reason why the US has so many issues...

****Honestly, in my opinion as a former breeder/hand-raiser, I think the problem in the US isn't that we are allowed to hand-raise/hand-feed baby birds, it's that people who have no experience doing either just decide to breed their birds, either for money or just because they want to hand-raise baby birds, they don't know what they are doing, and the end-up either killing them, or if they do live they end-up "Force-Weaning" them accidentally because they have no idea what the hell they are doing...It's not easy to hand-raise/hand-feed baby birds, contrary to what people think...They get it in their heads that it's like a dog having puppies or something, and so they remove the babies from the nest-box between 2-3 weeks (if they even get that right), and then they either aspirate them and kill them, or they cause them a horrible yeast infection and kill them, or they start "taking-away" feedings or "reducing" feeding amounts themselves instead of letting the bird Abundance-Wean themselves, and then you've got birds with horrible neurological issues who are "perpetual babies" for the rest of their lives...Its' not easy and people don't get that...

The other issue is the GREED of Americans, and due to that we have thousands of bird breeders who are totally willing to sell unweaned-babies to ANYONE, whether they know what they are doing or not, because they want rid of the babies to save money and time, and to make room for more babies to sell...It's ridiculous, even pet-shops are doing this all across the US, they breed parrots and sell them to anyone who walks into the pet shop when they are only 3-4 weeks old, give them a container of hand-feeding formula and an oral syringe, and then say "Here ya go. It's easy. Enjoy."...and that's it. Until there are laws in the US AT LEAST regarding the sale of unweaned baby birds by breeders and pet shops, this isn't going to get better but only progressively worse...
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:04 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

Ok I need to chime in here because the more I read the more scared I get. I was looking in to RB and found one on Oahu. I contacted the breeder, and purchased a 3 month old RB, whom we named Keoki. I was told he was 3 months and down to two feeding an am/pm. And said he had about two weeks to go. I have never purchased a bird without seeing them, but here is Hawaii it’s slim pickings, especially on Maui. As some of you know I had to rehome my parrotlet Kiwi because I was not allowed to bring her her. Two years later I know have Keoki. Here is the problem. I have weaned birds before, but it was along time ago and I was much younger then. I don’t know how he talked me into finishing weaning him and I didn’t think it would be this hard. I got myself all set up, but every since he got here he really didn’t want it. Not like a hungry baby seeking food. So I have been struggling for two weeks to feed this bird. He eats fine all day long, pellets, seeds, veggies, not much fruit. When I go to feed him at night, like tonight he actually flew away (twice), clearly he didn’t want it. He was the same this morning, he didn’t want it. I have been weighing him everyday tonight when I got home he was 110 grams. Here is my second problem, he is clipped. I didn’t know he was clipped, and didn’t think to ask because he wasn’t weaned. His breeder said that he will wean when he fledged, well how can he fledge if he is clipped. I did ask him. It just made no sense to me. Im wondering has he already learned to fly and then they clipped him. Speaking to the breeder is like talking to a wall, you get nowhere. I can’t even get a hatch date. So i have given up calling or txting him. So now I am concerned I think he is definately wanting to wean, but he can not fly. I don’t know what to do. He is going to the vet, I am looking forward to that.I don’t want force him to hand feed but I’m not sure if I will hurt him if I stop. His poop looks fine and his morning dump is also nice size. But I am still concerned that he is getting enough. I will never, ever do something like this again. Personally I thought all would be ok. I can do this. Can someone please talk to me. Thank you
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:17 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

I think you have been had...
(maybe it is not even a young bird and the 'breeder' has been lying to you about everything)
I saw the photoo you posted and he/she sure is a looker!

If the bird does not want any formula and is eating just fine.. let it be!

Just go with the "building a bond" like you would do with any parrot you just got in your life.
It looks like a beautifull, healthy bird (well in thet pict anyway), and it is reasonably tame, so that is a plus.
Just weight him/her once a day for a few weeks and do not offer formula, and if it does not change much at all- call it a day with the weaning: if the bird can eat just fine, happy everyone.

Enjoy your bird!
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:29 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
I think you have been had...
(maybe it is not even a young bird and the 'breeder' has been lying to you about everything)
I saw the photoo you posted and he/she sure is a looker!

If the bird does not want any formula and is eating just fine.. let it be!

Just go with the "building a bond" like you would do with any parrot you just got in your life.
It looks like a beautifull, healthy bird (well in thet pict anyway), and it is reasonably tame, so that is a plus.
Just weight him/her once a day for a few weeks and do not offer formula, and if it does not change much at all- call it a day with the weaning: if the bird can eat just fine, happy everyone.

Enjoy your bird!
Yeah I think so too.... I was just so excited about this little guy, I threw all caution to the wind and jumped without a parachute. I even fell for “he’ll bond easier if you finish weaning him” dumb me.

Keoki, He is a great lil guy. I sure hope he is healthy. The vet will determine that. I just got overwhelmed reading all this information. And the last thing I want to do is to hurt him. Tomorrow, I will weigh him, I will offer him his veggie mix, seeds and pellets, and see what happens. Thanks for your support.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 03:39 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

There always will be @ssh0les in this world,

the great thing about parrots: they love who they want to love, no matter how old or young they are and it sounds you me you are doing great together.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 04:20 AM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

yep, was gonna say it sounds like your little guy has decided he don't want momma food anymore and wants to eat other stuff. Just keep an eye on his weight to make sure it isn't going down and you should be fine
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2018, 12:19 PM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

Quote: Originally Posted by ChristaNL View Post
There always will be @ssh0les in this world,

the great thing about parrots: they love who they want to love, no matter how old or young they are and it sounds you me you are doing great together.
I thought that I asked all the right questions. This guy has been breeding for over 30 years. So I assumed he would be a wealth of information. Boy was I wrong....

Last night I took all food out of his cage when he went to bed. Except for some millet. When I came out of my bedroom he was already munching on his millet and had his morning dump. Which looked great. He climbed on me and off we went into the kitchen to make his food for the day. No handfeeding today. He is eating his regular food. I am keeping a close eye on his weight.
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Old 12-06-2018, 01:41 PM
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Re: Weaning babies and wing-clipping questions for the masses

Oh I'm sorry to hear this, it's becoming a very serious and wide-spread issue, even with long-time, "reputable" breeders. It's like it's actually becoming the "norm" for people to buy their parrots unweaned and having to hand-feed them when they have no idea what they are doing, and even if they do the breeders are just vanishing into thin-air and doing shady things...

I agree, I think you were had...If you can't even get the hatch-date from a 30-year breeder, then it's probably because he doesn't know the hatch-date, and your bird was most-likely weaned long ago and is much older than you were told...And actually in the end that would be the much better truth, because that would mean that he was probably allowed to fledge before he weaned, and then they clipped him. So you're actually much better-off if he is older than you were told in this situation...Cross your fingers...

I agree, never "force" any formula on him. As long as he's eating his pellets, seeds, veggies, etc. every day fine, and as long as you are weighing him every single day at the same time each day (first thing in the morning before he eats is best) and he's either maintaining his weight or gaining weight and he's not losing, then you're okay. I'd also let his wings fully grow-in and not clip them again at all until you make sure that he has no issues flying...Hopefully they at least did a responsible clip on him and it will only take a month or two for them to grow back in fully. Once you see that he can fly normally, with control and direction, then you can clip him again if you want to, but I would not clip him again until you're certain he has actually fledged...

I'm too am confused as to why the breeder told you that "he'll wean when he fledges", when he's seemingly already weaned and can't fledge because he's already clipped...That's suspect....almost like this breeder never even saw this bird and maybe got him from someone else? Hopefully it's not an issue and it works out...for both his sake and yours...

****Has he done any crying at nighttime for a "comfort feeding"? Most-all baby birds I've hand-raised have cried/begged for a nighttime "comfort-feeding" for up to a month after they are actually weaned...Might be a better gauge as to how old he is, since most RB2's fully-wean around 3 months or so...
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