Breaking Point, help please !

suyu

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Aug 4, 2020
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Hi,
This is Suyu with the 4month old CAG with a fractured femur just a few days ago. My previous post has talked about what happened with his leg and actually, things have took a turning point just a few hours ago prior to me writing this post because things at home has reached a point it shouldn't have but it did. I am really lost right now.

Before I get to the point, I need to give you some background on my family first so that you know how things have arrived to the stage it has.

My family consists of me, a 20yr old who has just graduated this may from polytechnic in singapore, my 18yr old brother, my father and my mother. We have just moved house and everything is brand new. My mother has this obsession over having everything clean and immediately flares up when we make a mess. She is a very difficult person to communicate with and to be honest, my relationship with her is rather strained because we can't ever come to a understanding for each other.

Just this may, I took an interest in having a bigger bird for companionship. I have a lovebird and a quaker bird then and they generally are 'acceptable' in my mother's eyes because they do not make a mess. I have had a painful relationship few months back and it still bothers me and it makes me feel empty. That is why i thought maybe what i need is a bird that makes me feel not alone. And somehow it reached to a conclusion of getting an african gray.

It was hard to get my mother to accept having another bird because we already had two and with me going to university next year and work after that, she worries that there will be no one to care for the bird. I am a stubborn person that i can admit. I make up millions of excuses for myself to get what I one and its something that i have disliked about myself but its natural to me at the same time. And I convinced her that classes won't be all day, I can take care of it once I come back home and I can find a job that doesn't require me to be there all day. And she in a way, surrended, rather than accepted to having the bird.

My mother and father work at a wet market, selling vegetables and having quit secondary school to go to work, they know the importance of money. And I understand that. I just didn't expect that any of my birds would be injured to the state they need surgery...

My CAG is clingy and it hasn't been toilet trained nor used to being in a cage and I was half-way through the toilet training when the accident happened and now my family is torn apart.

Right now, it likes to be on the sofa and because the vet recommended it to be on a flat surface, I can't train it to be on the container top to poop when it needs to. So my only solution is to clean it up but my mother is picky and even just a little stain missed, she flares up. And even if i made sure to clean it nicely, she still thinks i didn't clean it properly. And my CAG is free-flighted, its wings hasn't been clipped and I didn't really like the idea of doing so because my CAG seems happy flying. But it flies to the kitchen a lot and the kitchen is open-spaced so my mother doesn't like it flying there.

I don't know how to teach it not to go there and just three hours ago before writing this message to you, my CAG, placed in its cage because my mother wants it to be in the cage so it doesn't go pooping around the house, has crawled to the top of the cage which its beak and healthy leg and because it is a top that can be closed and opened, its head was poking out and it has managed to hurt its wings.

I have took it to a vet who said that the wing should be fine as it might be a scrape when he was trying to get out of the cage and can be treated with some cream. Before going to the vet just mentioned, I have contacted the vet which deals with exotic animals and birds because he can't even stand properly on his healthy leg now and she said that it could be because he is tired standing on that leg all day. I do not know if it is just tired but I will keep him under observation until tomorrow to see if it is just that case.

Seeing my CAG limping like that breaks my heart to pieces and even thinking about makes me break down in tears. Due to my pampering of this child, it can't be left alone and my mother said that it breaks her heart to see me wake up early morning, tired to feed the CAG and not being able to return to my room for the rest of the day, having to stay by his side. And I understand that she is worried but it also breaks my heart to see the CAG I raised at 6 weeks old not as happy as it used to.

The exotic animals and bird vet advised me to place him in a small carrier or container that doesn't allow him to move but my bird placed in one, starts jumping, trying to get out the top and fearing he will hurt his leg, I left him on the tabletop of the living room. Several times he would fly to the couch to stand there and he even poops on it which makes my mother all the more unhappy. And some times he still flies to the kitchen despite his injury which is where the relationship in my family has thinned out.

And with the accident of the wing, I got so frightened because I didn't know what was wrong and I fear loosing him so much that I just broke down in tears before my whole family. And that made my mother cry and start compaining about what the CAG has done to our family. And with the vet consultations and medicine we got, it has already resulted in $1000 of bills. To go through the safer surgery would be $5000~$7000. I wanted to use the savings which is under both my name and my mother's but she doesn't want me to use it for fear that if the CAG injures himself again we would need another $5000~$7000. I really want him to go through surgery but with the cost and my mother's handle over the finance, I don't know how I can help him.

At this point, I really don't know what to do at all. I fear I do not know what I am doing and my mother refuses to let me pay for him to go for surgery and after our fight from him injuring his wing and having to go to the vet to spend $200 again has left my mother and my relationship hanging by a thin thread.

I'm lost and really heart-broken by my relationship with my mother and my CAG suffering. What should I do at this point? I'm sorry for this long message but I really don't know who else to ask... Thank you for your time and patience to read until here.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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You are in a heartbreaking place and I am so sorry.
You have to follow your heart on this...No one can tell you what to do...
Finances matter, so does your bird..
It's not an easy call.
Talk to your mom....it probably will not be a nice conversation, but at least that will give you an idea of where things are..
You need their support financially...but you love your bird. I get it..It just is really tough when you aren't financially independent.

If you guys have the money, that makes a difference..If things are tight, that also makes a difference. You need your mom, but she also should have known what she was signing up for when she agreed to get a large parrot for you...Then again, if she didn't, it is what it is...I wish I could help...I think you guys just need to have a serious heart-to-heart and be real in terms of why she resents the bird, finances, your feelings, etc etc.

It does sound like your mom is having to work with the bird a lot in the future, given your age /university etc. It also sounds like finances are not unlimited. My parents put our dog down last summer because her back legs could no longer work and they couldn't afford the surgery. It BROKE my heart, because she was my baby for 14 years and they chose to put her down (which was the worst part), but it would have been thousands of dollars with unknown success (and my parents struggle financially--I don't live with them but I grew up with this dog)...I fought with my mom a lot too...there were many tears and angry words. Like I said, i's a really tough call because it is impossible to make a choice that satisfies all of your concerns...Wish there was more I could do.
 
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Laurasea

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Aug 2, 2018
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You and your family both have valid concerns.
Negotiations and compromise .
It’s difficult to be an adult and live with your parents, it just is. But as it’s their home, you have to make more of the adjustments to make it work. Regardless of if you are in the right or not
In the states they sell a bird diaper thing . Maybe yiu can see if something like that is available, or if yiu can make it yourself. Still will take a little work to get gem used to having it on, they can’t have it on 24/7 either.

Nappy with Waterproof Inner Layer, Cute Urine Wet Suit for Macaw African Budgies Parakeet Agapornis Fischeri Cockatiel
 
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T00tsyd

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May 8, 2017
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I do really feel for you but this is the adult world. Your first task is to make friends with your mother. You admit that although you had 2 birds already you decided to get another one to make your sadness better. That was a lot to ask of any creature and a little unfair.

You need to approach your mother and apologise to her for the extra pressure you have put on the family. This will perhaps be hard but it will prove to both her and yourself just how grown up you really are. I will not go into the rights or wrongs of bringing a new bird into the house when you presumably had little idea of 1) how it would be afforded, 2) who would really care for it while you continue your education, 3) how any vet bills would be met, 4) what the impact on your family dynamics would be.

This may feel harsh but sadly you have apparently made decisions based on childish hope and impetuosity rather than adult reason and forethought. I don't know how much humble pie you will have to eat to get your mother to agree to save your bird and it may be that this is the final straw but you need to offer to help. Can you do a job and help to pay? Can you show your mother the maturity and determination to help your bird alongside her? That is where I would start.

We all make mistakes, my advice would be that this is indeed a moment when you need to learn some very quick lessons as you fast approach adulthood for the sake of your bird who is totally reliant on you. I wish you well but even more I wish your birds well too.
 

Jottlebot

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Aug 29, 2012
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Your situation sounds so difficult. I'm so sorry to hear it's so tough.

I wonder whether you need to think about whether you should be keeping this bird. I'm just going to be blunt about it. I don't know if there are rescues or charities in Singapore that would take your bird on, but I wonder whether you should think about it.

I'm concerned that you don't feel able to follow the vets advice about keeping your CAG in a small cage. Covering the cage and having it somewhere quiet should help the bird to settle, I know what you mean about the climbing about, but this should stop if he/she isn't disturbed and not listening to your vet seems to have already caused further injury and damage to the family relationships. As well as a toll on your own wellbeing.

I know you love this bird, but sometimes what is best for your bird and what you want are not the same things.

I haven't seen your previous post, but if your Mum won't pay, then what happens to your bird?!

I know nothing about you or your family, but I wonder whether there might be something going on where perhaps both you and your mother deal with issues in unhelpful ways. It sounds like her cleaning may be verging on the obsessive and it sounds like you have bought a bird to solve an issue with loneliness and the end of a bad relationship. There are some warning signs there, but I'm a psychologist, we see dysfunction everywhere (apart from in ourselves of course). I hope I have not caused offence. It wasn't my intention, but I felt it was perhaps an important comment to make.
 

Scott

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Aug 21, 2010
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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Hello again Suyu, I remember you from the original thread discussing your CAG's broken leg. Link for the benefit of participant context: http://www.parrotforums.com/general-health-care/86768-need-advice-what-do.html

Superb advice shared above by deeply caring members, my view is your dilemma is best solved through family dialog and consensus. This may mean more concession on your part in exchange for financial assistance. Your mom may be willing to soften her stance if she sees you sacrificing in meaningful ways and learning adult life lessons.

Many of us have acquired companion animals as displacement from emptiness or transient sadness. It is clear you have great insight, the hardest part is making a wise decision - in this case biased in favor of the innocent CAG without voice.
 

charmedbyekkie

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A couple of thoughts, since I don't think others in the forum understand/are aware of the cultural nuances of your post.


Your parents (and my parents) are of different generations than us. Not sure which wet market (don't tell me - I don't like doxxing) they have their stall at, but likely rent has been difficult and due to the past CB their sales might be hurting and maybe even their suppliers (if they get from Msia) might be difficult. Your brother, depending on his schooling, may be starting NS soon if he's not in poly - he won't be able to make income (I think NS is average around 350 monthly?). You starting uni soon (depending on which uni) means that you might have to commute long hours.

Your parents are probably quite stressed. I know my friends who recently BTO or reno right before COVID are all stressed about their finances - some lost their jobs, others have a huge pay cut, nobody can expect 13-month this year, etc. Everyone is wondering how to survive not just Phase 2 but also Phase 3. Since your family just shifted, if your mum is like my mum, she's probably clinging onto what comfort she does have - a good, clean home. It's also a matter of face, even if you aren't having guests over. When everything else hits the fan, our parents' generation clings to saving face. What will your relatives say if they come to a brand new home that already had poop stains on it? The family drama would be unbelievable.


If I'm keeping up to date with the cost of CAG/TAGs in Singapore, your new bird cost almost as much as your parents make in one month. Now, likely due to CB and the recent house shift, your parents probably dipped to their savings (and being parents, they aren't likely to tell you and your brother these kind of things - been there, done that). They're also probably thinking about CPF going for your uni fees, then eventually your brother's uni fees. Now what happens if the border opens again and cases spike again - gahmen said they wouldn't hesitate to initiate another CB; another CB, confirm more hawkers and other SMEs will go out of business.

Your bird's medical costs compared to the roof over your family's head is probably what they're thinking about. What I'm saying is, your parents probably don't have the finances to cover your bird's medical bills.


Now, moving onto other cultural nuances.. our parents' generation and animals. Cats aren't allowed in HDBs, dogs as pets (not guard dogs) are more of a recent Western influence, birds are more often songbirds in tiny cages that don't even have space for their tails. Our parents' generation don't see animals as emotional support. You and I see them as our babies, little personalities to coddle. Our parents tolerate us introducing those additional costs into their lives. These additional costs are acceptable so long as they don't significantly impact the family.


So what you can do:
I assume you currently have him in this kind of metal cage:
iZABD1F.jpg

If you do have this or something similar, use a lock on the top - do not just rely on the latch. Your bird can strangle himself or break his neck (ours nearly did when we first adopted him). And never use the top section - birds have been killed by it collapsing.

(I know this is the normal/average cage for CAGs and other parrots of that size in Singapore. I won’t discuss that here ,and I would encourage forum members not to either, if I don’t overstep myself.)

Now what I suspect the vet is recommending is to put him the cat carrier sort of cage (see the white carrier above the metal cage). (When our boy was hospitalised with an IV in him, he was in more of a cat carrier sort of cage.) This will prevent him from using his leg too much and allow him to rest, instead of clinging along the bars. The way they set up the carrier was to have a soft blanket at the bottom, then paper towels on top to easy catch and clean the poop.

Since your bird likes the couch, get a placemat and/or a blanket and lay it over the couch before setting your bird there. You can help your mother save face and cling onto her comfort while also adapting to your bird’s needs. Be sure to remove the covering when you remove the bird, the cleaning of the covering is your responsibility as well (and if your mum is like my mum, clean the covering every single time you use it or have multiple so that you can alternate).

Now I understand the leg chain hook is on the broken leg. I would go with what Laurasea recommended. Get a diaper suit (I'll try to find and link some local sellers) and train your bird to accept a diaper or a harness. Considering his leg was broken once, keeping that as his leg chain leg just puts him at risk of breaking it again. Only a couple of weeks ago, a macaw broke his leg chain leg doing the same thing your bird did.

I always hesitate to recommend diapers for bigger birds because they can easily undo velcro, but in this case, it doubles as a way to avoid getting poop around the house until he can be potty trained properly.




For forum members not from Singapore, some additional context:

I see a lot of people here talking about 'since you live at home' and 'not financially independent' etc. People in Singapore live with their parents until they get married - it’s culturally expected and financially responsible. Even after they get married, some continue to live with their parents until their government housing becomes available. Beyond that, children are expected to start giving their parents a regular stipend of sorts once they are of working age.

A lot of people are also talking about emotional heart-to-heart conversations. Culturally, that is... a dream family. We don't talk about emotions here, especially not in more traditional families. Mental health is discriminated against in the work place and in social circles (you can lose your job if someone finds out that you've seen a mental health professional) - society blames the individual for causing problems ("why can't you just be normal?"). In addition, familial hierarchy is so deeply embedded and ingrained - we even have filial piety laws. Very few instances a child can push back against parents or if they do, they do so without parents' knowledge or approval (get a pet without asking permission because permission is likely going to be denied). You only start developing the social/familial stature when you yourself gets married and have children, then you can start to have a say in certain matters. Familial abuse is not uncommon, but never spoken about nor addressed. Even if your parents are verbally or physically abusive, you are still expected to maintain contact and financially take care of them.

I'm sure I'm forgetting more cultural differences that would need to be translated.. but do keep in mind.
 

charmedbyekkie

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Again, some forum members and I are willing to help chip in with costs. If you want, I don't mind calling Dr. Denise at Light of Life and seeing if she is ok with payment plans. I know as Singaporeans, we really are averse to being in debt, whether financial or social debt. But do PM me if you feel comfortable - I am happy to pass you my WhatsApp and work out how to cover the vet bills.

If your mum is concerned about you spending time to care of a medically vulnerable bird, it might be worth looking in to see if you can board him with an experienced parrot trainer or with an avian vet. I know it's an additional cost, but let's talk about what is feasible for you, your parents, and your bird. If it's financially feasible for me, I will help you cover it.

When I was about your age, I was in a tough financial position, and someone loaned me money. It took me a few years to be financially comfortable enough to pay them back at no interest, and I do believe in passing on that generosity forward.
 

T00tsyd

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I am hugely touched by the last posts. To have someone offer both to help financially and also clarify the very relevant cultural differences is a revelation. It goes such a long way to explaining this young person's dilemma. Thank you.
 
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suyu

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Hi, Charmedbyekkie,
I don't have enough posts to dm you on this forum but I have dmed you in instagram. Thank you for much for your support and advice. I really appreciate it !
 
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suyu

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Thank you everyone for your support, advice and encouragement. It helps me feel a lot better to know that there are people out there that cares !
 

Scott

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RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Hi, Charmedbyekkie,
I don't have enough posts to dm you on this forum but I have dmed you in instagram. Thank you for much for your support and advice. I really appreciate it !

Suyu, until you have sufficient posts to use the PM system, you may send contact information to any moderator (names are purple) and we will forward in confidence to Charmedbyekkie.
 

Scott

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Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
I am hugely touched by the last posts. To have someone offer both to help financially and also clarify the very relevant cultural differences is a revelation. It goes such a long way to explaining this young person's dilemma. Thank you.

Thank you everyone for your support, advice and encouragement. It helps me feel a lot better to know that there are people out there that cares !

The outpouring of support and insight is magnificent. I sincerely hope you find a solution that restores your CAG to health and heals familial relationships!

Deep respect and thanks to Charmedbyekkie for explaining cultural mores and shaping the dilemma in full context.
 
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suyu

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Thank you too Scott. You have gave me encouragement too and i appreciate it.
 

charmedbyekkie

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Hey, I just PMed you back on Instagram with my WhatsApp. Based on your update on how he's doing, I'm a bit worried about the long weekend with a public holiday. Is he still eating ok?

I've a few appts today, but let me see if I can PayLah or iBank if you need to rush him in today.
 

charmedbyekkie

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Just wanted to give a small update (with permission from Suyu):
The CAG's surgery went well. He has been discharged and is recovering at home.

Many thanks to members chipping in to help where they could.
 

Scott

Supporting Member
Aug 21, 2010
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Goffins: Gabby, Abby, Squeaky, Peanut, Popcorn / Citron: Alice / Eclectus: Angel /Timneh Grey: ET / Blue Fronted Amazon: Gonzo /

RIP Gandalf and Big Bird, you are missed.
Just wanted to give a small update (with permission from Suyu):
The CAG's surgery went well. He has been discharged and is recovering at home.

Many thanks to members chipping in to help where they could.

Fantastic news, thanks for the update! Please convey my elation for having the surgery and best wishes for complete recovery!
 
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suyu

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Hello,
Thank you to Charmedbyekkie and the members that helped out. I am really glad to have found this community. First of all, I would like to give my thanks for taking the time to read through my long post and giving me meaningful advice and comments. Secondly, I'm really grateful to Charmedbykkie and those that have helped with chipping in for Gabriel's surgery. Thirdly, thank you for the advice for my family relationship. I have read all of your comments and talked things out with my mother. It wasn't easy one bit for me and for my mother to have that talk but now that we talked things out, she is much more forgiving(Not completely but a lot of improvements). And we both having breathing space. Gabriel's surgery is a success and he is now at home being his active self while taking his medicine. Things seem so much brighter and I can't thank all of you enough for the help. Without this community, Gabriel's surgery wouldn't be possible and my family and I might continue our cold war. I have learned a big lesson after this incident and talking things out, asking for help and making comprimises have changed things so much for the better. I never imagined anyone would read this nor help with the huge sum of surgery fees. And I am glad I tried and grateful to those who have stepped forward to comment, give advice and offer their help.
 

noodles123

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Jul 11, 2018
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Umbrella Cockatoo- 15? years old..I think?
I must be living under a rock because I missed a lot of this---
THIS MAKES ME SO HAPPY!!!
Suyu- I'm SO relieved and and glad! I also am relieved that your mom and you are doing a better.

Charmed and everybody--- you guys are awesome!
 

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