Help! Is my IRN sick?

ihijazi · Dec 18, 2016

Hello guys,

Sam here, a new member.

I got an IRN about 7 days ago. The breeder told me that he/she is ~3 months old, and that I still need to hand-feed him/her.

That sounded a bit awkward to me, do they at age of 3 months need to be hand-fed? That didn't bother me, it'll create "bond" anyway. What's making me nervous is the fact that he/she sleeps a lot. Almost only awake to to have food, by screaming for it.

My observations
1. Always stays on the top perch, within a big cage. Never on bottom. And on two legs.
2. Comes to me when I open up the cage top.
3. Have no problem in staying outside on any of his/her stands
4. Has NO discharges (nose/eyes). Beak looks healthy, not sharp yet though.
5. Feathers not the cleanest or shiniest. I rarely see him preening himself.
6. Droppings look normal
7. Not much of noise, only when seems to be hungry.
8. Been with me for only 5 days now.

My observations for the last two days:
1. He still sleeps a lot, never on ground, always on top perch. On two legs, never on one leg. Tucking his head back.
2. When in cage, and wakes up, he keeps calling (me I assume), going up and down, left and right, looking at me, bobbing his head. When I open the cage top, he comes up and jump right into my finger. I put him on his stand outside, still he keeps calling and sometimes flies to me. All good. I try to feed him formula, he doesn't accept anymore, but I push him to because he doesn't eat on his own.
3. When in cage, doing what I mentioned in preceding point, he tries to eat, few seeds but that's it.
4. Once I feed him, he's back to sleep again. He's even half-sleeping while feeding him. He's only active when he's awake in cage, begging to get out, then sleep again after I feed him outside.
5. Droppings seem to be okay, normal ones. No discharges from eyes or nose.
6. His eyes are almost full black.

Can you please help with comments/notes/suggestions? I'm lost here...

:blue:

Thanks,
Sam

Scott · Dec 18, 2016

Welcome, Sam, thanks for a comprehensive description! I am not well-versed with the timeline of weaning an IRN, but other members will have a better perspective.

Have you discussed this with the breeder? Some of your observations may indicate issues beyond the standard acclimation process. If you have access to an avian veterinarian, a well-check would be invaluable for a baseline report and possible diagnosis of illness. Hopefully there are no issues beyond the normal!

Dinosrawr · Dec 18, 2016

Great observations! My 3 month old IRN came to me fully weaned onto vegetables, fruits, and pellets. He had no problem eating any of his foods and in no way needed to be hand fed. So I highly doubt your breeder did an appropriate job of weaning your bird or, instead, gave you a bird that was younger. Hand feeding does not equate building a bond, nor is it necessary to do to build a bond as you've noted. And like Scott mentioned, vet checks are incredibly important. Some illnesses simply are not visible and require a blood panel to identify them. I recommend going to an Avian Vet and having a body exam, fecal exam, and blood panel done.

1. If he's sleeping a lot, chances are he isn't getting enough sleep during the night. Is he covered at night? How long do you let him sleep for? Parrots need around 12 hours of sleep a night to be fully rested.
2. I think in this scenario is where you need to definitely wean him. Wean him onto warm, soft foods such as sweet potato, butternut squash, grains, etc. That way it still helps produce a juvenile feeding response but you start introducing new healthy foods. Over time you add more variety to the mix, more "hard" foods, and pellets as well. It sounds like he's hungry but he's ready to move onto actual, solid food.
3. Seeds aren't a balanced, healthy diet for a parrot like an IRN. It could attribute to his dull feather colouring as he isn't receiving enough of the proper nutrients or vitamins he needs. If his feathers are dull and he isn't preening them enough, encouraging preening behaviour by bathing him and by introducing a balanced, varied diet of vegetables, fruits, and pellets.

He doesn't sound sick so much as lacking sleep and/or the appropriate nutrition to me. It's easy to be tired when you're not sleeping enough or eating enough of the right foods.

For some comparisons, I've attached some photos of my IRN.

This is what Shiko looked like the day after he came home at 3 months of age:

And this is him enjoying his chop a day after he came home, as evident on his beak:

Here he is at nearly 3 years of age:

KelMichelle · Dec 18, 2016

It may just be an adjustment period, my IRN was sleepy to begin with and she rarely slept perched on one foot, now she is a monster lol. But she was also fully weaned when she came to us. Always keep mind though birds are experts at disguising illness because in the wild it makes them easy prey just keep an eye on the little bugger. I believe it was after a week or so before Lemon started sleeping perched on one foot. Good Luck

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ihijazi · Dec 19, 2016

Thanks everyone.

I just got back from the avian vet. The doctor said he's definitely sick

Long story, short, I got home with the medicines to give him twice a day. The doctor was positive that his chances are great to survive, and that I should see improvement by tomorrow. If not, to bring it back to incubate it.

Hope he gets better!!

:blue2:

ihijazi · Dec 19, 2016

Dinosrawr said:
Great observations! My 3 month old IRN came to me fully weaned onto vegetables, fruits, and pellets. He had no problem eating any of his foods and in no way needed to be hand fed. So I highly doubt your breeder did an appropriate job of weaning your bird or, instead, gave you a bird that was younger. Hand feeding does not equate building a bond, nor is it necessary to do to build a bond as you've noted. And like Scott mentioned, vet checks are incredibly important. Some illnesses simply are not visible and require a blood panel to identify them. I recommend going to an Avian Vet and having a body exam, fecal exam, and blood panel done.

1. If he's sleeping a lot, chances are he isn't getting enough sleep during the night. Is he covered at night? How long do you let him sleep for? Parrots need around 12 hours of sleep a night to be fully rested.
2. I think in this scenario is where you need to definitely wean him. Wean him onto warm, soft foods such as sweet potato, butternut squash, grains, etc. That way it still helps produce a juvenile feeding response but you start introducing new healthy foods. Over time you add more variety to the mix, more "hard" foods, and pellets as well. It sounds like he's hungry but he's ready to move onto actual, solid food.
3. Seeds aren't a balanced, healthy diet for a parrot like an IRN. It could attribute to his dull feather colouring as he isn't receiving enough of the proper nutrients or vitamins he needs. If his feathers are dull and he isn't preening them enough, encouraging preening behaviour by bathing him and by introducing a balanced, varied diet of vegetables, fruits, and pellets.

He doesn't sound sick so much as lacking sleep and/or the appropriate nutrition to me. It's easy to be tired when you're not sleeping enough or eating enough of the right foods.

For some comparisons, I've attached some photos of my IRN.

This is what Shiko looked like the day after he came home at 3 months of age:

And this is him enjoying his chop a day after he came home, as evident on his beak:

Here he is at nearly 3 years of age:

Shiko is very pretty!! My little guy's color are almost the same!

Flboy · Dec 19, 2016

ihijazi said:
Thanks everyone.

I just got back from the avian vet. The doctor said he's definitely sick

Long story, short, I got home with the medicines to give him twice a day. The doctor was positive that his chances are great to survive, and that I should see improvement by tomorrow. If not, to bring it back to incubate it.

Hope he gets better!!

We are here for you!
Good for you, going to the vet! Very common here to see someone in a 'blind panic' call for help..then reply, "Am going to the vet, ASAP, -right after the holidays!"

Scott · Dec 19, 2016

Thanks for the update, Sam! Glad to see you took your baby to the vet in a timely manner! Antibiotics can work wonders and quickly!! Please remember to follow the vet advice and give the antibiotics for as long as prescribed, even if your bird is seemingly better. Hoping for a quick recovery!!

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

Quick update here guys:

Still he's sleeping quite a lot

Yesterday late afternoon, I thought he was getting better, as he was somehow a little bit more active. But this morning, he's sleeping still, ate few pallets, and then back to sleep tucking his head in his back. I continued on the medication, and on hand feeding. He just wakes up calling for food. Even though he resist it a little bit, but then back to sleep.

Doctor told me that I should see improvement today. Thus far, I didn't

Praying he gets better before the end of the day...

SilverSage · Dec 20, 2016

Praying for your little one. Please take him
Back in if he does t get markedly better! Incubation can do wonders to help.

What does the breeder have to say for himself? Please tell me he is at least covering the vet bills!

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ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

I wish it was only about the vet bills... I wouldn't mind it as long as comes back healthy.

And that breeder, I might just take a serious action and report him to authority.

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

I haven't told you, but the the diagnoses is yeast infection.

I've been given:
1. Something for the pain: drops, 0.2mm, twice a day
2. An anti fungal: drops, 1 drop only
3. Powder to mix with 0.5L of water

In the morning, I mix #1 and #2 in #3 (instead of water), with some food (formula, Harrison). And make sure he gets it all. Then I give food, mixing it with #3. So there is NO water involved, since the bird doesn't drink on its own.

In the evening, right at sunset, I give him #1 in #3 with some food (formula, Harrison).

In between, I given small portions of formula (formula, Harrison), mixed with #3, throughout the day.

During the day, I keep him close to light bulb, which he seems to like and stay very close to. At night, cover his cage completely, and keep it warm.

Does the above make sense to you? How long does it take for me to see improvement? I feel so bad for the little guy, not playing or enjoying his baby age

Kentuckienne · Dec 20, 2016

You are taking good care if this baby. Thank you for that! There are flat, rectangular cage heaters that might help to keep him warm at night, since he likes to be near the light bulb. They are like thick metal plates that attach to the inside of the cage, with an armored cable that goes out the back. They don't get hot enough to burn you or the parrot, and the bird can choose how close to sit for the preferred temperature. I got mine from the Home Depot store as a special order, but many places sell them.

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

Thanks, Kentuckienne.

I'm literally working from home the past few days just to keep close eye on him.

Kentuckienne · Dec 20, 2016

There are no guarantees with parrots, but I hope yours is cured of this problem quickly and that the time you spend together now translates into lifelong affection and devotion. She knows you are helping. May it bring a special closeness to your bond.

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

FYI

It's a neon night bulb.

The powder is: ORNICURE
The two times drug is: Mycostatin, 0.2 for each dose
The one time drug: doesn't have label, it's the pain reliever, I guess, which is one drop.

SilverSage · Dec 20, 2016

Please DO report the breeder, but only AFTER you have talked to him and given him a chance to do the right thing. It could be that he is inexperienced and honestly didn't know he was selling unhealthy babies. That just means he needs to be made aware so he can take the others to the vet and get the medical help he needs to correct his ways.

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wrench13 · Dec 20, 2016

You are being a good parront ! For a yeast infection, Mycostatin make perfect sense.

May take a day or 2 to see some improvement, The important thing is to use ALL the medicine as it is prescribed. DO NOT stop just because he is feeling better.

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

Will do sir, and keep you guys posted.

Good night for now

ihijazi · Dec 20, 2016

Before I sleep, and because I'm too concerned, I had to find my parrot doctor on FB, and message him to get back to me with detailed explanation, which I'd like to share with you, and get back your own comments/feedback:

His response:
My dear friend, thank you for your message and for the feedback about your baby bird. To make the story short, as it is a bit late for a long chat, but I'll be happy to call you tomorrow. Your birdy suffers from acute multiple infection. because there was no time for diagnostics, as most probably the bird would not make it before we get the results. Like most of hand reared birds with weak immune system, he suffers from multiple infection (though we do not know the primary reason - food related, food poisoning, viral infection, and many others). The protocol for bird treatment is that if one uses antibiotics which kills apart from the "bad guys" also saprophytic (probiotic flora), it makes place for pathogenic fungi - mostly candida or aspergillus. For that reason alternatively to antibiotics anty-fungal treatment must be applied. Your parrot gets a broad spectrum antibiotic - doxycyline (broad spectrum including mycoplasma), nystatine - any-fungal antibiotic and as antyinflammatory - meloxicam (NSAID - reducing symptoms of an inflammation). I presume that intestinal flora will be replaced with the liquid food you are feeding , which should include also strains of probiotic bacteria. Please keep you baby warm (electric bulb, place the bottom of the cage on a heating pad or pillow but be careful and keep the electric cords away from you parrot beak.) Do not use AC and feed it few times a day 5-6 times with lesser amount of food but more often. Always use the antibiotic water solution as a food diulent!!! In case if you are not sure if it gets enough food or enough amount of recommended medicines, pleas bring it over and I will teach you how to feed it with a crop catheter directly to it's crop (stomach) as a force feeding. And stay in touch. Wishing you good luck and good night. Peter

Help! Is my IRN sick?

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So much love!

Am I doing this right....

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