Handfeeding and weaning

Luce (pronounced Lou chay), my male silver IRN came home yesterday. He is so very sweet. I placed a bowl of food in his cage and within 5 minutes of being in his cage he ate, mostly chop but picking at some seed and nuts. My first hand feeding in the evening was a bit more challenging as he seemed more curious about his environment than eating. I did have some trouble maintaining the temperature so thought that might be the issue. This morning, I made sure his handfeeding formula was at the right consistency and temperature. Again, he did not show enormous interest in eating much. I am trying to get 10-15 cc's in a feeding and I would say we got close to 10. I again put feed in his cage and also showed him his water bowl. He did pick at the food for a bit. He is pretty much staying in one spot in the cage and preening. I opened up the top door of the cage and he came out when I was beside the cage.
My question: is his lack of interest in hand feeding a reaction to being in a new home and will change as he settles down? Is this an indication of his beginning to wean? He will be 8 weeks old on May 4th. He is on two handfeedings a day. Should I offer a 3rd hand feeding right now? I'm most concerned that he gets enough nutrition and doesn't drop weight. I will be scheduling him to see the vet within 7-10 days to check his weight.

The Breeder or Pet Store should have provided you with detailed instructions on the process of completing the weaning of you're Parrot. In all honesty, you should not have been provided the Parrot until it had been fully weaned. Selling Parrots that are not fully weaned is resulting in an ever increasing behavioral problems.

Provide your unweaned Parrot with as much solid food and formula as it wants and the formula until it fully rejects it for at least a couple of weeks. A Parrot that develops a fear of a lack of food (in whatever form) is very likely to have /develop behavior problem.

Selling unweaned Parrots is strictly 'profit' based and not based on the early development of a relationship with the Human. That is pure 'BS!'

Sailboat, they did show me how to hand feed and gave me printed directions. My question was that I did exactly what they showed me and he doesn't show much interest in formula. When I watch videos of young birds, they gobble down formula. I did offer him some scrambled egg that we had this morning and he did eat that. I have also placed some fresh fruit in his bowl and set him beside it and he is picking at it. When I have him out to feed he is more interested in investigating his surroundings and coming to me. He started playing with a toy this morning so I think he is getting more comfortable with his cage. I'm more than willing to finish his weaning just want to make sure I am not doing anything wrong. I'll talk with my breeder to also get their opinion.

I'm in agreement with Sailboat on this one. I'm no expert on IRN's but I know that a breeder willingly giving someone an unweaned baby is a huge red flag.

Not knowing how to properly hand-feed an unweaned baby parrot could easily leave you with a dead baby. No one should undertake it unless you've had experience with it before. Even if they showed you how, it is very tricky to get it right. It is a good sign though that your baby is picking at the food you put in its cage. That means it is starting to wean. Continue to keep offering your baby these foods, and keep hand feeding twice a day until it rejects the feeding and begins mostly eating on its own. Offer a variety of fruits and veggies.

Socialization is also very important! We'd love to see pictures My tips on hand feeding.... a digital thermometer is a necessity, so you know the temperature is right. Nothing under 100 degrees F. What type of syringe are you using? How much formula are you using to water ratio? I find that filling a metal or glass bowl with hot water and placing formula bowl/cup in this keeps it warmer longer. Always use fresh formula. Always clean and sterilize all equipment used after each feeding.

To answer your question as simply as possible; he could be starting to wean or he could be just adjusting. Either is fine. Keep offering two feedings until he is completely refusing one (probably morning) and then drop down to one feeding until he has refused all formula entirely for one week; that is when he is weaned.


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Itzibean: Thanks for the feedback. I am doing as you recommended. I have a very hot glass of water and kept the feed temperature between 105 and 106. I am using the same syringe type they used as the breeder. I started with a 2 to 1 ratio of food to water but added a bit more food to get it to a thick gravy consistency. I use a digital thermometer to check temperature. When I am finished feeding, I wash all items in a temperature over 120 degrees and do a quick soak in clorox/water, rinse and dry for next feeding. I did offer him a bit of scrambled egg we had this morning and he ate that. Also offered some apple and banana in addition to his mixed feed of pellets, seed and chop. As for socialization, he is in a section of the house that has full view of the living room, dining room and kitchen so he can see all of us at any time of the day. He has been out of his cage already twice today with me and I have a perch which I set a foot away from me and he spends time with me when not being personally handled. He has even met the dog, a newfoundland and I saw no puffing up. I know he is still adjusting to his cage which is quite a bit bigger than his baby cage which he shared with his clutch mates but today he started to play with a toy. I don't have experience with how all breeders operate. Years ago my Hahn's macaw came weaned from a breeder and my Senegal was an adopted older adult. I want what is in his best interest so my inquiry is to just make sure I am doing what needs to be done. Thanks for your advice!

What Sailboat said is 100% true, selling unweaned baby birds to people that have zero experience hand-feeding simply do the breeders or pet shops can save money (or make money) is absolutely irresponsible, selfish, and frankly it's becoming so commonplace it's repulsive.

As a breeder of 20+ years that was born into a family of bird breeders I can assure you that the pet shop "showing you how to hand-feed" and "giving you printed directions" (that's just ridiculous) is not safe for the baby bird, nor is it fair to the buyer. I cannot tell you how many dozens of new bird owners (most in the last 6 months) that have purchased an unweaned baby bird to save money have come on here either because they got home and figured out that hand-feeding the baby was more difficult than they ever thought it could be, or unfortunately because they were having a major problem, sometimes resulting in the death of the baby. They ALL make the statement that "The breeder/pet shop acted like it was no big deal and said it was easy".

There are so many intricacies involved in hand-feeding and hand-raising baby birds that experienced breeders spend decades learning not the motions of actually feeding the baby, as the pet shop no doubt showed you in 10 minutes or less (and of course followed-up with the printed directions), but rather recognizing the hundreds of things that can go wrong while hand-feeding and learning what to do what to do when things do go wrong. On top of the buyer's lack of instincts, which develop over a very long period of time, they also typically have a lack of specialty supplies, supplements, and medications. Do you have a digestive enzyme supplement that contains protease and lipase to add to the formula in case a baby goes into crop stasis? Do you keep prescription medications from your avian vet on hand, such as Nystatin to treat yeast infections that commonly develop in the baby's crop? Do you have several different sized crop tubes so that you can crop-feed the baby if it loses it's feeding response entirely? A better question is did the pet shop or breeder who took 10 minutes to show you how to hand-feed your baby ever mention any of the things I just said?

This isn't at all your fault or the fault of anyone that purchases an unweaned baby bird because the unethical breeder or pet shop acts like it's not a big deal, it's very easy and anyone can do it with 10 minutes of "training". They sold your baby bird unweaned not because they truly thought you could do it with absolutely no experience, not because they truly think it's an easy thing to do and anyone can do it after watching them do it once, they sold the unweaned baby to you because they no longer had to pay for anymore formula for that baby, they no longer had to spend time feeding that baby, and because it opened up space for them to pump out more babies for them to sell unweaned. It's becoming a very common practice and unfortunately unethical breeders with no scruples only wanting to make a buck are becoming just as common.

You can search the breeding and hand-feeding forum and find written answers to any questions you have, though written answers are very poor substitutes for an experienced bird breeder. The best advice I can give you is if you have any issues at all or if your baby stops eating or appears to be at all sick or suffering from a problem, please take the baby back and have the pet shop finish weaning it for you. They should allow you to visit and spend time with your baby during the process.



"Dance like nobody's watching..."

Ellen D- Thanks for your reply. I didn't bring this baby home early to save money. The breeder has all her birds go home around 8 weeks. This is a fairly well known breeder in my area so I didn't think they would make a poor decision. You are correct, by the way, that they spent only about 10 minutes showing me how to hand feed and did not discuss any other potential issues. They didn't even me the option of having the baby stay with them until weaned, although I will certainly consider that. I just don't want to lose him. I will check his weight to make sure he is not dropping daily. Giving him 48 hours to adjust. I feel really bad because I did a lot of reading and education and saw a number of people who were hand feeding the last few weeks before fully weaned. Thought this was the norm now with birds. I find it hard to sort out, when reading, as so many people have different opinions, it is hard to sort through for accurate information. It appeared that things changed since I got my Hahn's 25 years ago. Will watch him very closely.

A better evening. Luce spent a bit more time exploring some of his cage. He discovered the millet and ate some. This evening when I was getting out his formula and supplies to feed, he actually started calling. First time he has made a sound since coming home yesterday. I tried a different feeding method, using a bent spoon and he did much better than last night or this morning. I could feel his crop bulging tonight. Earlier today I was sitting with him in front of his cage. I moved my chair and he moved to be in front of me. I moved again and he again moved to be in front of me. In all he moved four times, to be in front of me. I take that as a good sign that he is curious and not frightened of me. Hope we continue to make progress.

So awesome, many babies do prefer the bent spoon! FYI, you appear to be much more educated than the standard new paronting role! Thank you for not taking offense, this was directed at the breeder!

Thanks David. I am committed to doing the best for this little guy. I have much to learn and am open to any suggestions from those who have experience. I already love my Luce.

LilyLaneFarmer said:

Itzibean: Thanks for the feedback. I am doing as you recommended. I have a very hot glass of water and kept the feed temperature between 105 and 106. I am using the same syringe type they used as the breeder. I started with a 2 to 1 ratio of food to water but added a bit more food to get it to a thick gravy consistency. I use a digital thermometer to check temperature. When I am finished feeding, I wash all items in a temperature over 120 degrees and do a quick soak in clorox/water, rinse and dry for next feeding. I did offer him a bit of scrambled egg we had this morning and he ate that. Also offered some apple and banana in addition to his mixed feed of pellets, seed and chop. As for socialization, he is in a section of the house that has full view of the living room, dining room and kitchen so he can see all of us at any time of the day. He has been out of his cage already twice today with me and I have a perch which I set a foot away from me and he spends time with me when not being personally handled. He has even met the dog, a newfoundland and I saw no puffing up. I know he is still adjusting to his cage which is quite a bit bigger than his baby cage which he shared with his clutch mates but today he started to play with a toy. I don't have experience with how all breeders operate. Years ago my Hahn's macaw came weaned from a breeder and my Senegal was an adopted older adult. I want what is in his best interest so my inquiry is to just make sure I am doing what needs to be done. Thanks for your advice!

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I have a Newfie too. He's going on 15 years old which is really old for a newf and his back legs are starting to give out. So I know the sad day is coming that I'm going to have to put him down.

My first pet bird was a 4 week old Senegal. She or he is about 12 weeks now and despite not having any experience hand feeding a baby bird it went well fortunately. I followed everything to a T like what you are doing. It's been a healthy eater from the beginning though, so maybe some birds are just pickier than others. It sounds like you're doing everything right.

WE also need pictures of Luce!...just sayin'...






Jim

Have renamed Luce to Silver as my 88 y.o. father could not remember the Italian pronunciation. We are still struggling with feeding and weight gain. No weight gain in a week. We saw the vet yesterday. Silver looked fine from a visual physical exam but a mouth swab and microbiology showed bacteria in his mouth. We are on 10 days of oral Zythromax. The vet explained that weight drop is normal during weaning but we don't want to get to a 10% weight loss. He expects the antibiotic will increase his appetite and weight. I hope so. He did take all of his hand feeding this morning when he did not have any interest in morning feeding. I gave him his chop and added broccoli, apples, watermelon, parsley, red lettuce, carrots, egg and peas. He also has a bowl of seed and pellets. I will watch how much he is eating closely. I am considering giving him an additional 5 cc of handfeeding if he does not eat much just to make sure he is getting sufficient nutrition to not lose weight. Any thoughts on this?