Hit a brick wall with IRN need advice

Hi,

Me and my partner have had our beautiful IRN for about a year now. The trouble we are having is getting him to step up or even touching him.

He is willing to come up to us, touch our fingers with his beak and take food from our hands. But he doesnt seem interested in interacting anymore than this, if we move our hands closer he will quickly walk away or fly off. Its been like this for a good 6 months.

He spends majority of day out his cage and night time in his cage (which he goes back in when we say bedtime)

Has anyone got any tips to help as he just seems happy to take food then fly off?

Thanks in advance
Dan

You need to figure out what motivates him. Birds and people only do the bare minimum required to get their needs met. If his current behavior is meeting his emotional/physical needs, then he has no reason to go outside of his comfort zone. All behavior serves a purpose. For example, lets say you are hungry...if you could snap your fingers and get a chocolate cake, then why would you go through the trouble of making your own....You wouldn't unless you enjoyed baking. So....in your bird's case, you need to figure out what motivates him so that you can use that to shape his behavior.

He apparently does not want to be touched. The flying and backing away are all forms of escape behavior (he does it because this behavior allows him to escape from something he finds unpleasant or fears). Right now, the act of stepping up offers no pay-off to him and without incentive (intrinsic or extrinsic) he isn't going to do it. Before you read the next part of this, know that building trust and pairing your hands with positive consequences is the ultimate goal. You don't want to push him too hard or too fast, or you can damage trust and trust takes TIME. SO, remember that what I am about to say must take place over a long span of time, in conjunction with trust-building activities.

I am a big believer in ABA (for birds and humans)- it stands for Applied Behavior Analysis and it asserts (As I have stated) that all behaviors have a function or purpose. Most behavior falls into 1 of 4 categories:

1.Escape (to get away from someone, something, a task or a situation)
2.Tangibles (to get a preferred object/item)
3.Sensory (exp- eating when hungry, sleeping when tired, scratching when itchy)
4.Attention (good or bad----to get some form of attention from someone or everyone-- eye contact, vocalization, physical reaction etc)

When changing behavior, the idea is to find a more socially acceptable replacement behavior that meets the same function. So, if a bird bites to escape, you want to find a way to allow them to "escape" without biting.

In your case, it is a bit trickier, because although your bird is seeking escape, some of that escape may be motivated by fear, and fear is a weird thing because it is also sensory. It sounds like you have been working on building trust already and he trusts you enough to do some things, but not all things....

He obviously likes to get out of his cage (also a form of escape), so you might consider doing a forward chaining task analysis (with the reward of being let out).

List all of things you want him to do in order to step up (total task):
1. Attend to your presence
2. Respond to a command (e.g., "come here")
3. Walk towards a target within his cage (ultimately, your hand)
4. Respond to another command (e.g., "step up")
5. Step onto your hand
6. Stay on your hand when you move it out of the cage
7. Stay on your hand when you move it anywhere

This whole chain of events lists the breakdown of the whole task (stepping up).
The less competent he is at performing each step individually, the more you will have to break it down and the more you will have to provide rewards.
In the teaching phase, you want to start with the first step. Basically, walk over, say, "come here" and place your hand (or a stick in the location you want him to go). If he even takes a single step towards the target, reward (let him out) ***see my note below (final paragraph) on adding food rewards in addition to letting him out***. If he moves away, do not reward. You only want to reward progress. One he is consistently taking 1-2 steps toward stepping toward your hand, you will want to have him move even closer (3-4 steps toward your hand) before providing the reward. When I say consistently, I mean that he shows the correct response across multiple trials --hours apart (and usually, over multiple days).

You don't want to reward for skills you know he has already mastered..For instance, if you say, "come here" and 3 days in a row, your bird walks all the way over to your hand (possible mastery), you would not reward if on the 4th day he only takes 2 steps toward your hand. Instead, you would take a break/walk away and then return, restarting the task with your initial command of, "come here"--only rewarding if he walks all the way over to your hand (as he has already shown he can do this).

Once your bird is consistently walking over to your hand, you want to add the next step----which is stepping up. You will always begin the task at the start of the chain, but, over time (as step mastery is achieved) the reward will be held off until he shows obvious progress toward the next step in the chain....SO...he walks over every time you say, "come here" (steps 1-3) but then he climbs away. No reward, as he has shown no additional progress and he already mastered that first part. Try again---"come here", he walks over, then maybe he taps your hand with one foot---REWARD IMMEDIATELY for this action, as it is progress toward your ultimate goal. From that point forward, in order to get rewarded, he must walk over when you say "come here" and touch your hand (even slightly).

When he shows he can do that repeatedly---over multiple trials, you will add the next element----maybe, putting his whole foot on your hand. Again, "come here"; he walks over; he brushes your hand with his beak (hold off on reward)..you want forward progress....this continues until you have a bird that has memorized the entire chain. Once he has the whole chain down and has mastered all steps, he will be getting his reward when you physically take him out of the cage with your hand.

Does that sort of make sense?
Look up "forward chaining" task analysis...

***Also---even though he is working for escape, you can incorporate additional rewards into the system. SO, lets say he has a favorite treat....You can use that to motivate him to take those initial steps toward your hand...Hold the treat in one hand and use your other hand as the target. If you hold the treat off to the side (closer to the target) and he steps towards the treat, he is also technically stepping toward your hand, which means you would reward (by giving him the treat if he wants it, and/or letting him out)---this would be if you were just working on mastering the first 3 steps of the total task. Eventually, you would move the treat closer and closer to the target (your other hand) and hold off on giving it to him (and/or letting him out) until he gradually moved closer and closer to the target.

What noodleds said...!!!

Beyond that, I usually hear that Greys just aren't touchy-feely or cuddly... exceptions existing. I'm sure you've mused on the fact that parrots just aren't like puppies or kitties. But aren't they great?
Your bird goes to bed on command?????? I'm so envious! The Rb doesn't do anything on command. But of course that's because I allow it and indulge him.
In the end, it's up to the person and parrot as to what's okay.

Good for you, for reaching out!

Before seeing a behaviorist, try visiting your AV and expressing your concerns. In my experience, voicing your concerns when making an appointment will often result in your AV calling you. At the appointment, directly tell the AV your intent and reasons.

Find a behaviorist YOU are comfortable with (email several). Ask if she uses Skype or FaceTime for sessions. Write down your questions and comments beforehand and request a transcript.

Additionally, don't fear discussing costs. Some are corporately paid and request a specific donation while others take payment(s) directly from you. Most are attached to charities or sanctuaries and ask that donations go to them.

There are those that advocate for no training of certain species and the IRN is one. I believe that training makes for a more functional relationship. Only you can choose your actions regarding this rather controversial issue.

Good luck with your newish IRN!

LeslieA said:

Before seeing a behaviorist, try visiting your AV and expressing your concerns. In my experience, voicing your concerns when making an appointment will often result in your AV calling you. At the appointment, directly tell the AV your intent and reasons.

Find a behaviorist YOU are comfortable with (email several). Ask if she uses Skype or FaceTime for sessions. Write down your questions and comments beforehand and request a transcript.

Additionally, don't fear discussing costs. Some are corporately paid and request a specific donation while others take payment(s) directly from you. Most are attached to charities or sanctuaries and ask that donations go to them.

There are those that advocate for no training of certain species and the IRN is one. I believe that training makes for a more functional relationship. Only you can choose your actions regarding this rather controversial issue.

Good luck with your newish IRN!

Click to expand...

Leslie, thanks. I was not aware that there was a movement of no training for IRNs. Interesting...(Maybe the things I said are more controversial than I thought LOL/EEK)-Do you have any suggested reading for me? I would like to better understand their stance.


Side-note: If the OP chooses to train, I don't think he/she necessarily has to go see a behaviorist; at least not at first..Not to say that they are bad (I am one) and that is definitely an option, but I think that with the information he/she gets here + Google (assuming reputable sources) he/she could make a go at it on his/her own before spending money. Obviously professionals are always an option, but I with the right principles, it is possible independently.

Wow! Anyone advocating no training for an IRN doesn’t understand them at all.

Also; CONGRATS! A lot of people never make it to where you are with an IRN. It’s a particularly difficult species and most people don’t make much headway at all.

The simplest trick I know of is to just use a bigger treat (like a whole almost or even a salt-free chip/crisp and DON’T LET GO. That makes him sit on you while he eats and gets him used to it. Don’t try to let him at this point, just let him sit there while eating his treat.


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Hey Noodles123, I just read your post. I love all the info. I just got a IRN a week ago that is 6 months. He is used to people. he was with a family who took him back to the breeder for some reason. He is sweet. He doesn't seem afraid of me....he kisses me, he does step up on my finger to come out of the cage and at other times. He does these things and then sometimes he still runs from me to the back of his cage and won't stay on my shoulder-he just wants back on his cage. It's kind of mixed, he kisses me for a treat and at times when I just slowly approach him and then sometimes he seems to run away in fear?? So, I'm guessing that the above info will work for him too? I have a quaker too that I had first. Would it be better to try and train his behavior without the quaker in the same room or does that matter? I also wonder if I should take him into a different room away from his cage? I really want to train him to come to me anytime I say come here. I followed your advice and others when I first got my Quaker 6 months ago and she is a little sweetheart so I plan on getting more advice for my new IRN. I am a few steps ahead with him though since he is use to people.

Two things I've observed about my Alexandrines (same genus as your bird) are that they're NOT fussed about being touched too much and that they're INCREDIBLY food-greedy. Knowing these two facts has helped me enormously in getting them to the stage where we have a close understanding between the three of us and generally have a great time together.

If your IRN is of the touch-me-not variety, then respect that. Don't try to pet or stroke him on his head, bill or body: he just doesn't like it and continued attempts will destroy his trust in you. You might (much later) want to work on that and, perhaps, get your bird to be willing to allow touching, but I've never bothered with it and don't miss it with my own birds. They LOVE me and only want to be on me when they're out-of-cage. That's all I need from them!

Secondly, you can use the greediness to great advantage in demonstrating how beneficial certain behaviours will be to your bird's appetite. Find what treat he likes best (I use sunflower seeds, but bits of peanut or safflower seeds or anything the bird really, really likes can be used). If your bird will step up in order to come out-of-cage, then offer a treat, but don't let it go. Hold it for a few moments before letting the bird eat it. If you can, offer another treat before birdie flies off. Once he realises that being on you will be a source of treats, he ought to get used to the idea.

Another good idea is target training (check out our archives for great advice on this). My own birds learned this very quickly and it's SO useful in putting them where you want them to be!

Finally, here's a useful video which helped me rethink they way I'd been trying to get my blokes to step up. This technique might help you too.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe0pW5v7vOs"]Parrot Training Clips from Parrot Care & Training Seminar - YouTube[/ame]

Mine was terrified when he arrived but using parrot body language like slow blinking and winking and soft parrot-like chirp noises, and especially beak grinding (the first time he ever approached me was an immediate response to me starting to imitate beak grinding with my teeth) to communicate bring relaxed and content in his presence, and never approaching him but letting him come to me until he lost all fear of me, worked and still his physical affection is entirely expressed by seeking and accepting neck and face nuzzles. That's more enjoyable than stroking with hands anyway, in my opinion. We both love the soft feeling of feathers on face. Just make sure your face isn't greasy and hasn't absorbed in facial skin care products and it will be much more appealing than fingers, which I guess they can't relate to like they can the face. Offering your face for preening and nuzzling is also a great sign of trust among all social animals, and and you can't gain trust without showing some first.