First time owner - I've read a lot of info, but I'd like to hear you.

Hello! My name is Sam, I am currently living in Central America. I will be getting a IRN. I bought it off this breeder who recommended I give it to this lady friend of his so she would "train" him. Since I didn't own a cage and I had just moved in that sounded like a good idea, and I am no expert and I was afraid of making any mistakes. I will be receiving this bird around the 22nd or 30th of this month. So I will be buying food, toys and other necessary items so I can take good care of this bird. I do have a few questions regarding how it looks and the way this caretaker has been treating the bird, perhaps I am being paranoid, but I'd love to talk to someone with more experience who isn't biased. Please let me know

Welcome!
Things to know:

You can't use scented products or chemicals/fumes in your home (even things that smell nice to us(smoke, perfumes, air freshener, standard cleaners, vaping, burning food, incense, cigs, glue, paint, window sealing kits, polishes, aerosol sprays etc can harm your bird's sensitive respiratory system (which is dif from mammals'). Using products that heat or are heated which contain Teflon/PTFE/PFCs = very very dangerous. These off-gas and can kill a bird in under 5 minutes. Teflon/PTFE/PFOA/PFCs are most commonly found in the kitchen (pots, pans, cookie sheets, drip trays, air fryers, popcorn poppers, baking mats, crock pots, toasters, toaster ovens, popcorn poppers, waffle irons, electric skillets etc. They can also be found in space-heaters, curling irons, blow-dryers, straighteners, heat lamps, heat guns, irons, ironing board covers etc. These fumes have killed birds through closed doors and on separate floors of a home, so you should replace your cookware with stainless steel, cast iron or ceramic. You may be thinking-- well, I have used them before and my bird is fine, but they kill very inconsistently and it depends on what you are cooking, the age of the pot/pan, the specific bird etc. There was a member who lost many of her birds from a pan she had literally used for years...then one day, her husband cooked an egg (without burning or overheating) and many of them died, while the rest showed signs of respiratory distress.
You will need an avian-safe cleaner to use within your home (both on the bird cage, but also, around the house). Again, chemical cleaners cannot be used in the home unless avian safe. F10 SC (the yellow/clear concentrate) is a great, avian-safe disinfectant. Other (less effective) options include products such as "poop-off", white vinegar + water, grapefruit seed extract + water, baking soda etc. Peroxide is also fairly safe for disinfecting places like your bathroom, but you do not want your bird to come into contact with it.

Some foods are toxic to them--avocado, coffee (even decaf), caffeine, rhubarb, alcohol, onions/garlic/leeks/chives, mushrooms etc. Salt is also very bad for them, as is most human food. They love it, but it's not healthy.

They should not just eat seed--you will want to feed lots of washed fresh vegetables. Fruit is fine in moderation, but too much can lead to obesity and behavioral issues due to sugar. I feed my bird a mix of high-quality seed (no sunflowers, no peanuts) and pellets (in addition to fruit/veg). ECCLECTUS PARROTS SHOULD NOT EAT PELLETS. Fruit pits are toxic, as are apple seeds. Corn cob and certain nut shells (if swallowed in big pieces) can cause blockages, so you should be very cautious if you give your bird nuts in the shell. Peanuts can harbor aspergillosis, and should be avoided altogether (even they you often see them marketed towards parrots).

It is important to make sure that your bird's toys and cage are made of safe metals. Stainless steel is safest. They can get metal poisoning from playing with or mouthing objects made of unsafe metals.
They need a set amount of sleep each night (10 hours on a schedule) and the largest cage you can manage with lots of different perches. You want to avoid the totally smooth/round ones as they can lead to a condition called bumblefoot. Never place a cage near drafts and never allow cool air to blow on a bird. They are sensitive to drafts and any temperature shift greater than 10 degrees can cause a shock to their system.

They need lots of safe toys and safe wood to chew. Not all wood is safe, so don't just assume you can give them any kind you want. Pressure blasted or chemically treated wood (e.g., lumber and many other types of wood from the hardware contains toxic chemicals or are cut from trees that are naturally toxic.
They hide illness and so you have to watch them to make sure they are eating normally and pooping normally etc. You should try to find an avian vet (certified avian) if at all possible and take your bird AT LEAST 1 x yearly for an exam. An avian vet is NOT the same as an exotics vet who sees birds--- so if a certified avian vet is available within a few hours of where you live, you will want to set up care.
All parrots can easily confuse the relationship with their human for a sexual one. You don't want this to happen, even though it seems sweet at first. Stick to petting on the head and neck only (the rest is sexual) and do not allow your bird to play in shadowy places, like boxes or under furniture, as these spaces are similar nesting sites and are hormonal triggers. NO SNUGGLE HUTS/TENTS!

Food and water should be replaced daily--- wash the containers daily. Never leave wet food out for more than a few hours (as it can lead to bacterial growth). Never try to medicate a bird via drinking water and never add vitamins to water. Vitamins can be over-dosed easily and harm a bird. Plus, when you add things to water, it makes it impossible to know how much they have gotten and it also encourages bacterial growth. Sometimes it can prevent them from drinking adequately if they don't like the flavor of whatever it is you added. Citrus and fruits high in vitamin C should be given in extreme moderation because they can cause "Iron Storage Disease" (for a cockatoo, 1 small tangerine slice 1-2 times a week was okay, according to my vet).

These birds have the intelligence of 3-4-year-old human, but they are wild animals (not domesticated like dogs). This means that they see the world (and humans) in a very unique way and so you must learn about their behavior in order to prevent problems (screaming, plucking etc). They need lots of time out of their cage daily and a lot of interaction (at least a few hours-no fewer than 3-4 daily). At the same time, you don't want to spend TOO much time with a bird of they will become overly dependent and not know what to do with themselves when you go to work etc.

Finally, baby birds are ALWAYS sweet compared to adult birds. When your bird hits puberty, expect that it will exhibit some annoying and problematic behaviors (much like a teen). A through knowledge of behavior and setting expectations at an early age will make your life easier when that time comes, but do prepare yourself and expect that things will not always be so smooth-sailing. Think about a baby human compared to a teen...
Here is an excerpt from another post (which you may want to reference when shopping/ calling about Teflon:
The most insidious is the Teflon/ptfe/pfoa/pfcs because you have to call the company to verify that anything that heats or is intended to be heated does not contain these substances ("PTFE free" doesn't mean PFC free and so there are a lot of marketing gimmicks out there to make people buy what seems like healthier cook-ware, even though it still contains a version of the same chemicals). Also-- these chemicals can be woven into fabric, mixed into metal during the moulding process, applied as a powder, applied as a clear-coat, or mixed with a colored coating. You cannot assume that you will be able to identify them visually, so, when you call, you must provide all abbreviations and full names + spellings of each chemical compound (and then they usually give you "the run around" for a week or so IF they ever answer your questions at all---because sometimes it's a "trade secret"). It's all very sketchy and DuPont (manufacturer of Teflon) claims that off-gassing only occurs at really high temperatures, but there have been numerous documented/scientific and anecdotal reports of birds passing away at temperatures in the 300 F range (and again, it kills through closed doors and on different floors).
FYI- Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)
Perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA)
A perfluorinated compound (PFC)
Teflon (a common brand-name of non-stick cookware containing these chemicals)
10- 12 hours nightly for sleep, so if you get up at 6 and make a bunch of noise, you will wake the bird up (even if they are still covered). If they wake up at 6, bed should be between 6-8. You want to keep it around the same time if possible (because that's how it is in nature).
OH-- something I didn't mention in my last post-- stainless steel is really one of the only safe metals for them. Research the heck out of your cage and make sure that if it uses a powder-coating it is truly non-toxic. Birds can get metal poisoning from playing with sketchy toys (many made in China do not adhere to best practices) and just mouthing things like money, bolts, locks etc can cause toxic impacts...A man I know allowed his bird to play with un-used toothbrushes and (unbeknownst to him) there were small copper bits that held the bristles in place-- this nearly killed his bird even though the bird didn't actually swallow the pieces. Copper, zinc, nickel, some iron, lead etc are all toxic. Chicken wire and most screens= bad news.

Also- see this link (my replies, the links within my reply and the videos in this reply, but also those linked via my other links lol! ) http://www.parrotforums.com/cockatiels/90059-cockatiel-first-bird.html


How life changes with your first bird- http://www.parrotforums.com/general...change-after-getting-your-first-big-bird.html

SamDelgadoandRicardo said:

Hello! My name is Sam, I am currently living in Central America. I will be getting a IRN. I bought it off this breeder who recommended I give it to this lady friend of his so she would "train" him. Since I didn't own a cage and I had just moved in that sounded like a good idea, and I am no expert and I was afraid of making any mistakes. I will be receiving this bird around the 22nd or 30th of this month. So I will be buying food, toys and other necessary items so I can take good care of this bird. I do have a few questions regarding how it looks and the way this caretaker has been treating the bird, perhaps I am being paranoid, but I'd love to talk to someone with more experience who isn't biased. Please let me know

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You are NOT being paranoid-- this is a massive deal and it is not something that comes naturally. You are smart to care enough to ask, and asking/preparation is the difference between failure and success.


DO NOT let this breeder sell you an unweaned or partially weaned baby...That is huge.

Thank you so much, noodles! This is all great information that I will make sure to use. Especially that part with the cleaners, I had not considered that at all, but I will certainly do my best to find something more appropiate to use, I wouldn't want to lose my bird for mere ignorance. I do aim to give this bird the best life I can offer him/her.

That being said, I would like to show you a few more pictures (she also sent me a couple of videos, one in which someone who I can assume is this woman's mother is caressing the bird with her hand) she's doing this fully-body like, and I told her that I didn't thought that was okay, given their own nature. She's quite difficult to deal with. And then there's the other thing you mentioned, these birds being very playful during their "childhood". Every video that she has sent me so far shows this bird being dead quiet and still, *all the time*

I find that quite worrying. It makes me thing that she could have "gentled" the bird somehow. This keeps me awake at night. I might sound dramatic but I honestly cannot stop thinking about it. I understand that there is a size limit for attachments. I would like to show you these pictures and perhaps even the videos so you can tell me if I'm seeing this the wrong way. Please let me know.

SamDelgadoandRicardo said:

Thank you so much, noodles! This is all great information that I will make sure to use. Especially that part with the cleaners, I had not considered that at all, but I will certainly do my best to find something more appropiate to use, I wouldn't want to lose my bird for mere ignorance. I do aim to give this bird the best life I can offer him/her.

That being said, I would like to show you a few more pictures (she also sent me a couple of videos, one in which someone who I can assume is this woman's mother is caressing the bird with her hand) she's doing this fully-body like, and I told her that I didn't thought that was okay, given their own nature. She's quite difficult to deal with. And then there's the other thing you mentioned, these birds being very playful during their "childhood". Every video that she has sent me so far shows this bird being dead quiet and still, *all the time*

I find that quite worrying. It makes me thing that she could have "gentled" the bird somehow. This keeps me awake at night. I might sound dramatic but I honestly cannot stop thinking about it. I understand that there is a size limit for attachments. I would like to show you these pictures and perhaps even the videos so you can tell me if I'm seeing this the wrong way. Please let me know.

Click to expand...

A lot of the problems people face with parrots are hormonal-- that having been said, if this baby is super young, it can be okay, but you don't want to continue that kind of touching (you need time to back it off before sexual maturity-- not just cutting them off when they get there). With a SUPER young baby, some of the touching that isn't okay could be okay, but the trick is weaning them off of the expectation BEFORE they get their own hormones going-- if we are talking a weaning baby, that is a bit different.
When you get the bird, do not stroke down the back etc-- pet n the head and neck etc-- make that your standard.


Also know that IRNs will revert back to not wanting contact if you slack in terms of letting them out, interacting etc. I know that sounds obvious, but compared to other species, they are the least willing to retain trust after a small break-- so make sure that interaction and trust building happen daily. I am not saying to force contact, as that is a great way to break trust-- but even if you can't really get your bird to step up etc, you should try to find creative ways to let him/her out and get him/her back in without having to force/towel/destroy trust.



I would plan out of cage time so that the end of it coincides naturally with a shift in light-- birds roost at sunset (unless scared etc) so if you have the cage established as a safe place, the evening light will often prompt them to return (but you do have to be patient)

I understand, I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for letting me know. I'm trying to upload the images and videos to some sort of hosting site we could use so you can see what I mean, it's like it barely responds to any interaction, in the video with the old lady the bird does kinda look like it wants to move away, but all the other ones is just still, super quiet, barely moving.

It depends on so much-- one of my best friends has an IRN and literally just did a photo-shoot for Katy bird food lol! The thing is, her IRN is really good (because she puts so much into it) but even she found out after a few years that she had been mis-reading cues and scaring her bird (this was after the Katy shoot/an ongoing issue even then-despite having a very cooperative bird who would step up etc due to hours of attention and work daily). She always texts me updates and it was months after the photo-shoot that she realized that because her glasses were off in the morning, she couldn't properly read her bird's cues, which was leading to a bit of fear. The key is to follow their lead--- not wait for signs of aggression (as at that point, you have already harmed trust). It can be PAINFULLY SLOOOOOOW (for any parrot)-- so don't compare this to dogs or cats.


It's totally unique and you must be comited.


It's hard to say what is going on with that breeder and those very still birds etc-- it could be that they are young, just scared of some new people in general (normal), sick etc. Without knowing more, it's all conjecture. Just know that no matter what, a baby bird will change dramatically at puberty-- so don't anticipate that they will stay the same (even if they like you etc-- they may start to see you as sexual, trust you less, etc etc-- and that is not when you give up--- that is when you start at square one of trust building.


IRNs aren't known for enjoying a lot of touching in general- but they are just as smart (just have to keep things more interaction based if you can't pet-- which is honestly good in many respects because a major problem for the species that like touching is that it tends to end up confusing the human-bird relationship and OFTEN leads to hormones/sexual/aggressive behavior). That is not to say you cannot train one to be touched (within reason) but don't expect a bird that "cuddles" and if you have any bird that "cuddles" be wary because over-indulging that sort of thing triggers hormones, sexual behavior etc etc.

Hello, I have found a hosting site that allowed me to upload these videos, please take a look whenever possible, hopefully I am wrong and the bird is developing just fine.

Oh, btw, these are from about 2 weeks back or so, she contacted me a few days ago and told me they were beginning to eat solid fruits and such.

(I know this isn't conventional, again, I am sorry.)

https://streamable.com/ve5pq8
https://streamable.com/xmh7oh
https://streamable.com/ix46gy

Let me show you how to post from your computer-- click your name in the upper-right-hand corner...From there, find albums (also in the right hand panel)
Click "show all albums"--look at bottom left of screen and hit "add album"
Make a title etc...click upload pictures and browse to get them off your computer. Copy the BB code or whatever it says below the uploaded image...Go to a thread you want to post the image on and click the mountain icon above the message bar (mountain and sun)-- past that code that you copied into the mountain URL and submit.



I am cautious about clicking unknown links just because you never know! I believe you-- It took me time to figure this out.


The other benefit to doing it this was is that is doesn't have a cap in terms of memory etc.

Oh and yeah I mean I am not expecting the bird to be as "cuddly" as a dog or even a cat, it's just that every single video I have seen on these birds has them you know, making sounds, vocalizing, moving, jumping, looking around. Of course I know that not all birds are alike and these ones in particular are smart enough to have their own personality, is just that well, I don't trust that lady all that much. IMO she lacks any real interest, I am also taking in consideration that videos taken from say, tiktok can be misleading. Sorry if I am reading too much into this, I just really want to do as best as I can.

Oh, alright. I'll try that in a sec, one moment.

SamDelgadoandRicardo said:

Oh and yeah I mean I am not expecting the bird to be as "cuddly" as a dog or even a cat, it's just that every single video I have seen on these birds has them you know, making sounds, vocalizing, moving, jumping, looking around. Of course I know that not all birds are alike and these ones in particular are smart enough to have their own personality, is just that well, I don't trust that lady all that much. IMO she lacks any real interest, I am also taking in consideration that videos taken from say, tiktok can be misleading. Sorry if I am reading too much into this, I just really want to do as best as I can.

Click to expand...

Again- you are not reading too much into this. I wish more people would read into it the way you are because birds just are so much more work than people anticipate and you have to adjust your life to fit them (not the other way around). I am glad you are here and I am glad you are thinking!!! You shouldn't feel ashamed for what should be a basic prerequisite to parrot "ownership" (self- analysis, introspection, over-analyzing etc) With any other pet, it would be over-analyzing, but with parrots it is essential.


TikTok is the worst (as it often shows babies or sexual birds) BUT you aren't wrong to question an overly quiet or reserved bird. They hide illness, so very minor things can be serious to them-- at the same time, an unfamiliar or scared bird may show signs of fear, which may also look like quietness etc.

It's giving me an error prompt, apparently only images are allowed and they need to be a specific size.

Hmm.. it should work....were you able to upload to an album at least?
you could try using Paint or something to re-size, but even with large images, I haven't run into this issue.

One sec, let me give it a shot

Okay, so I did what you recommended, I got the most recent picture resized, the albums don't allow videos, apparently. According to that lady, the bird looks like that because she had just finished feeding the bird some mash mix she does. Do you notice anything odd? Please let me know.