African Grey found in China, need documentation

sarahkelly · Mar 14, 2019

I found an African Grey parrot outside in some trees in Shenzhen, China almost a year ago. It has a leg band, which apparently they do not do in China. And she (I think it's a she) said "hello" in English. I assume she was brought in by a foreign family and either escaped or was abandoned (common pet problem here). A search in the neighborhood and on expat forums has yielded no results in finding her original owners. After almost a year the bird is part of our family and we really want to keep her. Now we are in a position where we want to move out of China. But we have no paperwork on the bird, no CITES certificate. China will not issue any such certificate for a parrot, as they only consider dogs and cats as pets. So far all communication with local agencies has had the same result: turn over the bird to wildlife authorities. We are very reluctant to do this in a country that is not famed for its animal rights, and not native to African Grey parrots. Any suggestions anybody has to either get her out, or re-home her to a good home in China are welcome! We are moving to Thailand, still within Asia, if that helps in the suggestions.

LeaKP · Mar 14, 2019

sarahkelly said:
I found an African Grey parrot outside in some trees in Shenzhen, China almost a year ago. It has a leg band, which apparently they do not do in China. And she (I think it's a she) said "hello" in English. I assume she was brought in by a foreign family and either escaped or was abandoned (common pet problem here). A search in the neighborhood and on expat forums has yielded no results in finding her original owners. After almost a year the bird is part of our family and we really want to keep her. Now we are in a position where we want to move out of China. But we have no paperwork on the bird, no CITES certificate. China will not issue any such certificate for a parrot, as they only consider dogs and cats as pets. So far all communication with local agencies has had the same result: turn over the bird to wildlife authorities. We are very reluctant to do this in a country that is not famed for its animal rights, and not native to African Grey parrots. Any suggestions anybody has to either get her out, or re-home her to a good home in China are welcome! We are moving to Thailand, still within Asia, if that helps in the suggestions.

So very sorry for you! This is difficult but I’ve learned in my life overseas to keep knocking on doors. Please keep trying, out feelers out everywhere. Hoping for the best!!!

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charmedbyekkie · Mar 14, 2019

I'd honestly recommend hiring a pet relocation company. They cost a ton (I've heard of people doing an Singapore to USA trip for USD 2,000 for a conure), but they handle most of the process for you.

Apart from that, it looks like the main regulations for greys are to have either a closed leg band or other identification. For Thailand in particular, it looks like they typically ask for a microchip for mammalian pets and to get an import permit from their authority.

That being said, if you consider her part of your family, I'd really recommend a pet travel company, like those listed here.

Cardinal · Mar 14, 2019

I am from India and I can understand and empathize. There is a need for developing a parrot helpline in every major city of the world . Since African greys have now become CITES 1 species, it may require more paperwork than say a cockatiel.

ChristaNL · Mar 14, 2019

I am so sorry, but I think you are likely toast.

African Greys are Cites-1 birds now (could even be the reason she was let go in the first place) so there is a LOT of paperwork and you have to prove previous ownership before 2 jan 2017.
(photoos with a data/ most cellphones will add a day+time automatically anyway/, vetbills anything ...)
Been there, done that with mine it is a pain in the baconregion.

If you can do that...you can apply for the right papers and then you can just go from there. That would be great.
(CITES-paperwork is valid worldwide, so if you can get those you are just traveling with a pet.)

The fact that the bird has a legband helps - at long as it is a closed one it means she/he was bred in captivity... and if you are very lucky you can retrace it to the breeder. (All the good ones keep records.)

On the other hand...you are in China, I am sure with enough "incentive" you can find a vet that will provide the "propper" paperwork.

Scott · Mar 14, 2019

Welcome, I am sorry to hear of your dilemma. I would pursue a dual track: Wading through the bureaucracy in hopes of finding a solution, and finding her a good home.

Cardinal · Mar 14, 2019

Also try to get in touch with international Parrot NGOs like the World Parrot Trust . They may be able to help you get in touch with the right people.

SailBoat · Mar 15, 2019

Flying with your Grey involves the Airlines and also requires that you want to contact them. And, in thinking of that point, they will also be a great source for what you will need to have regarding paperwork prior to arriving at the airport.

Excellent recommendations above and as stated 'Family Pet' is a very important statement to keep using.

LeaKP · Mar 15, 2019

Hoping for the best pls keep us posted.

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ChristaNL · Mar 15, 2019

You may know I am not very tactfull, but since we get a few handfulls of PhD-students from China each year who supposedly have finished university at a high level (mostly beta studies) but more or less have the educational level of first/maybe second year regular students (18/ 19 y. old) in NL...
So if it is that easy to "buy" a diploma from a serious university, obtaining some "evidence" that allows you to legally register your bird with the CITESburo should be a piece of cake.

SailBoat · Mar 15, 2019

And clearly, no one would recommend any activity that would be unlawful. But, only within the norms of a countries paperwork process.

dhraiden · Mar 15, 2019

Ha! There is, at the end of it all, simply doing what is right...hope to see positive updates. GL!

ChristaNL · Mar 15, 2019

I was just saying "when in Rome...."

Cardinal · Mar 15, 2019

ChristaNL said:
I was just saying "when in Rome...."

I understand where you are coming from . If something needs to be done to save a defenceless and innocent Parrot and it does not harm any other Person or importantly the Wildlife/ecosystem , there is no harm in getting it done.

But this should be more an exception than the rule.

sarahkelly · Mar 17, 2019

I have asked every pet relocation company I can find in my city in China (Shenzhen), and across the border in Hong Kong, and they all say the same thing: Not without a CITES certificate. Contacting the CITES organization China side, all they said was "Tell us your address, we will come to take the bird away, you can't have it". Hong Kong side was much more sympathetic, and simply suggested to find a good new home for it when we move away.

LeaKP · Mar 17, 2019

sarahkelly said:
I have asked every pet relocation company I can find in my city in China (Shenzhen), and across the border in Hong Kong, and they all say the same thing: Not without a CITES certificate. Contacting the CITES organization China side, all they said was "Tell us your address, we will come to take the bird away, you can't have it". Hong Kong side was much more sympathetic, and simply suggested to find a good new home for it when we move away.

This is so hard for everyone. Thinking of you all.

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ChristaNL · Mar 17, 2019

Just go through the archives, find a vet-bill dated dec 2016 (or earlier) with your name and the birds bandnumber on it and the CITESpeople are satisfied.
(If you've lost them, maybe your vet can give you a copy from his files.)

Not sure how much time you have left before the big move?
It took them here about 3-4 months to process because a lot of people were applying at the same time.

Btw you will have to choose what to put on the form- if it is for travelling, exhibits, sales or breeding (you can choose more than one option/ you can have them all, just make sure travel is one of them

)

sarahkelly · Mar 19, 2019

ChristaNL said:
Just go through the archives, find a vet-bill dated dec 2016 (or earlier) with your name and the birds bandnumber on it and the CITESpeople are satisfied.
(If you've lost them, maybe your vet can give you a copy from his files.)

Not sure how much time you have left before the big move?
It took them here about 3-4 months to process because a lot of people were applying at the same time.

Btw you will have to choose what to put on the form- if it is for travelling, exhibits, sales or breeding (you can choose more than one option/ you can have them all, just make sure travel is one of them )

Hmm, I like the way you think. Good suggestions, thank you!

LordTriggs · Mar 19, 2019

could you possibly try and contact a CITES office in the western side of the world? Explain to them the situation and how CITES where you are simply threatened confiscating your bird instead of offering help. Surely this isn't the first time someone has found a bird and needed to get documents for them

ChristaNL · Mar 19, 2019

actually the people @ CITES here are just as bad... the problem is: it *is* the law: if you are in possesion of a bird that requires documentation and you cannot show that ... the bird will be confiscated and (hopefully) brought to a place where it will be cared for etc.etc. but you will not get it back.

(I was explaining this to another forummember before I got banned)

The botanical gardens get a lot of confiscated plants that way...sometimes for safekeeping (keeping alive and out of the buyers-market) while the paperwork is being "processed/ found/ reapplied" sometimes to "keep" (when they are obviously smuggled in and/or illegally gathered and endangered species) -> find a place where they can keep living.

Just like most Zoo's have a large quarantine-section behind the normal open-to-the-public-scene.
If smugglers get caught it is all hands on deck and keep alive what you can!

-

OP has one very strong point going for them: the closed legband.
Thats makes a pretty strong case this bird was not poached but bred in captivity.
(Still no luck finding the breeder? Because the breeder may also be willing to provide more paperwork for them to make the CITES-people happy.)

African Grey found in China, need documentation

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Blue the lost

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