Nestbox Required and Foodie question!

TweeterKat

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Hi! Me again!

I have been reading quite abit about nesting boxes and am abit confused as to whether my pair should have one or not. I was told that they are about a year old and my female has been displaying very strong nesting behaviour (also doesn't help with her nipping issues!) Some sites say do not put one in if you dont want babies, others say its a good thing for rest. I also want to add that I found an egg on the bottom of the cage this morning!! I guess they are comfortable in their new home? (I have only had them for 5 days!)

I am uncomfortable with the idea of babies this soon after getting them - I am a newbie lovie mum afterall! So, what do I do to make them more comfortable? They currently perch on the top of their swing at night, so hoping a box would help with that too.... ??? :confused:

And the previous owner said they didn't like fresh fruits/veggies, so everyday I have been putting something fresh in there and leaving it, hoping they might try it! Is this correct? (just put it in each day and wait for them to eventually give it a go?) I have a list of safe foodies for them and I stick to it. Any ideas of something that might eventually tempt them? And should I get a pellet diet instead of the seeds they came with??? Yikes! So much to ask! LOL

Sorry to pack so much into one post, but I am floundering abit here trying to give them an enriched life - I know they are smart little birds! They are currently enjoying the empty kleenix box I put in there to explore! :)
 

SilverSage

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No box!!! Contrary to popular belief, birds do not need a nest box to sleep in, and you do not want to encourage breeding if you are not committed to producing high quality pets, which believe it or not takes an awful lot more than just keeping babies tame and physically healthy. If they are laying that is a bad sign, not a good one. Research how to discourage that in your particular species. I have never had a lovie, but for budgies and tiles you would do things like the following

Cover the cage and arrange your schedule in such a way that they get a ful 12 hours of dark and quiet every night. It might take them a little while to adjust, but long days = spring = time to make babies!!!

Put them in a bright place. Darkness, even just dimly lit areas, can stimulate breeding.

Restrict starchy, mushy foods like bananas, don't feed eggs or egg food during this time.

Be sure you are supplementing calcium for your hen! Even if you don't want her to lay eggs, they are still taking a toll on her body.

Remove the eggs. If she continues to lay beyond whatever the norm is for lovies, see a vet. Chronic egg laying is a disorder, not a sign she should be bred.

Remove all small, dark areas like nest boxes, snuggle hugs, shoes, anything, from her every day life.

Best of luck!
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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So I have done everything I feel I can possibly do to discourage breeding in these two:

I have them in a brighter place in my home, I feel the morning sun is good for them anyways. I cover them each night and try to keep it quiet (can't do that completely, I have three kids!) I removed the happy hut and am im the process of making a flat fuzzy perch for them instead (DallyTsuka's suggestion as an alternative) and lastly I have a grate in the bottom of cage to discourage shredding, but to be honest that parts not working so wel, Peaches still shreds what she can get her beak on!

Despite this, I have caught them numerous times actively mating. I am concerned that they are too far gone to prevent a clutch... will she lay regardless of no nestbox? I have found info stating that despite the mating she may not lay at all anyways, but I don't want her eggbound for holding it in due to no box. I have upgraded their diet and provided a cuttlebone since getting them.

It's also worth mentioning that she has returned to her nasty self as well, despite my best efforts (one step forward, two steps back with these two!) So much so that I am considering clipping their wings for my safety. She lands on me and starts to go for my face now as well as my hands. o_O. So frustrated!!
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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I am sure her attitude is hormone related, but OMG, she has the worst PMS EVER!!!!? :p
 

weco

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I think you're right about the wing clipping.....and if you're going to do it yourself, read all of the clipping articles you can and watch the YouTube clips on clipping...since she is actively attacking you, I would clip at least six feathers on each wing...if that doesn't slow her down, take a couple more.....

If they've been actively mating, she's not going to hold anything that will cause egg-binding.....that occurs from improper diet, creating too many eggs during the laying session, too low humidity in the house and/or a hen that's too young, though yours seems to be old enough to make her own decisions.....egg-binding is not like constipation!

With the rest of what's been mentioned I'll agree, except the covering the cage...that will give the birds privacy...privacy & darkness promotes nesting.....

Good luck.....
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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Thanks very much! I only cover at night for bed, and I know they perch and sleep. Well, pretty sure! LOL! I have one BIG problem with clipping her wings: Keeping her contained!! LOLOLOL!! I tried the "burritto" on her once and not only earned myself a few good nips, she wiggled out as well! Any other way? I will definitely look at videos and articles well before I do the wings - and instill my hubby's help as well to hold. I have worked in a few Petstores with birdie "experts" (I also knew them personally, they owned birds too) and have seen the clips done before. Not unlike nail trimming - but do not hit a blood feather!! That's BAD, BAD, BAD!! :( This will definitely be a pre-meditated clipping.

Being that my male is ok (he hides behind his woman!) should I do him as well?
 

weco

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Thanks very much! I only cover at night for bed, and I know they perch and sleep. Well, pretty sure! LOL! I have one BIG problem with clipping her wings: Keeping her contained!! LOLOLOL!! I tried the "burritto" on her once and not only earned myself a few good nips, she wiggled out as well! Any other way? I will definitely look at videos and articles well before I do the wings - and instill my hubby's help as well to hold. I have worked in a few Petstores with birdie "experts" (I also knew them personally, they owned birds too) and have seen the clips done before. Not unlike nail trimming - but do not hit a blood feather!! That's BAD, BAD, BAD!! :( This will definitely be a pre-meditated clipping.

Being that my male is ok (he hides behind his woman!) should I do him as well?

TK, I posted a pic, to another thread, about holding a small conure or similar sized bird, it might help you with your clipping http://www.parrotforums.com/general...eencheek-s-feathers-grow-back.html#post429250

If you do clip him, it might change the hierarchy of that pair...he'll be able to get away from her more easily ! ! !
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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Thanks for the info. I will definitely look into it abit more before I do anything. My husband is home for the nest week and will work with them as well... he seems to have good luck (so far) with them. Will keep y'all updated!
 

SilverSage

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If you do find a good way to hold her, and I tend to just use my hands and take the bites, but not everyone is comfortable with that, I highly suggest progressive trimming. The last thing you want to do to your bird is hurt her or damage her confidence, even though it might seem like that is a good thing. By clipping only a couple of feathers on each side, then waiting a few days, doing a couple more, etc, you give her body a chance to adjust, as well as her mind. Birds can take a little while to understand and adjust to a clip, and in that time they can hurt themselves, and completely lose confidence in the process of flying making them. Ore likely to be fearful, and a fearful clipped bird is much more likely to be aggressive. I cannot state how highly I recommend progressive clipping as opposed to taking away her ability to fly all at once. It is less convenient but far healthier and safer for the bird.

Also, egg binding is generally due to weak muscles in the hen, or a soft shell in the egg. These conditions can be caused by many things (studies actually show that having a flight end hen drastically reduces the chances of egg binding, but as you are not encouraging breeding, and your family seems to be in danger from the little spark plug, it does sound like clipping is a good idea here) such as the wrong humidity, nutrition deficiencies, stress overload on the hen's body, etc, but it will not be caused by holding eggs in. If the eggs form, she will lay them :)

If you do end up with eggs on the cage floor, you have a couple of options. The first is the one I suggest most, it is not as easy but it is more likely to work in my experience, and healthiest/least risky to your hen.

1) right now, before she lays anything, find artificial eggs online. Not craft eggs, but eggs sold just fear the purpose of placing under hens, often when eggs are being pulled for artificial incubation (a practice I do not support except in extreme cases). If you can't find them for lovies you can probably find them for English budgies and that should work in a pinch. They are not very spendy and are well worth it. Keep me on hand, if she starts to lay, replace each egg as it is laid with a fake egg, and dispose of the egg she laid. Be sure to find a way not to let her see you do this, even if that means showing her into the corner of the cage with a cloth. The result would most likely be that when the eggs don't hatch, she moves on with life. If she does NOT move on with life, you need to take her to the vet, or at least consult with an avian vet.

The second option is easier, but riskier to the bird because it is less likely to work. That is to simply remove the eggs, either one by one, or once she has finished laying, and. Not provide a replacement egg. The danger with this is that it is much more likely that she will continue laying. I once dealt with a chronic laying a cockatiel when I was a kid, she laid over 40 eggs in one year, and even though we were eventually able to stop her, I believe that led to her early death at 5 years old.

It is important to note that chronic laying is a disorder. Unfortunately many people look at it as a sign that "she was made to be a mother" or spew thing to that effect, but i reality it is a flaw, a problem, and a danger not only to that. Rid but all her offspring. Your dont seem to be doing that right now, just being nesty and normal, but I just felt I needed to mention it. I applaud you for being so responsible in trying to prevent a clutch. I wish more people in my area were more like you. Instead we have people breeding lovies by the hundred in aviaries for years, and then trying to sell the wild inbred babies, often giving them away by the dozens if not the hundreds "free when you buy the cage."
 

SilverSage

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Also I just read my first post, please forgive the typos, I struggle to type on the iPad.
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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Wow! Ok.... liking the progressive clipping thing. I just want to restrict her freedom, not take it completely. (Like hair they will grow back!)

The idea of babies is great in theory, bur terrifying to me as a reality... I tend to stress and I dont want to worry about finding homes for them, and as parent raised babies they r less desirable. Cuz I dont want to raise them! Eeeek! Which is another reason -- if she abandons them or they dont thrive I will be unable to care for them (time and experience lacking) and then bring on the guilt if they die! :(
I will look for the fake eggs and go route #1 if I need too. *fingers crossed* I dont!
Thanks to all of you, this is very helpful info
 

SilverSage

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It can be intimidating and I never suggest people allow their pets to breed if they are not committed to being excellent breeders. Your birds are lucky to have such a dedicated owner, and I can't wait to hear more about their progress :)
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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**UPDATE**

Looks like we R gonna have EGGS!! AAARG! Peaches is an absolute Die-Hard right now to have babies.... She has been non-stop nest building in the bottom corner, mating, mating, mating and now her vent is swollen and she's feather plucking around it (prepping for laying?). So, I believe we are on our way whether I like it or not!!

I am on my way to get some fake eggs today (hoping I can find something suitable at a petstore!!) since clearly I am on a time constraint! I am gonna let her go thru this cycle and incubate the "eggs" til she's satisfied they are unviable and hope for the best. If anyone has anymore advice it would be much appreciated (even encouragement that I am doing a good job??!!) LOL!
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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I am unable to find anything in store, so contacted a local breeder (the one and only that I could find!) to see if I can purchase some dummy eggs from them... fingers crossed!!
 

SilverSage

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You will most likely have to purchase them online, as hey are not commonly sold in retail stores. Best of luck!
 
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TweeterKat

TweeterKat

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Yes, I found a site called "dummyeggs" Would this be the best place to buy or a different site? Even eBay? - I know I need lovebird ones, no worry there!!
 

SilverSage

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I have to admit I got mine second hand so I am not sure. As long as they are for that purpose and not toys or decorations of any sort, that should be fine :)
 
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TweeterKat

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UPDATE::

Peaches laid an egg last night. Only just discovered it now as she didnt do it in the open box I provided for her, she did it in the mess of shavings in the opposite corner! I cleaned the cage just now and out it rolled!! OOOPS! So, an update, I FOUND THE DUMMY EGGS!! YAYAYAYAY!

I found a lovebird breeder here in my city and she directed me to an aviary abit out of town who has them stocked. I also broke down and bought a nestbox!! I would much rather have the eggs contained where I can find them quickly and easily.
I love y'all and your advice has been spot on, but I have to admit, it was nice to speak to someone on the phone! LOL
She also offered to show me/do the wing clipping when the time comes. I am holding off til the nesting thing is done, then I am gonna clip and try to befriend my wild little girl!!

Peaches has had the box for 10 mins and already seems soo much more relaxed and focused. It was hard for me to see her yesterday since I could clearly see she wanted to lay and wasnt comfortable doing so (I saw her in the open box a few times giving it a go, then saying ****-it!) She obviously waited til I covered the cage last nite, as she looked much better this morning! PHEW!
 

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