In Need of Help on a Complete Behavioral Change

KalieLovesBirds

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Jul 30, 2015
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Ruby- 5 y.o. CAG;
Pharaoh, Emmy, and Sky-Quakers of unknown age;
Maui- 8 m.o. Catalina macaw
Alright so I thought that my BG mac had been settling in quite well. He had been excited to come to the front of the cage to step up on command to come out and sit on my arm or his perch.

The past few days he has taken a complete 180. He will no longer come to the front of the cage and will refuse to come over to my arm to step up on command. He will only come out if you are away from the cage and he can climb out on his own, and even then he will climb to the top of the cage and not only squawk, but scream. He has never lunged at me before this week and now will do it and I can tell just by his body language and pinning of his eyes he is out for blood when he comes at me. He has become extremely aggressive towards not only me, but anyone else who was once able to handle him.

If your in the room he squawks and if you leave the room he squawks. He does not want to be in his cage but he does not want to be out either and it is frustrating because it's upsetting to see him upset.

Prior to this week I was able to get him out just fine and he would sit on my arm or leg and would do 'parrot talk' to both me and along to the radio. And out of no where this new behavior came about. Nothing has changed in diet or interaction with him.

I am in need of help.
 
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JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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It's entirely possible he's having a hormonal 'outbreak'. Males can become quite aggressive during this time, unfortunately. I'd wait a week or so, and see if he gets over it. In the meantime, I'd exercise caution. A hormonal big mac is no joke.

Is it possible for you to change his cage around a bit? Re-arrange the toys, and/or add a few new ones? That 'may' peek his interest more than his testosterone (IF that's what's truly causing this right now). :)
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
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San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Sounds like a fairly extreme example of the testing phase... Your macaw is trying to see what he can get away with.

Enforce the boundaries, and follow the protocols on screaming and no biting.

Meet my friend "Mr. Towel" if you have to... Mr. Towel doesn't like it when you misbehave. (Simply prevent him from doing it by toweling.

Meet my friend Mr. Cage Cover. Mr. Cage Cover doesn't like it when you throw a fit and scream your head off. (Praise and uncover when he quiets down. This is sending a message, it's not punishment per se.)

When working with this bird use the two towels wrapped around your arm held in place by an ace bandage trick, under a heavy sweat shirt. Use a closed bent fist so he can't latch on to your hand when picking him up. Two fingers on the beak if he tries to latch on, with a firm no biting.

Go back to basics. Be firm. Step up. No biting. Behave.

And try to keep your sanity, and your interactions with him the same otherwise. Boundary setting is the tough time with young Macaws. Once you get through this, the behavior improves. IF YOU'RE NOT CONSISTENT WITH IT THE BEHAVIOR WON'T IMPROVE, AND MAY EVEN GET WORSE!
 
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KalieLovesBirds

KalieLovesBirds

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Jul 30, 2015
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Ruby- 5 y.o. CAG;
Pharaoh, Emmy, and Sky-Quakers of unknown age;
Maui- 8 m.o. Catalina macaw
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Thank you both! I was told he'd about 15 so I wasn't sure if it was a hormonal thing going on for him right now or if he's just trying to really test his limits or if it was a combination of both. He was molting a couple weeks ago so I don't know if maybe that's playing into this or not but you are kidding when you say a hormonal male Mac is no joke to mess around with.

I would love to cover the cage if I could to try resolve that problem but his cage is HUGE (46x36x78.25)

I have been doing the good ole toweling the arm underneath a heavy sweatshirt trick and making sure I don't overreact or really react period by flinching when he lunges. I will admit there's been two times where he caught me off guard and I flinched but caught myself and stopped.

When grabbing his beak when he goes to bite, is it top and bottom or on both sides?
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
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Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Top sides of the beak with a thumb and forefingers. High enough so that he can't grab hold. Cuz he's likely to try...

May be hormonal. For some reason I thought this bird was younger. That's why I ruled it out...
 
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KalieLovesBirds

KalieLovesBirds

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Jul 30, 2015
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Ruby- 5 y.o. CAG;
Pharaoh, Emmy, and Sky-Quakers of unknown age;
Maui- 8 m.o. Catalina macaw
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If it is a hormonal thing he's going through right now, what are some good things to do?
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
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Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
If he's acting up, I would just completely ignore him until he behaves.

If the throws a fit, cover him.

You just have to be firm, and enforce the boundaries.

I know you're upset, but you're also misbehaving... now I'm upset too. Wanna be on the receiving end of it?! I thought not.

Calm down. No biting. Behave. Good bird!
 
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KalieLovesBirds

KalieLovesBirds

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Ruby- 5 y.o. CAG;
Pharaoh, Emmy, and Sky-Quakers of unknown age;
Maui- 8 m.o. Catalina macaw
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Just thought I would give you guys an update. His behavior has improved slightly. He's still aggressive but it's not as bad as it was. It must be a hormonal thing that is finally starting to pass.

On a brighter note, he was out of the cage and climbed down to his stand I had put next to his door and he started to squawk so I left the room for him to calm down and all of a sudden it was dead quiet, and my immediate thought was a quiet bird is up to no good haha, so I walked back in the room to see what kind of mischief he was up to and come to find out he was trying to climb down the stand to come find me but got caught up about half way down where the trunk becomes too steep. When he saw me he climbed back up and got excited. Was a proud moment for me that he was finally trying to leave the stand and explore
 

JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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Thank you SO much for the update!!! :) Been wondering how things were going.

I would have loved to have seen your face when you caught him ready to go exploring. :D
 
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KalieLovesBirds

KalieLovesBirds

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Jul 30, 2015
69
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Parrots
Ruby- 5 y.o. CAG;
Pharaoh, Emmy, and Sky-Quakers of unknown age;
Maui- 8 m.o. Catalina macaw
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So... unfortunately things have not improved. I actually have to wrap a second towel around my arm along with the jacket in order to keep him from breaking skin since he managed to cause a mark on my arm with one towel wrapped around underneath the thick quilted jacket. He fights it to step up, while I remain calm and firm and force him to do so and will squawk profusely the moment anyone enters the room until they leave. I am at a loss as to what else to do and it is hard situation as this is not a healthy relationship.
 
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Surfincr

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Nov 13, 2013
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Ziggy (African Grey) and Elvis B&G
i've only been working with my B&G for a little under a year so it may not be ideal but what i have found works the best for mine is when i ask her to step up and she doesnt or tries to bite is she gets wrapped in a towel, picked up (usually from inside her cage) and placed on the floor with the towel on her for a couple seconds till she calms down (Lately she calms down as soon as she is a parrot burrito), then the towel comes off, but she stays on the floor. what usually follows is that birdie moment of "awe crap that didnt get what i wanted now i'm stuck on the floor" she sulks for a moment and walks up to me and lifts her foot to ask if i'll pick her up. which i do and spend some time with her to reinforce good bird gets good attention

usually the next day she's as sweet as can be
 

Minimaker

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GW Macaw-Sailor, Goffins Cockatoo Mako, GC Conure-Tazzy, Turquoise Conure Yuki, Budgies-Percy, Annabeth, Elsa
i've only been working with my B&G for a little under a year so it may not be ideal but what i have found works the best for mine is when i ask her to step up and she doesnt or tries to bite is she gets wrapped in a towel, picked up (usually from inside her cage) and placed on the floor with the towel on her for a couple seconds till she calms down (Lately she calms down as soon as she is a parrot burrito), then the towel comes off, but she stays on the floor. what usually follows is that birdie moment of "awe crap that didnt get what i wanted now i'm stuck on the floor" she sulks for a moment and walks up to me and lifts her foot to ask if i'll pick her up. which i do and spend some time with her to reinforce good bird gets good attention

usually the next day she's as sweet as can be

That sounds about right. We have a manzanita stick we used in the beginning with ours when she pulled the big tough bird act. If she refused to come out and bluffed hard we got the stick and got her out with that. On the floor she went, far away from her cage. This caused her to behave and step up on our hand. It sounds like you need to go back to basic training and start stick training again. Then step up, etc. Start all over again and work through it. Ours can be a pill when she wants to be, especially with people who visit the house. She's pretty good now with everyone living here, but it took six or seven months of working with her to get there. You might invest in some Good Bird inc training videos if you haven't already. Ebay has second hand copies for a reasonable price. If you can't cover the cage from the top, buy some stainless steel clips on ebay if you can't find them anywhere else and clip a sheet around the front and sides of the cage. The top won't be covered but the sensory deprivation of the rest of the view being obstructed might help calm the screaming. Consider it a birdy time out. Not all day of course, but if the screaming won't stop create a safe closed in space for him when he really gets going. Take it off after awhile of him being calm again.
 

Allee

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Oct 27, 2013
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Texas
Parrots
U2-Poppy(Poppy lives with her new mommy, Misty now) CAG-Jack, YNA, Bingo, Budgie-Piper, Cockatiel-Sweet Pea Quakers-Harry, Sammy, Wilson ***Zeke (quaker) Twinkle (budgie) forever in our hearts
I was wondering how things are going with your B&G? Any updates?
 

Birdman666

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Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
So... unfortunately things have not improved. I actually have to wrap a second towel around my arm along with the jacket in order to keep him from breaking skin since he managed to cause a mark on my arm with one towel wrapped around underneath the thick quilted jacket. He fights it to step up, while I remain calm and firm and force him to do so and will squawk profusely the moment anyone enters the room until they leave. I am at a loss as to what else to do and it is hard situation as this is not a healthy relationship.

It's so hard to advise you without actually being there and seeing the dynamic and the bird's body posturing, etc. when he's being "evil."

I'm pretty good with evil big macs, but usually they respond to my boundaries. The freak out around strangers puzzles me...

Sounds like some sort of fear reaction?! Fear biting?

Is this bird super phobic?
 

michaell089

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Never ever force your bird to step up or do something he doesn't want to do. Birds are like persons. If you don't want to do something and somebody is forcing you to you'll start hating him too. You have to show birds boundaries but if you're already in this stage never force those boundaries. Let the boundaries flow in a bit. Guide him to the boundaries instead of immediately forcing things on him.

Use clicker training. This helps improving your bond with the bird and use positive reinforcement trough treats. Not all birds care about nice words or a pat on the head but all birds do anything for treats. Also the clicker becomes a reinforcer too because it marks the moment the bird did something good.

Find a good training guide like the one from Barbara Heidenreich or any other video you can find on youtube or post on this forum about positive reinforcement training. And really start by not forcing your bird to do anything it doesn't want to. I know it is hard to do sometimes but you have to accept the fact that like you it just sometimes doesn't want to do things.

Watch his body language. If you're already familiar with his body language so you can tell when he doesn't want to do something use that to your advantage. If you want him to step up use the clicker training. Its really easy to do and I promise you that you will make him step up voluntarily and with pleasure when you start doing this training.

As for the screaming.. thats a hard one once the bird has learned to scream for attention. Try to completely ignore it like Birdman said. However the covering part does not always work with all birds. I have seen many birds that either get nervous, stressed and even scared when covered which can hurt the trust bond with your bird. Screaming is mostly for attention so if he screams just don't react in any way. Birds can see even the slightest reaction of the human when he screams so keep that in mind.

Screaming can also be triggered by downright boredom. If you haven't already, teach him to forage. Foraging is extremely important for birds to keep their minds busy.. I can never tell people this enough. They do this in the wild for 1-2/3 of the day.. Its what keeps their wild mind busy and challenged. You can not make a bird really happy by just giving him his food in a bowl everyday. Make him work for it! I have a good training video on dvd about captive foraging that I can upload for you if you would like that. Google also has some good guides on how to teach a bird to forage.

So start positive reinforcement training with your bird. This can help you set boundaries without forcing those boundaries on him. It will build your trust/respect bond and you can even teach him numerous tricks which he will love to do for you to get a treat. Teach foraging to keep his mind occupied so he won't scream your mind into oblivion and stop forcing your bird to step up and do other things.

Respect your bird and he will start to respect you :) Don't give up after a week. I'm not sure how damaged your bond is right now but usually you will see immediate improvement within days even and major improvements within a month, I promise! And please lose the towels. I know its great for lessen the pain of the bite but the goal is not to get bit at all and let him step up when he is ready to step up for you! this can take a few days with clicker training.. sometimes you will even see result the very same day but give it a couple of days. If you need to get the bird somewhere or back in the cage, use the clicker/stick training for that. He will learn this in minutes if done right!

Best of luck and if you have any questions or if you want me to upload that dvd for you send me a PM or post something here :)
 
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Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Never ever force your bird to step up or do something he doesn't want to do. Birds are like persons. If you don't want to do something and somebody is forcing you to you'll start hating him too. You have to show birds boundaries but if you're already in this stage never force those boundaries. Let the boundaries flow in a bit. Guide him to the boundaries instead of immediately forcing things on him.

I PRETTY STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THIS. BOUNDARY SETTING WITH A MACAW NEEDS TO BE FIRM. IF YOU DON'T PASS THE "BOUNDARY TEST" THEN THE BIRD ACKNOWLEDGES NO BOUNDARIES, AND ACTS UP...

IF THE BIRD GETS TO DECIDE WHEN HE DOES AND DOESN'T FEEL LIKE STAYING IN THE BOUNDARIES, THIS REINFORCES THE MESSAGE THAT "YOU DON'T HAVE TO IF YOU DON'T WANNA..."

MACAW "I DON'T FEEL LIKE IT, WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO ABOUT IT" BEHAVIORS USUALLY FOLLOW THAT LINE OF THINKING...

Use clicker training. This helps improving your bond with the bird and use positive reinforcement trough treats. Not all birds care about nice words or a pat on the head but all birds do anything for treats. Also the clicker becomes a reinforcer too because it marks the moment the bird did something good.

WHAT EVER TRAINING YOU USE, IT HAS TO BE CENTERED ON WHAT EVER IS TRIGGERING THE BAD BEHAVIORS.

As for the screaming.. thats a hard one once the bird has learned to scream for attention. Try to completely ignore it like Birdman said. However the covering part does not always work with all birds. I have seen many birds that either get nervous, stressed and even scared when covered which can hurt the trust bond with your bird. Screaming is mostly for attention so if he screams just don't react in any way. Birds can see even the slightest reaction of the human when he screams so keep that in mind.

THIS DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE ATTENTION SCREAMING TO ME. IT APPEARS TO BE SOME SORT OF FLOCK ALARM CALL, WHICH WOULD APPEAR TO BE A FEAR BASED SCREAMING DISORDER... DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS APPLY. THIS TO ME SAYS TRY DESENSITIZATION TRAINING AROUND STRANGERS. PUT THE BIRD IN A TRAVEL CAGE, TAKE HIM OUT SOMEWHERE PUBLIC WITH LOTS OF STRANGERS AROUND, AND LET HIM GET USED TO STRANGERS COMING AND GOING ALL THE TIME. FOCUS ON CAUSATION... DIAGNOSE THAT... THEN COME UP WITH AN APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION PLAN.

Respect your bird and he will start to respect you...

THIS WORKS IN THEORY. IT DOESN'T ALWAYS WORK IN PRACTICE. SOME BIRDS ARE BULLIES. OTHERS COULD GIVE STUBBORN LESSONS TO A MULE. SOME ARE SO DEFENSIVE THEY BITE FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS LATER.
 
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JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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Never ever force your bird to step up or do something he doesn't want to do. Birds are like persons. If you don't want to do something and somebody is forcing you to you'll start hating him too. You have to show birds boundaries but if you're already in this stage never force those boundaries. Let the boundaries flow in a bit. Guide him to the boundaries instead of immediately forcing things on him.

....

I disagree with the bolded portion as well. My Ripley would not be here if he would have had his way with me at the store where I bought him. :) You see, he was an 18-month old stubborn GW, who was lunging at me relentlessly through the cage.

I took it as a bluff. It WAS a bluff. :) I didn't allow him to intimidate me in the least. I took him out, made him step up. 2 days later I bought him and brought him home. We have a GREAT relationship. I can actually comfortably place him on anyone who comes and visits.
 

michaell089

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Feb 8, 2016
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I understand what you mean with boundaries and teach them to a parrot. But in this case the parrot and the owner do not yet have a "bond". I have seen many many people come into our parrot rescue centre and when observing the interaction between the owner and parrot they almost all had one thing in common: they all forced the bird to step up when it didn't want to. Once we showed them how to properly teach the bird to step up they took a complete 180 and didn't have to be forced to step up. They gladly stepped up. Just like the bird needs to respect your boundaries and teach him what the boundaries are, you also have to respect his.

Ofcourse the bird will test you and you shouldn't falter but once you have a bond with the bird that is possible. And in the case of Kalie's bird I really think she should start with clicker/touch training to form the bond, teach the bird to step-up so it wants to step-up instead of having to force him. After that you can teach him boundaries, reward good behaviour, redirect bad behaviour and ignore him when he's testing those boundaries.

Don't let him boss you around and be intimidated but don't force the bird to do something it doesn't want either. Be smarter than the bird.

I have trained many troubled and neglected parrots this way and every time it works.

And in your case JerseyWendy, do you also use clicker training and positive reinforcement?
If so I think thats why you have a great bond with your bird. Also some birds just accept people when it clicks.. sometimes birds and humans just have a click and it works and they will step-up even though the bird isn't normally the type to do that with strangers. Apparently its got something to do with the vibe you give off to the birds and your state of mind since parrots are very empathic. Not being afraid and nervous of a bird helps alot but some people don't have that which the parrot can feel and feel frightened.

-Michaell
 

JerseyWendy

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Jul 20, 2012
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Nope, I've never used clicker training for my fids. None of them. And they're all exceptionally well behaved. :D I do believe clicker training is a GREAT tool for those who are comfortable using it.

And yes, positive reinforcement is given in abundance, on a daily basis. Not via treats, but verbal. All my guys (and gal) thoroughly enjoy physical interaction as well - with all of us. :)
 

Birdman666

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2013
9,904
258
San Antonio, TX
Parrots
Presently have six Greenwing Macaw (17 yo), Red Fronted Macaw (12 yo), Red Lored Amazon (17 y.o.), Lilac Crowned Amazon (about 43 y.o.) and a Congo African Grey (11 y.o.)
Panama Amazon (1 Y.O.)
Just like the bird needs to respect your boundaries and teach him what the boundaries are, you also have to respect his.

NOT WHEN HIS BOUNDARIES ARE I WILL DO WHAT EVER I PLEASE, WHEN EVER IT PLEASES ME TO DO IT... THAT IS THE GATEWAY TO MACAW SPOILED BIRD SYNDROME.

Ofcourse the bird will test you and you shouldn't falter but once you have a bond with the bird that is possible. And in the case of Kalie's bird I really think she should start with clicker/touch training to form the bond, teach the bird to step-up so it wants to step-up instead of having to force him. After that you can teach him boundaries, reward good behaviour, redirect bad behaviour and ignore him when he's testing those boundaries.

I DISAGREE. CLICKER TRAINING CAN BE EFFECTIVE, BUT IT'S NOT THE END ALL/BE ALL.

UNTIL YOU FIGURE OUT THE CAUSE AND EFFECT TRIGGER FOR THE SCREAMING DISORDER, AND THE BITING, THE BAD BEHAVIORS WILL CONTINUE.

THE LACK OF BONDING IS LARGELY DUE TO A LACK OF BOUNDARIES. THE ACT OF TEACHING THE BOUNDARIES, GIVES YOU THE BONDING...

Don't let him boss you around and be intimidated but don't force the bird to do something it doesn't want either. Be smarter than the bird.

I have trained many troubled and neglected parrots this way and every time it works.

I'VE TRAINED A FEW HUNDRED MYSELF... AND A GREENWING MACAW ESSENTIALLY "ATE" MY CLICKER MORE THAN A DOZEN YEARS AGO, THAT'S HOW IMPRESSED THAT BIRD WAS WITH "CLICKER TRAINING." CRUNCH! CRACK! I'M NOT SAYING IT DOESN'T WORK. I'M SAYING THAT PARTICULAR BIRD DIDN'T APPRECIATE THE CONCEPT! THIS MAY WORK ON MOST BUT ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL...

IT TAKES MORE THAN JUST A CLICKER TO FORM A STRONG BOND WITH A BIG MAC...
 
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