To Fly or Not to Fly

Abu Colo · Nov 27, 2017

We are debating the philosophical question of whether macaws should be taught to fly in our apartment. My opinion is that until Colocolo :blue1:

learns to fly then he is just a flamboyant kakapo. I am also hoping that flight recall would be good exercise. Discuss.

itzjbean · Nov 27, 2017

In my opinion there are many benefits to teaching parrots to fly. It enables them to utilize what they arte meant to do in the wild, though on not such a huge scale. It allows them another way of transportation. It is excellent exercise. It is both good for their body but also their mind. They become more independent when they learn to fly. You don't have to walk across the room to pick them up, as you said with flight recall (something all birds should learn) will teach them to come to you on command. With a flighted bird when taking them outside of course you want to take precautions and put them on a harness.

You said that you live in an apartment....with a macaw??! I'm wondering how your neighbros like that 747 jet noise screaming!

SilleIN · Nov 27, 2017

I am true believer in flighted birds. If not for their mental health, then for their physical health.

Birds respiratory system is build of 2 lungs and 9 air sacks. The air sacks are reliant on the movement of wings to work properly, which means they get a redused respiratory capacity if they don't move their wings- a little like having astma.

A lot of the non-flighted birds don't move their wings (as they have no need to).

I share my house with a handfull of flighted macaws (along with a number of other flighted birds) and I don't find flighted birds a hassle, I would say the opposite.

I enjoy them flying a lot

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9ojkpLP6RQ"]My Trudi out flying[/ame]

adz1984 · Nov 27, 2017

Bella is a little over a year old and I believe was clipped very young before learning to fly anyways she just started to get her wings back within the last few months and has been flying properly for a couple weeks.
She sits ontop of her cage and doe's loops several times around my room then back to cagetop while being very vocal. Definately seems happier to me and is getting good exercise as she was kind of a perch potatoe with clipped wings.
Only negative is I have to be alot more careful for example I was playing a game yesterday and turned around to find Bella on my bed (which I never seen her go to before) chewing on my favorite hat which is now destroyed also she had a go at my iphone which was saved by falling off the bed, though now has some dents

LordTriggs · Nov 28, 2017

flying is 100% better for them, both physically and mentally as long as it's safe

an apartment with a macaw!? Must have some good insulation, or very tolerable neighbours

Jottlebot · Nov 28, 2017

Debating....hmmmm....as in at least one party is not in favour of "teaching" your macaw to fly. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know not everyone has fully feathered birds, but.... erm....why would you not!? Please don't tell me it's because you live in an apartment and there isn't much room. Is this not something you thought/talked about before getting (presumably) one of the largest parrot species with a lifespan not dissimilar to our own?! I'm not sure it's a philosophical issue either! It's kind of a vital, physical and mental health issue isn't it?...

Abu Colo · Nov 28, 2017

Thank you very much for the encouraging responses and considerations, with a special recognition for Jottlebot for being a prying smart aleck.

Jottlebot · Nov 28, 2017

Apologies, must have misunderstood "discuss". I'm from the UK where it means discuss, but then again over here it's smart alec so no wonder I was confused...

FlyBirdiesFly · Nov 28, 2017

Flighted all the way! As everyone said, it's so much better for their health and happiness! But a macaw in an apartment? First, I wouldn't think they would have much room to fly in there, even if flighted, and second, what about the noise?!

bill_e · Nov 28, 2017

So my Hawk Head is now flighted for the first time since we got her from her previous home....she's somewhere in her 20's I think.

Prior to letting her feathers grow she was very well behaved because she stayed where we put her. Now, she doesn't sit still for a moment. She goes from perch to perch to cage to lamp shade, to plant stand, and from person to person and everywhere in-between....non stop (well, she may spend a little time at each resting point but no longer than a half hour and often only a minute or two. Likely an indication of the frustration she had when she was clipped.

I know it's better for her health and I get satisfaction seeing her move around but what a PITA especially when she lands on the floor...I've almost tripped over her a couple of times. I've never seen her take off from the floor either...if she did I would feel a little better.

It's amazing how she will fly from a perch in the living room through multiple rooms to find me or her mom in the kitchen...a zig zagged 50+ feet away with no prior knowledge of where were went off to.

I'm conflicted if I'm going to leave her like this. Do any of you know if this is normal flighted behavior or if she will slow down a bit once she gets used to her new found freedom?

The other issue is our other pets. We have cats and a dog. All ignore her and the cats will run the other way when they hear her wings flapping but i know that behavior can change in an instant..I'd feel better if she stayed off the floor which she mostly does, especially as her flying skills improve.

We let her out first thing in the morning and it is impossible to sit near her perch all day as you might expect. We never leave her totally alone but one has to go about things in the house.

Comments? Ideas? More perches to fly to? I'd like to leave her flighted but she's flying more than perching at the moment.

Bill

adz1984 · Nov 28, 2017

Bill I Can't help but will say I'm in a similar situation and have same worries amongst others.. I don't see it ending well in the long term unless I make some serious changes. For now she's only aloud of the cage while I can supervise her.

LordTriggs · Nov 29, 2017

Rafael, there is no need to start attacking people like that, you asked for a response, you got a response. I will say it does seem weird that you are discussing whether it is correct to have a bird (an animal that has spent the last 10 million years evolving to fly) be able to fly in your home.

I just noticed you posted another thread where you wanted a 30"x30" cage for your Mac.

You seriously need to reconsider your living arrangements with him because to be 100% blunt with you stopping him flying and keeping him in such a small cage is animal abuse, there's no other way to describe it. I really hope when you say apartment you mean a condo or something similar because a typical apartment is not enough for a Macaw to live in

SilleIN · Nov 29, 2017

bill_e said:
So my Hawk Head is now flighted for the first time since we got her from her previous home....she's somewhere in her 20's I think.

Prior to letting her feathers grow she was very well behaved because she stayed where we put her. Now, she doesn't sit still for a moment. She goes from perch to perch to cage to lamp shade, to plant stand, and from person to person and everywhere in-between....non stop (well, she may spend a little time at each resting point but no longer than a half hour and often only a minute or two. Likely an indication of the frustration she had when she was clipped.

I know it's better for her health and I get satisfaction seeing her move around but what a PITA especially when she lands on the floor...I've almost tripped over her a couple of times. I've never seen her take off from the floor either...if she did I would feel a little better.

It's amazing how she will fly from a perch in the living room through multiple rooms to find me or her mom in the kitchen...a zig zagged 50+ feet away with no prior knowledge of where were went off to.

I'm conflicted if I'm going to leave her like this. Do any of you know if this is normal flighted behavior or if she will slow down a bit once she gets used to her new found freedom?

The other issue is our other pets. We have cats and a dog. All ignore her and the cats will run the other way when they hear her wings flapping but i know that behavior can change in an instant..I'd feel better if she stayed off the floor which she mostly does, especially as her flying skills improve.

We let her out first thing in the morning and it is impossible to sit near her perch all day as you might expect. We never leave her totally alone but one has to go about things in the house.

Comments? Ideas? More perches to fly to? I'd like to leave her flighted but she's flying more than perching at the moment.

Bill

I will start off by saying I don't have any hawk heads so things may not apply fully to your bird. I have a friend with a hawk head and from what I can gather, their personality is a but more feisty than the birds I have.

If you had a macaw, I would say that firstly it takes about 6-12 months for a bird, who have not learned to fly during fledging (right word??) to hone their flight skills properly, especially landing.

Secondly I find with the birds, who have not always been flighted, they spend a lot more time "testing their wings" than the ones, who has never been without their ability. The ones I have eventually went back to "normal" after about 6 months.

Thirdly I would definately add more places for her to sit and play, preferably relatively high up. If she has any shreddable toys next to a perch at shoulder level, I would think you would find her there for longer. It's their natural instinct to sit as high as possible.

Then again I also have lorikeets and they never slow down, they are little speedsters, who are always up to mischief.

I don't know if I confused you more than I helped. I would probably say give it 6 months and see if she slows down and give her some perches at high leves and see if that makes her more comfortable to stay and hang around.

Abu Colo · Dec 1, 2017

LordTriggs said:
Rafael, there is no need to start attacking people like that, you asked for a response, you got a response. I will say it does seem weird that you are discussing whether it is correct to have a bird (an animal that has spent the last 10 million years evolving to fly) be able to fly in your home.

I just noticed you posted another thread where you wanted a 30"x30" cage for your Mac.

You seriously need to reconsider your living arrangements with him because to be 100% blunt with you stopping him flying and keeping him in such a small cage is animal abuse, there's no other way to describe it. I really hope when you say apartment you mean a condo or something similar because a typical apartment is not enough for a Macaw to live in

As long as the bird is healthy, happy, and legal, I don't see how anyone's living arrangement is anyone else's business here. And I don't need some snarky git snickering about it or my English as if he knows something about either. This was an invitation to discuss the pros and cons of teaching a large bird to fly and whether there were any safety issues to consider. Likewise I was looking for cage recommendations against the difficulty of finding an attainable cage that met all the requirements of a large bird - something which no indoor cage on the market seems to have fully satisfied. For your information, I had also read that some macaws prefer to sleep in smaller cages for whatever reason, and I was interested in hearing whether or not people here had had such experiences with their birds. Thankfully some of the responses have been more helpful than others, and I am glad that some people also had similar questions and concerns that could be addressed here.

Abu Colo · Dec 1, 2017

SilleIN said:
bill_e said:

So my Hawk Head is now flighted for the first time since we got her from her previous home....she's somewhere in her 20's I think.

Prior to letting her feathers grow she was very well behaved because she stayed where we put her. Now, she doesn't sit still for a moment. She goes from perch to perch to cage to lamp shade, to plant stand, and from person to person and everywhere in-between....non stop (well, she may spend a little time at each resting point but no longer than a half hour and often only a minute or two. Likely an indication of the frustration she had when she was clipped.

I know it's better for her health and I get satisfaction seeing her move around but what a PITA especially when she lands on the floor...I've almost tripped over her a couple of times. I've never seen her take off from the floor either...if she did I would feel a little better.

It's amazing how she will fly from a perch in the living room through multiple rooms to find me or her mom in the kitchen...a zig zagged 50+ feet away with no prior knowledge of where were went off to.

I'm conflicted if I'm going to leave her like this. Do any of you know if this is normal flighted behavior or if she will slow down a bit once she gets used to her new found freedom?

The other issue is our other pets. We have cats and a dog. All ignore her and the cats will run the other way when they hear her wings flapping but i know that behavior can change in an instant..I'd feel better if she stayed off the floor which she mostly does, especially as her flying skills improve.

We let her out first thing in the morning and it is impossible to sit near her perch all day as you might expect. We never leave her totally alone but one has to go about things in the house.

Comments? Ideas? More perches to fly to? I'd like to leave her flighted but she's flying more than perching at the moment.

Bill

Click to expand...

I will start off by saying I don't have any hawk heads so things may not apply fully to your bird. I have a friend with a hawk head and from what I can gather, their personality is a but more feisty than the birds I have.

If you had a macaw, I would say that firstly it takes about 6-12 months for a bird, who have not learned to fly during fledging (right word??) to hone their flight skills properly, especially landing.

Secondly I find with the birds, who have not always been flighted, they spend a lot more time "testing their wings" than the ones, who has never been without their ability. The ones I have eventually went back to "normal" after about 6 months.

Thirdly I would definately add more places for her to sit and play, preferably relatively high up. If she has any shreddable toys next to a perch at shoulder level, I would think you would find her there for longer. It's their natural instinct to sit as high as possible.

Then again I also have lorikeets and they never slow down, they are little speedsters, who are always up to mischief.

I don't know if I confused you more than I helped. I would probably say give it 6 months and see if she slows down and give her some perches at high leves and see if that makes her more comfortable to stay and hang around.

Tack så mycket.

SilleIN · Dec 2, 2017

Rafael said:
Tack så mycket.

Do you speak Swedish og was that the translation for Danish?

As regards to mac cages I just read your thread about a 30x30 cage for a mac. I can definately not recommend a cage that small for a mac. I would say the bigger the better.

Another option could be just placing your mac on a stand during night if you are just looking for a place for it to sleep

At any rate if you want a cage for a mac I would say you need a cage that gives your mac room to stretch it's wings inside.

As for colour I haven't had any of my white cages chip from my macs beaks and I have a mac, who really likes to use the cage bars as beak trimming tool

If it's a regular parrot cage (not for parakeets or smaller birds) they all seem to be good enough quality for the paint to stay in place.

plumsmum2005 · Dec 2, 2017

bill_e said:
So my Hawk Head is now flighted for the first time since we got her from her previous home....she's somewhere in her 20's I think.

Prior to letting her feathers grow she was very well behaved because she stayed where we put her. Now, she doesn't sit still for a moment. She goes from perch to perch to cage to lamp shade, to plant stand, and from person to person and everywhere in-between....non stop (well, she may spend a little time at each resting point but no longer than a half hour and often only a minute or two. Likely an indication of the frustration she had when she was clipped.

I know it's better for her health and I get satisfaction seeing her move around but what a PITA especially when she lands on the floor...I've almost tripped over her a couple of times. I've never seen her take off from the floor either...if she did I would feel a little better.

It's amazing how she will fly from a perch in the living room through multiple rooms to find me or her mom in the kitchen...a zig zagged 50+ feet away with no prior knowledge of where were went off to.

I'm conflicted if I'm going to leave her like this. Do any of you know if this is normal flighted behavior or if she will slow down a bit once she gets used to her new found freedom?

The other issue is our other pets. We have cats and a dog. All ignore her and the cats will run the other way when they hear her wings flapping but i know that behavior can change in an instant..I'd feel better if she stayed off the floor which she mostly does, especially as her flying skills improve.

We let her out first thing in the morning and it is impossible to sit near her perch all day as you might expect. We never leave her totally alone but one has to go about things in the house.

Comments? Ideas? More perches to fly to? I'd like to leave her flighted but she's flying more than perching at the moment.

Bill

Hi Bill, Plum has recently re-found his wings and has learnt by being taken round the house on tours safe places to land. If he wants to fly upstairs he knows there is a half wall at the top, flies up and down the kitchen using the door as a temp perch. Take Nike around the house, place her on places you don't mind her landing/perching on. She will build a mental map of these places in each room and it may help her. Example you may need to cover the sofa back and then place her there, it will be remembered as a safe landing spot. Plum has now knows I am upstairs and want him to fly to me by tapping on the half wall shelf/sill at the top of the stairs, a little encouragement and there he is. Good luck with Nike, seeing them fly and be safe is wonderful.

bill_e · Dec 2, 2017

I believe Nike was flighted with the previous owner but we clipped her wings when I took her. Thanks for the comments.

LordTriggs · Dec 4, 2017

Rafael said:
LordTriggs said:

Rafael, there is no need to start attacking people like that, you asked for a response, you got a response. I will say it does seem weird that you are discussing whether it is correct to have a bird (an animal that has spent the last 10 million years evolving to fly) be able to fly in your home.

I just noticed you posted another thread where you wanted a 30"x30" cage for your Mac.

You seriously need to reconsider your living arrangements with him because to be 100% blunt with you stopping him flying and keeping him in such a small cage is animal abuse, there's no other way to describe it. I really hope when you say apartment you mean a condo or something similar because a typical apartment is not enough for a Macaw to live in

Click to expand...

As long as the bird is healthy, happy, and legal, I don't see how anyone's living arrangement is anyone else's business here. And I don't need some snarky git snickering about it or my English as if he knows something about either. This was an invitation to discuss the pros and cons of teaching a large bird to fly and whether there were any safety issues to consider. Likewise I was looking for cage recommendations against the difficulty of finding an attainable cage that met all the requirements of a large bird - something which no indoor cage on the market seems to have fully satisfied. For your information, I had also read that some macaws prefer to sleep in smaller cages for whatever reason, and I was interested in hearing whether or not people here had had such experiences with their birds. Thankfully some of the responses have been more helpful than others, and I am glad that some people also had similar questions and concerns that could be addressed here.

At what point am I "Snickering" at you? Many people use the word Apartment to describe multiple types of homes, it was an honest question meant to cause no offense to you but when you share info like that yes people will discuss it. I don't deny that you care for your bird but you need to see how it appears to someone who doesn't see your day to day life. I wasn't aware he only slept in that cage but that would be his cage for whenever he was unable to be out. You did not present the question as the pros and cons of teaching flight. You presented as a debate as to whether a bird should fly which is a different question entirely. Hopefully you can see where I'm coming from. There was no attack on you though in hindsight I can see how it must have come across to which I apologize, but I am sure you're aware that many people keep pets in cruel situations not understanding they are cruel. Yes their health and happiness is what is important which is exactly why I asked said questions.

There is still no reason to immediately attack someone who is asking you a question. Jottlebot made an extremely good point based on your presentation. Instead of explaining what you meant giving clarification to what you were asking for those of us that didn't understand you immediately responded with insults, which there is no need for and could have avoided getting anyone riled up.

To answer the actual question of teaching a bird to fly, yes there are inherent risks, such as getting into stuff they shouldn't and suddenly testing their boundaries more along with dangers such as window and wall hits. But to leave them unable to have any flight opens them up to painful health conditions such as fatty liver disease and other such problems. Also to see a bird happily fly over to yourself (often screaming in delight) is something that could melt anyone's heart

Abu Colo · Dec 4, 2017

SilleIN said:
Rafael said:

Tack så mycket.

Click to expand...

Do you speak Swedish og was that the translation for Danish?

Ja jag pratar lil svenska. I knew you would get the joke - I also had a Danish roommate, and I could never understand him. And if I even try to speak Norwegian, it still sounds like Swedish. Hey hej.

To Fly or Not to Fly

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