Free flight training outside or Not?

Timneh · Dec 26, 2018

I tried to search this topic on this forum but not much luck.

I bought a baby GW macaw and wanted to know what the community here feels about free flying outside? I used to be for it but after watching some YouTube videos I can see many dangers like dogs, hawks, cars, diseases from wild bird droppings on tree branches, flying away, crazy people with guns and thieves.
I will keep her fully feathered and fly her inside my house and maybe find a warehouse for exercise because it's good for their health mentally and physically but outside is scary

What do you think about free flying your birds?
:red1:

Owlet · Dec 26, 2018

TBH I personally am almost strictly against free flight outside because there's so much risk, but if you do it DO NOT take your bird outside without a harness until you are COMPLETELY confident that it will come when called and can fly safely and stay away from harm.

Flboy · Dec 26, 2018

To do such a thing, you are opening yourself up for a world of hurt for both you and your baby!
This is from a well respected member!
http://www.parrotforums.com/lost-found/60914-i-lost-maggie-tonight.html

Timneh · Dec 26, 2018

Thank you for your comments, I agree it's too risky but seems like the trend.
I won't fly her outside with no harness, they have a harness on a line, but even that could fail.

charmedbyekkie · Dec 26, 2018

Cairo was free-flight trained with his previous family. Where I live (not US anymore), there is a huge free-flight community - they all say that if you free-fly, you have to accept that you might lose the bird and you might have to search days for them or wait hours beneath trees for them. I know one guy lost his macaw (got scared off by a bird of prey, I think), and he offered 2k (roughly the price of a macaw here) or to buy the finder a baby macaw as replacement. And I know a lot of people don't go to work when they've lost their bird (I know I didn't). I do live on an island, so there's only about 700 sq km to look for your bird

If you do want to go free-flying, definitely find a field that doesn't have traffic nearby, scout out for predators constantly, train extensively beforehand on a harness in all kinds of weather (sometimes there's a sudden gust of wind and your bird must know how to handle that, plus your bird needs the stamina in case they have to outfly crows or hawks or even the wind), and fly with other folks. Birds do like being in flocks, so if you have a community that your macaw is familiar with, he/she is more likely to fly back with the other macaws. My local community finds that solo free-flight is incredibly risky, so most people either fly with other people or they buy a second bird to free-fly together.

Like I said, Cairo is free-flight trained, but I won't be doing that anytime soon with him. He gets cheeky (when we found him after he spooked off from our home, he teased us by flying down as if he would land, then circle back up into a tree to laugh at us), and he also doesn't handle strong winds well. His stamina is short-distance only at this point, so if he gets tired while fighting the wind or being chased by other birds, he'll likely either get taken down or land somewhere unsafe. He has aborted landings before (while on harness) because the wind buffeted him too much, and that for me is too risky to allow him to try free-flight. Cairo also has a strong flight instinct - he does often fly to my head for safety, but if something he sees as dangerous is between me and him, he'll just anyhow spook off.

Plus, recall training at home is very different from recall training outside. Not just the mental environment (Cairo is 95% responsive at home, but outside, he's less responsive, partly due to that flight/spook instinct), but also the physical environment. It's hard to hear a human shouting across the distance a bird can fly, especially if there's a breeze higher up or ambient noise (traffic, etc). A lot of free-flying folks go for loud sports whistles (think Fox 40).

Then on top of that, there are multiple facets to training for free-flight. There's recall, yes, but there's also boomerang (where you send them out and back). The steps and tricks to free-flight are many, but so few advise it online, you'll need to find a local community if you want to do it.

Most importantly, you have to factor in your bird's own aptitude and personality. I know the time Cairo flew off from his previous family and found us was simply because his family hadn't free-flown him in a while, so he got pissy and unclipped his chain (they use chains locally) and went for a joy flight, then got lost for a week. And I have seen well-trained macaws do similar things, where they get jealous that other birds were free-flying without then, so when the owner wanted to do basic recall, the macaw just flew off for a joy flight, ignoring the whistles summoning him back. Parrots are not dogs, who often just want to please their owner; parrots have strong personalities with their own thoughts and emotions and memories, which is something you must absolutely factor in.

For us, we fly on the harness only. Yes, we fly outside, but we know the places we fly at don't have any birds of prey and we do not fly if there's a pet dog or children nearby. But given Cairo's personality and flying ability (agility, stamina, experience), I am hesitant to free-fly him. I got so distraught when Cairo spooked off for 22hrs - I know I wouldn't be able to handle it if it was my fault again.

ChristaNL · Dec 27, 2018

If you ever consider freeflight outside, make sure there is a locator conneted to the harness (connecting it to the bird still poses issues, hawks,falcons etc. may not be that fanatic about removing theirs, parrots generally are).
And get your bird microchipped and registered!

(a registered microchip will at least prove you are the real owner in case of mishaps and confusion).
People somehow love to grab and confiscate other peoples birds (probably what happened to Maggie imho).

Thank you for considering the wellbeing of your bird.
Flapping large birds are a nuisance in the house (mine keep competely ruining everything I work on, just doing a simple flyby) but oh so happy

SilleIN · Dec 27, 2018

I free fly my birds during summer. It's a lot of work and should not be taken on lightly.

I made a small introduction following the education of a scarlet macaw here: http://www.parrotforums.com/free-flight/69108-trudis-free-flight-progress.html

Timneh · Dec 27, 2018

Thank you Charm, really good info, I appreciate your reply, and I AGREE WITH IT ALL, THANKS.

Timneh · Dec 27, 2018

Thanks for your reply, you own 12 birds, that's a handful.

Morty · Dec 27, 2018

I do take my bird outside on my shoulder to and from buildings/house to car, but free flight, I'd never risk. This is because as much as I believe birds will come back to you, I do NOT trust the wildlife. I suppose if you live someplace without birds of prey, that is one thing. I do not know if such a place exists, but here-- never. A bright, beautiful parrot is like a neon sign to a raptor saying "EAT ME EAT ME!" You'd never be able to stop it. Some of the birds here can free fall in excess of 90MPH after prey. I had an immature pigeon I was carrying in my hands to my car from work and a young and very bold falcon attempted to take her right from my hands in broad daylight.
Aside from that, there's the risk of cars. It just seems too much. Outside, sure. Outside on shoulder, sure. But both of my parrots are clipped and honestly, all it takes for me to not feel bad about that decision is a skimming of some of the older threads here where people have lost their birds for me to stop feeling any guilt over doing it.

FlyBirdiesFly · Dec 27, 2018

I don’t agree with taking a clipped bird outside on your shoulder without a harness. Clipped birds can get spooked and take off, and a gust of wind can carry them up and away into a tree. Yes, under the right conditions, clipped birds can still fly! However, a clipped bird does not have much experience flying and cannot descend back down to you, while a free flight trained bird (or indoor recall trained bird) can. Many people have lost their clipped birds this way, where they trust the bird will stay on their shoulder but one day, they don’t. It only takes one unfortunate accident for your bird to fly away.

With that being said, I think that taking any bird outside without a harness is too risky. Even an experienced free flyer can get spooked and go much farther than they anticipated, and not know how to get back. If you do free fly, I highly recommend that you use a tracking device connected to a harness, and microchip your bird. There’s still the possibility of hawks and falcons though, so there will always be risks. I have to admit, I love watching free flying videos on YouTube, and the birds seem so happy, but I would never do it myself. I have smaller parrots which can get plenty of flying exercise indoors.

The best and safest route in my opinion would be to keep your bird flighted and recall train it indoors, then regularly take it outside with a harness to socialize and fly a bit. All my birds are flighted and I’m actually very against clipping, so I recognize that you’re thinking about the bird’s well being. I’ve never had experience with a macaw or any large parrot, but I can imagine that they can’t fly much inside a house. I do think that they need flying exercise just as much as the smaller parrots, so perhaps consider taking your parrot to a large indoor space such as a gym once in a while? I still think that if you decide to free fly outside, you should be prepared for the heartbreak of loosing your precious baby.

EllenD · Dec 27, 2018

Here's the thing about "Free-Flying" your pet bird outside...Even the most professionally, highly-trained birds get lost. Every single day. We had an extremely experienced free-flight trainer lose his own Greenwing Macaw a couple of years ago, and this bird was flown every single day...And why did she suddenly fly away from her beloved owner after years of free-flying with no issues? Because as she was coming in to land on him and go home, someone knocked over a ladder nearby, and the sound spooked her, so she aborted her landing and just kept-on going...and to this day has not been found. And that situation is one of the most heart-breaking I've ever been aware of.

***If you have just brought home a baby Macaw, you need to start harness-training him immediately, because even that is not easy and takes some birds months and months to simply accept being put on them. 3 of my 4 are harness-trained and I take them out with me all the time in the summer, and they love it. But it took a long time to train each of them to simply wear the Aviator Harness, and I started them right away when they were babies. So I would concentrate on getting your Macaw harness-trained now, because that is the best, safest way to be able to take your Macaw outside for walks, to go with you on errands, to take them places and to socialize them. And the "Aviator Harness" is widely-accepted as the safest and best-designed parrot-harness. All-in-all taking them outside with you on the Aviator Harness and leash is pretty safe, but you still have to be constantly aware of what they are doing, and even more-so you need to be aware of what OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. People aren't always smart about things when it comes to just walking-up to a pet and touching them, and with a Greenwing Macaw he has the ability to bite off a finger pretty easily. So you always have to be conscious of what is going on with your bird when you have him out in public. But in-general, having your bird out and about with you on the Aviator Harness is pretty safe and secure, and it's a blast to have your bird with you wherever you go...

***As far as "free-flying" your bird, there are two things that you need to do before you ever even think about taking him outside and letting him off his harness: #1 is that you need to buy a GPS parrot-tracker, as it's the safest and smartest way to not lose your bird. There are many different types, but in-general they are small units that attach to your bird's Aviator Harness. So you have to free-fly your bird with him wearing his Aviator-Harness and with the GPS-tracker attached to his Aviator Harness, and then you sync-it with the App on your cellphone. Spending a couple hundred dollars (or less if you buy a pre-owned one on eBay) will let you know exactly where your bird is if and when he takes-off. Priceless piece of equipment...#2) is that you must always first start out your bird's free-flight training by "Recall-Training" him INDOORS. You can't just take your bird outside and let him loose and expect him to come back to you, no matter how "bonded" he is to you. It doesn't work that way. So most people buy a "training stand" or "free-flight" stand, which is usually a large, natural branch attached to a collapsible Tripod that you can fold-up and take in your car. You make that your bird's "home-base" right from the beginning, and you use that indoors to "Recall Train" your bird to always come to you when you call him. Finding his favorite treat in the world and reserving that treat ONLY for rewarding him during free-flight is imperative. And also buying the "training extension lead" for your Aviator Harness is also necessary, as it will give your bird 50-100 feet of leash on his Aviator Harness, and that way you can do Recall-Training outside safely with him wearing his Aviator Harness and it still being attached to your wrist, but he'll have enough leash to be able to do Recall-Training from his "Training Stand" or "Free-flight stand" at increasing distances up to 100 feet or more (I've seen people with massively long training-leads on their Aviator Harnesses outside)...And only when you're 100% confident that your bird is fully Recall-Trained do you EVER consider letting him free outside...So it's a process of buying the correct/necessary equipment, and then a long, long basic Recall-Training period before you ever let him loose outside. Most people do Recall-Training for months and months to over a year before they ever let their birds loose outside...

In my opinion free-flight isn't worth the risk at all, I've seen so many birds, and well-trained birds, just take-off and never come back. Owners searching for days and weeks on-end without sleeping, it's just terrible. And it's your fault, and you keep reminding yourself of that...And honestly, in my own opinion, if you free-fly your bird without having a GPS unit on them, you're just an irresponsible idiot. Period. They are not expensive anymore, you can get a very good unit for around $200 new, and there is no excuse at all for not using one if you're going to free-fly your bird. Period.

dhraiden · Dec 27, 2018

I would not do this - my fids aren't well-trained at all, and one is a clumsy flier, and there's nowhere I'd considered safe and risk-free enough to try it, even if they were perfectly trained. I also don't think conures are as suited to or needful of it, but Macaws, 'Toos etc certainly could use flight-time of some kind more so, given their larger bodies and wing-spans.

Maybe if I lived somewhere huge with a yard completely encircled and roofed-in by golf-netting or something. Otherwise: not worth it. Just let them fly around indoors, or use a harness and be properly tethered when going outside.

Timneh · Dec 27, 2018

Morty said:
I do take my bird outside on my shoulder to and from buildings/house to car, but free flight, I'd never risk. This is because as much as I believe birds will come back to you, I do NOT trust the wildlife. I suppose if you live someplace without birds of prey, that is one thing. I do not know if such a place exists, but here-- never. A bright, beautiful parrot is like a neon sign to a raptor saying "EAT ME EAT ME!" You'd never be able to stop it. Some of the birds here can free fall in excess of 90MPH after prey. I had an immature pigeon I was carrying in my hands to my car from work and a young and very bold falcon attempted to take her right from my hands in broad daylight.
Aside from that, there's the risk of cars. It just seems too much. Outside, sure. Outside on shoulder, sure. But both of my parrots are clipped and honestly, all it takes for me to not feel bad about that decision is a skimming of some of the older threads here where people have lost their birds for me to stop feeling any guilt over doing it.

Yeah we got hawks here in Illinois, also bold owls. Thank you for your reply.

Timneh · Dec 27, 2018

EllenD said:
Here's the thing about "Free-Flying" your pet bird outside...Even the most professionally, highly-trained birds get lost. Every single day. We had an extremely experienced free-flight trainer lose his own Greenwing Macaw a couple of years ago, and this bird was flown every single day...And why did she suddenly fly away from her beloved owner after years of free-flying with no issues? Because as she was coming in to land on him and go home, someone knocked over a ladder nearby, and the sound spooked her, so she aborted her landing and just kept-on going...and to this day has not been found. And that situation is one of the most heart-breaking I've ever been aware of.

***If you have just brought home a baby Macaw, you need to start harness-training him immediately, because even that is not easy and takes some birds months and months to simply accept being put on them. 3 of my 4 are harness-trained and I take them out with me all the time in the summer, and they love it. But it took a long time to train each of them to simply wear the Aviator Harness, and I started them right away when they were babies. So I would concentrate on getting your Macaw harness-trained now, because that is the best, safest way to be able to take your Macaw outside for walks, to go with you on errands, to take them places and to socialize them. And the "Aviator Harness" is widely-accepted as the safest and best-designed parrot-harness. All-in-all taking them outside with you on the Aviator Harness and leash is pretty safe, but you still have to be constantly aware of what they are doing, and even more-so you need to be aware of what OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. People aren't always smart about things when it comes to just walking-up to a pet and touching them, and with a Greenwing Macaw he has the ability to bite off a finger pretty easily. So you always have to be conscious of what is going on with your bird when you have him out in public. But in-general, having your bird out and about with you on the Aviator Harness is pretty safe and secure, and it's a blast to have your bird with you wherever you go...

***As far as "free-flying" your bird, there are two things that you need to do before you ever even think about taking him outside and letting him off his harness: #1 is that you need to buy a GPS parrot-tracker, as it's the safest and smartest way to not lose your bird. There are many different types, but in-general they are small units that attach to your bird's Aviator Harness. So you have to free-fly your bird with him wearing his Aviator-Harness and with the GPS-tracker attached to his Aviator Harness, and then you sync-it with the App on your cellphone. Spending a couple hundred dollars (or less if you buy a pre-owned one on eBay) will let you know exactly where your bird is if and when he takes-off. Priceless piece of equipment...#2) is that you must always first start out your bird's free-flight training by "Recall-Training" him INDOORS. You can't just take your bird outside and let him loose and expect him to come back to you, no matter how "bonded" he is to you. It doesn't work that way. So most people buy a "training stand" or "free-flight" stand, which is usually a large, natural branch attached to a collapsible Tripod that you can fold-up and take in your car. You make that your bird's "home-base" right from the beginning, and you use that indoors to "Recall Train" your bird to always come to you when you call him. Finding his favorite treat in the world and reserving that treat ONLY for rewarding him during free-flight is imperative. And also buying the "training extension lead" for your Aviator Harness is also necessary, as it will give your bird 50-100 feet of leash on his Aviator Harness, and that way you can do Recall-Training outside safely with him wearing his Aviator Harness and it still being attached to your wrist, but he'll have enough leash to be able to do Recall-Training from his "Training Stand" or "Free-flight stand" at increasing distances up to 100 feet or more (I've seen people with massively long training-leads on their Aviator Harnesses outside)...And only when you're 100% confident that your bird is fully Recall-Trained do you EVER consider letting him free outside...So it's a process of buying the correct/necessary equipment, and then a long, long basic Recall-Training period before you ever let him loose outside. Most people do Recall-Training for months and months to over a year before they ever let their birds loose outside...

In my opinion free-flight isn't worth the risk at all, I've seen so many birds, and well-trained birds, just take-off and never come back. Owners searching for days and weeks on-end without sleeping, it's just terrible. And it's your fault, and you keep reminding yourself of that...And honestly, in my own opinion, if you free-fly your bird without having a GPS unit on them, you're just an irresponsible idiot. Period. They are not expensive anymore, you can get a very good unit for around $200 new, and there is no excuse at all for not using one if you're going to free-fly your bird. Period.

Thanks EllenD for this info, I appreciate it.

Anansi · Dec 28, 2018

A lot of great advice given already, so no need for me to cover well-trodden ground. But here's something of an alternative which I thought was a great idea: http://www.parrotforums.com/macaws/64982-batting-cages-birds.html

SilleIN · Jan 1, 2019

I would just add one thing. Do NOT free fly your bird in an aviator harness. The aviator has a rather long leash and they end up getting tangled on branches and may kill your bird.

I have designed a harness, that can carry a gps, where you detach the leash for when you free fly your bird.

sillein-albums-other-stuff-picture18977-parrot-harness.jpg

sillein-albums-other-stuff-picture18976-parrot-harness.jpg

sillein-albums-other-stuff-picture18978-parrot-harness.jpg

And as previous mentioned- free flight should not be taken on lightly. There are so many elements to it and it takes about a years training before my birds get to fly outside. And even then I start with rather small closed spaces with no wind or other distractions. I would say I use about 1½ year before my birds gets to fly truly outside, where they can fly where ever they like. AND I live in Scandinavia, the largest birds of prey able to attack a bird in flight are European kestrels (about 1/3 size of an eckie).

Even though there should not ever migrate any dangerous birds to my area, every spring I check with the Danish Ornithological Society if any larger birds of prey has been spotted in my country (they have a website listing all bird sightings of birds of prey). I don't know if you have something similar in your country, but that is a real help for me.

PenClem · Jan 7, 2019

I posed this same question to Facebook group members and got some conflicting info. Most who replied were avid free flight fans. Some who replied were dead set against it. Either way, I believe the bird's safety is the number one priority. I would suspect A LOT of time, training and patience goes into this, and I whole-heartedly agree that the bird(s) should be microchipped with current info and wear a GPS tracking device.

I found this channel on YouTube and thought it might be helpful to share here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1BpMn4ErGPo8XB3Rzltojg

I was also given this link for free-flight classes and additional info: Avian Training and Flight Instruction

I hope the info I've shared here is helpful to you. Please keep us posted on what you decide to do with your bird. I'd be interested to learn how your progress goes.

ParrotGenie · Jan 18, 2019

To free flight a bird is very high risk and you need to have your bird microchipped with current info and train them to wear a harness with a 3g 4g GPS tracking device. Yes they have to be train just to wear the harness. Then you need two training stands as well so they can fly back and forth and learn flight distance and ETC. A lot of training indoors before even considering it as your bird has to learn recall and target training. Flight believe it, or not is not something a bird just knows they have to learn it.

The other issues you will come across is surroundings as your bird has to adapt to being outside while wildlife has adapts as well. You can't just take a bird outdoor and free flight a bird, they have to be use to area first. Then you have outdoor noises likely slamming of doors, or ladders and etc. They get spooked easy and will fly, or jump off, then you lose, or injury your bird. You have to train your bird for this as I did mines, so they don't get spooked easy. Then you have birds of prey that can cause your bird to change course and fly off and can get lost in the process.

As far as leash on his Aviator Harness I actually find not to as your bird don't learn how to come back properly and once they get off leash, or bite it, up a tree they go, or worst get lost. . Plus fine they can get tangle in branches and ETC. Only use leash flight line for recall training and in wide open area where it can't get tangle. The harness is needed to mount GPS to and you can use trackimo is one good one . They do have leg mounted GPS we use to train raptors but over $1000 for system.

I only did it as take my cockatoos everywhere I go pretty much on my shoulder during the spring, or summer to stores even and even potty trained them, as I don't use the diapers, or flight suits.

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