Am I losing my baby?

Valyndris

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Jacob the blue and gold macaw
So I adopted my mother's blue and gold macaw Jacob on April 28th. He has been amazing, and he always loved me the most, I am his favorite person. He used to hate my husband but is now getting better with him. We used to have a routine where my husband gave most of the treats and only I did the discipline.

Well, recently Jacob has changed. He is more used to my husband and seems to not care for me as much (I'm the main care taker, my husband still can't pick him up). Jacob used to always want to be on me whenever I'd watch a show. Recently, especially since having to discipline him a lot for climbing down to the floor (I use a spray bottle to make him go back up), I feel like I'm losing his trust and love. Since Jacob no longer hates my husband I let him do some discipline and I now give him at least half his treats.

I am scared I'm going to lose my baby just like it happened to my mom. She was his main care taker when she had him for 15 years. Over time Jacob liked her less and less and she could barley handle him at all by the end. I'm so worried that this will happen to me too.

He rarely listens anymore and doesn't step up when I tell him to anymore (he used to step up every time I offered before). My best strategy to pick him up when he doesn't want to is to either have my husband stand next to me so he gets jealous enough to want to be on me or I talk to my snake which is in a tank next to Jacob's cage (no worries he can't come out and gets up usually when Jacob goes to bed upstairs). I don't like having to make him jealous of something just to get him on me.

I don't mind if he just wants to be on me less and would rather play with his toys but I'm just scared I will lose his love and trust like he did to my mother.

Is this likely what is happening or am I overly worried? If I am losing him then what can I do to prevent it? I love my Jacob so much and taking care of him would be so hard if he wants nothing to do with me and doesn't listen.
 

Amsterdam

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wow thats some behaviour i never heard and i lack knowledge for this but im sure other members can answer your qeustion
 

itzjbean

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I've read before somewhere that parrots are selfish beings! They want what they want and then suddenly they don't.

I have gone through the same thing with my cockatiel! He was my baby and then he decided my husband was his favorite! After all the love and training and treats I gave him, how could he do that to me! Eventually he came back to liking me about the same amount but he still likes to fly and perch on husband's head and lunge at me if I try to take him off.

This is farily common -- parrots picking a new favorite -- and unfortunately there is not very much you can do about it except know tht parrots are like this, they change their favorite person and then decide that another person is their favorite after that. We can only respect their wishes and know they are healthy and happy no matter who they prefer at that moment. It comes and it goes, but my best advice is to not let it get to you, they are like toddlers with a ME tendency, they are selfish and don't care whose feelings they hurt.

If I were in your shoes, I would have husband stop all treat giving and you begin offering all treats now to entice him to step up and be with you, and just start there.
 
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Tami2

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I have heard of this as well.

Here is my situation. I am still Levi's main squeeze.
However, he is obsessed with my husband. I think it's the psychology, you want what you can't have.
Levi has bit my husband too many times and now he is aloof with him. He is just not a fan. Levi being his brilliant self, knows this. So, where ever hubby is, Levi wants to be. My husband will not handle him because, most likely he'll get bit and hard. So, I have come up with a compromise, when watching TV he will allow Levi to perch on his belly. And only, if I ask and put him there. :D
 

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I have also heard of this happening, and not sure there's much that can be done about his choices. The one thing I might offer is just my opinion. The spray bottle as a deterrent/punishment to me jumps out as a potential issue. Personally, I always want the spray bottle to be associated with good things, so we don't have anything negative about bathing on the occasions when they just need a quick misting, or I don't have the time for the full on shower. Mine would definitely have problems with me if I suddenly started chasing them away with the spray bottle.

Just food for thought. Might have nothing to do with it, but thought I'd throw it out there. I'm big on exploring every possibility when looking at behavior changes. Good luck. Jacob is a beauty!

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Aspie_Aviphile

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Parrots don't discipline each other, disciplining requires an agreement between two parties that one of you will let the other get their way at all times, in exchange for protection or care. Using body language and facial expression and vocal tone, dogs and humans, dogs and dogs, and humans and humans can easily come to this agreement without words, but parrots have no instinctive template for making agreements like that, just as humans have no instinctive template for the kind of social relationships sought by eclectus parrots. I can't relate to wanting to sit at home all day while different males bring me food and raise all our children collectively, because I don't have genes for that instinct. Equally a parrot presumably doesn't understand why you are calmly and with no warning body language just doing something that irritates him every time he gets on the floor, instead of claiming your territory in the way his own instincts would allow him to understand, i.e. claiming the floor as your territory and using parrot body language and parrot vocalisations to warn him to back off it.

I call Bo my baby boy all the time, but there are some very important differences between parrot psychology and child psychology, and this is one of them: as humans, normally developing toddlers map the instinctive template of "the person in charge", as a benign protective figure who expects authority over them in return, on to those who BEHAVE like a benign protective figure who expects authority over them in return. Hence, receiving emotionlessly delivered punishment for willful disobedience isn't pleasant but it at least makes conceptual sense to a child's mind just as it makes sense to an adult when we disobey our own benign authority figures. However, a parrot will not interpret you as a benign authority figure, regardless of how you behave. As a chick he has the concept of a protective caregiver, his parents, but not of one that must be appeased with aquiescence; there aren't many orders to be given in a small boring bird's nest anyway. Trying to make him to feel secure and socially fulfilled as the passive party in an unbalanced relationship won't work, just as a group of men bringing you gifts everyday and raising your children in a harem isn't going to start feeling good for you if you don't have the genes for polyamory in the first place. Parrots are instinctively egalitarian. They understand squabbles and winning some and losing some, not mutually agreed upon dominance relationships. I find much of the advice by instinct and body language-focuses cat behaviourists works well for Bo, as they too are egalitarian by nature. One of the main principles with cats is making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea. For example I sing to Bo to get him to fly down to me. It never fails because he happens to be obsessed with me singing and gets close to my face whenever I do.

I hope this helps. I love learning parrot body language and watching his response when I teeth grind to relax or stare and open my mouth at him when he touches my stuff. It feels like a real connection when you're speaking the same language. :)
 

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Yeah, the spray bottle also jumps out to me too. That is like 1970's thinking , to spray water at a parrot to discourage behavior. Parrots do not react well to negative discipline. TO try and fix your relationship with Jacob, switch to you giving treats. Try to understand why he goes to the ground to get somewhere, instead of flying, hi is fully feathered, correct?

It's NEVER the fault of the parrot. It is ALWAYS the fault of the human. Work from that vantage point, you will understand the answer better.

Good luck, I really love hearing about Jacob, one of my favorite Blue and Gold Macaws.
 

wrench13

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" making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea."
Perfect advice for parrot problems.
 
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Valyndris

Valyndris

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Thank you all for the great replies. First I'd like to mention Jacob turns into a full T-Rex when he's on the floor, I can't pick him up or he'll just charge at me or try to bite me. This might be due to a giant human being intimidating when they are so low. He also does some nesting behavior when he finds a dark room or corner, like the bathroom or under the computer desk.

If I don't use the spray bottle he'll just run rampant and own the house (and chew it). My worst case option when the bottle doesn't work is having to grab him with a doubled up thick blanket with welding gloves on (he can bit through both layers of blanket easily). Just to answer one of the questions above, I use a green spray bottle on jet setting for discipline and a white bottle on mist for showers and he doesn't associate them together at all and still enjoys showers.

The spray bottle did stop him from climbing down for a while until he did it a few times and I made the mistake of playing ball with him right after the discipline so he now associates going to the floor with getting attention. I am trying to undo this behavior by only disciplining him when he does it then ignoring him. If he can't be disciplined as stated above, they sure do like to do what they want when they want and Jacob is the most selfish thing in the world. For those who watch south park, I call Jacob a "Cartman" as he acts just like that kid. What is, if there is such a thing, a better way to handle this?

He's a weirdo because I'll try to pick him up to watch a show, he won't step up but then climbs down the back of his cage for attention... What a silly macaw, I was literally just offering the best attention I could give and he denied it to get a different kind of attention. He might be getting used to the spray bottle as sometimes he'll just dance or even say "haha".

I am mostly the treat person now as I don't want to lose my baby but my husband still does a few treats as he's gotten a lot of progress with Jacob and we don't want to lose that either.

I just thought of something, when Jacob climbs down for attention he can't really destroy anything other than the newspaper on the floor till he usually ends up climbing the chair closest to him. I can easily pick him up from there by just pointing the spray bottle at him and not needing to spray him. Would this be a better route to go or would this reinforce that the floor is okay by letting him roam the floor around his cage till I can actually pick him up from the chair and lock him up for a bit and ignore of course.

I hate having to spray him but climbing down seems to be one of his favorite things to do now. I swear he just likes getting the humans going. I only spray when he keep going down and doesn't listen. If he climbs back up without needing to get sprayed then I don't spray unless it's been like the 5th time he climbs down in a row.

As for Jacob switching loyalty, I have heard of it but didn't expect it so soon. My husband works shift work and can't always be around to feed him and put him to bed if he ends up preferring him. I am home all the time and can do everything with Jacob, I was his favorite for over 15 years and it hurts to see him want me less and less.

One more question, can his love for me be kind of seasonal thing like during the breeding season he'll want me as a mate and now that winter is coming he is just wanting to spend more time by himself?
 
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Valyndris

Valyndris

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Yeah, the spray bottle also jumps out to me too. That is like 1970's thinking , to spray water at a parrot to discourage behavior. Parrots do not react well to negative discipline. TO try and fix your relationship with Jacob, switch to you giving treats. Try to understand why he goes to the ground to get somewhere, instead of flying, hi is fully feathered, correct?

It's NEVER the fault of the parrot. It is ALWAYS the fault of the human. Work from that vantage point, you will understand the answer better.

Good luck, I really love hearing about Jacob, one of my favorite Blue and Gold Macaws.

His wings are clipped but I let them grow back for the winter. I worry about him flying as he has bird asthma (I forget the real name for it) and has almost died from this a few times. He very likely got it when my mom had a bunch of cockatiels in the same room as him.

I wouldn't mind him being able to fly in the house and come summer if I do keep his wings grown in I'd have to put a leash on him which is hard to do but it is doable. I'd definitely consider letting him keep his wing feathers if this can fix the issue. One concern about that is he would still love to chomp my husband and what if he kept flying on him?

As far as giving treats instead of discipline water, how and when would I do this? I can't simply give him a treat when he climbs back up or he'll for sure keep climbing down for treats. I normally give him nuts in the morning in his foraging toys and 2 at supper time for tricks. I can easily just use all those for training. I am just not sure on how to go about it, that's why I haven't done it.
 

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So look at it from Jacobs point of view. What do I want? Food? likely not. Something to do (bored)? Has he enough toys to chew and of a variety of them? Parrots need a variety of toys to chew and throw around, and they get bored with the sameold ones. WE have to replace and get new toys for Salty like ince a month, and I try to get different ones, but similar to ones I know he likes. Or attention ? That's the hardest one to deal with becasue they seek attention but may have learned that negative behaviour gets the quickest or most action from their human.
 

Justrosie

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Parrots are instinctively egalitarian. They understand squabbles and winning some and losing some, not mutually agreed upon dominance relationships. I find much of the advice by instinct and body language-focuses cat behaviourists works well for Bo, as they too are egalitarian by nature. One of the main principles with cats is making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea.

Thanks so much for this information, it's very interesting!
 
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Valyndris

Valyndris

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So look at it from Jacobs point of view. What do I want? Food? likely not. Something to do (bored)? Has he enough toys to chew and of a variety of them? Parrots need a variety of toys to chew and throw around, and they get bored with the sameold ones. WE have to replace and get new toys for Salty like ince a month, and I try to get different ones, but similar to ones I know he likes. Or attention ? That's the hardest one to deal with becasue they seek attention but may have learned that negative behaviour gets the quickest or most action from their human.

He's got plenty of toys that he loves to play with between climbing down sessions. He's got plastic cups and boats he likes to chew and I always make Jacob new wooden toys when he chews his. He also has a leather toy that he loves to chew. I try to move things around and switch toys around once in a while.

" making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea."
Perfect advice for parrot problems.

This is good advice and I think I just accidentally discovered a way to make him go back up himself (his idea) without having to threaten him. I decided just to go in the kitchen to get something while he was on the floor. Me leaving the room prompted him to go back up as he knows he won't get attention if I'm not there. I've done it a few times today and it's been working. So glad he doesn't stay on the floor to chew things, I did have to put barricades to stop him going in some places but that is now solved.

Argh, I think I just jinxed myself. He did it just now as I'm typing this, he climbed down so I went to the kitchen, he climbed up a bit then went right back down and started chewing furniture. Well at least it works sometimes. This bird is being so bad lately but I still love him so much. He doesn't get fooled by my tricks for long, he probably just figured out I come back if he chews things. My bird that has a mind of a 2 year old is outsmarting me.
 

Ellie777Australia

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Parrots don't discipline each other, disciplining requires an agreement between two parties that one of you will let the other get their way at all times, in exchange for protection or care. Using body language and facial expression and vocal tone, dogs and humans, dogs and dogs, and humans and humans can easily come to this agreement without words, but parrots have no instinctive template for making agreements like that, just as humans have no instinctive template for the kind of social relationships sought by eclectus parrots. I can't relate to wanting to sit at home all day while different males bring me food and raise all our children collectively, because I don't have genes for that instinct. Equally a parrot presumably doesn't understand why you are calmly and with no warning body language just doing something that irritates him every time he gets on the floor, instead of claiming your territory in the way his own instincts would allow him to understand, i.e. claiming the floor as your territory and using parrot body language and parrot vocalisations to warn him to back off it.

I call Bo my baby boy all the time, but there are some very important differences between parrot psychology and child psychology, and this is one of them: as humans, normally developing toddlers map the instinctive template of "the person in charge", as a benign protective figure who expects authority over them in return, on to those who BEHAVE like a benign protective figure who expects authority over them in return. Hence, receiving emotionlessly delivered punishment for willful disobedience isn't pleasant but it at least makes conceptual sense to a child's mind just as it makes sense to an adult when we disobey our own benign authority figures. However, a parrot will not interpret you as a benign authority figure, regardless of how you behave. As a chick he has the concept of a protective caregiver, his parents, but not of one that must be appeased with aquiescence; there aren't many orders to be given in a small boring bird's nest anyway. Trying to make him to feel secure and socially fulfilled as the passive party in an unbalanced relationship won't work, just as a group of men bringing you gifts everyday and raising your children in a harem isn't going to start feeling good for you if you don't have the genes for polyamory in the first place. Parrots are instinctively egalitarian. They understand squabbles and winning some and losing some, not mutually agreed upon dominance relationships. I find much of the advice by instinct and body language-focuses cat behaviourists works well for Bo, as they too are egalitarian by nature. One of the main principles with cats is making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea. For example I sing to Bo to get him to fly down to me. It never fails because he happens to be obsessed with me singing and gets close to my face whenever I do.

I hope this helps. I love learning parrot body language and watching his response when I teeth grind to relax or stare and open my mouth at him when he touches my stuff. It feels like a real connection when you're speaking the same language. :)


An excellent perspective and insight.:)
 

Ellie777Australia

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So look at it from Jacobs point of view. What do I want? Food? likely not. Something to do (bored)? Has he enough toys to chew and of a variety of them? Parrots need a variety of toys to chew and throw around, and they get bored with the sameold ones. WE have to replace and get new toys for Salty like ince a month, and I try to get different ones, but similar to ones I know he likes. Or attention ? That's the hardest one to deal with becasue they seek attention but may have learned that negative behaviour gets the quickest or most action from their human.

He's got plenty of toys that he loves to play with between climbing down sessions. He's got plastic cups and boats he likes to chew and I always make Jacob new wooden toys when he chews his. He also has a leather toy that he loves to chew. I try to move things around and switch toys around once in a while.

" making them think what you want them to do was actually their idea."
Perfect advice for parrot problems.

This is good advice and I think I just accidentally discovered a way to make him go back up himself (his idea) without having to threaten him. I decided just to go in the kitchen to get something while he was on the floor. Me leaving the room prompted him to go back up as he knows he won't get attention if I'm not there. I've done it a few times today and it's been working. So glad he doesn't stay on the floor to chew things, I did have to put barricades to stop him going in some places but that is now solved.

Argh, I think I just jinxed myself. He did it just now as I'm typing this, he climbed down so I went to the kitchen, he climbed up a bit then went right back down and started chewing furniture. Well at least it works sometimes. This bird is being so bad lately but I still love him so much. He doesn't get fooled by my tricks for long, he probably just figured out I come back if he chews things. My bird that has a mind of a 2 year old is outsmarting me.


Hi Valyndris,


Remember all of the threads/posts that you've read in that the parrot will choose to bond with whom ever they choose! On the positive note, Jacob is still your boy and you are primary parront. With our Ekkies, they share the love around so we are used to this. I'm the primary parront and to quote Tami2, 'I'm Ellie's and now Bertie's main squeeze'. However, when my hubby walks into the room Ellie can't wait to get his attention. She drops me like a hot potato.



If walking on the floor is a no-no and you must change the behaviour then all the best.



You will work through this :).
 

AmyMyBlueFront

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Have you tried using a stick/perch when Jacob is on the floor and ask him to step up?



Jim
 
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Valyndris

Valyndris

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Jacob the blue and gold macaw
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Well Jacob just keeps climbing down more and more, I rearranged his toys and added a lot but boredom is not the issue, I'm pretty such because it's fall, Jacob is looking for a dark corner to nest in. He kept going under the table that is next to him which has lots of cables there.

Anyway, yesterday it took me over an hour to actually get him, I had to spray him to stop him from chewing cables. This ended up where both my poor Jacob and I stressed right out. I have since put a large piece of plexi glass to stop him from going under that table (after trying a bunch of other things that failed).

I am thinking instead of not letting him go to the floor, since he does it anyway, I can compromise. Would it be a good or bad idea if I let him climb down but encourage him to come see me or go on the chair where I can easily get him? I feel as though this will strengthen our relationship rather than make it worse as instead of constantly telling him to go back up and threatening him with a spray bottle which doesn't really fix anything as he climbs down 5 minutes later, I would be encouraging him to come see me and share my love in his time of need where he's just confused and wanting to nest. I have fixed the part where he goes in bad places with barricades so the closest option is to climb the chair now.

The only thing I was worried about when letting him climb down to see me is that he'd do it all the time but seeing as he just climbs down anyway this feels like the best compromise. At least if I encourage him to see me he won't have to be scared that I'll spray him anymore and I can get my baby back. If I don't want him on me I can just pick him up off the chair easily and put him back. If he keeps doing it I can put him in his cage as spending some time locked in his cage once in a while shouldn't be too bad as he has a big cage with lots to do in there. I'd also like to mention Jacob is a full T-Rex when on the floor and is impossible to pick up.

I'd like to hear everyone else's thoughts, is this a good idea or is there something I can do better?

Thanks,
Mel
 
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Valyndris

Valyndris

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Jacob the blue and gold macaw
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Well just to update anyone that is curious or is having the same issue. I did start to let him go to the floor with the intent that he'd want to come see me but he just kept finding places he wanted to nest. So I kept adding barricades to stop him till I think I've finally solved the problem, hopefully this is just a fall phase which I'm sure it is. Here's a video of what I did. I still watch him when he climbs down as there is always some way to be bad.
[ame="https://youtu.be/AnQofwhE5Lo"]https://youtu.be/AnQofwhE5Lo[/ame]
 

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