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Old 04-16-2019, 07:01 PM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

this topic has been blowing up lately and I agree that it's just downright negligent to let your cat free-roam unsupervised. Catios or leash training your cat are excellent forms of getting them outside without hurting the cat or wildlife.
I recently saw a post saying "when did it become human responsibility to take care of cats" like excuse me what? we domesticated them and you (cat owners) took them in as pets. They're your pet. They are your responsibility. Do people really think owning a cat is just a pet without any commitment? Really??
On my nextdoor app someone posted a video of a gorgeous fox just minding it's own business. Comments were flooded with "don't be fooled by that pretty fox it killed my cats and has been hunting the other cats in my cul de sac. it lures my neighbors cat out of the house to attack it" ??? then keep your cats inside ESPECIALLY if you know there's a predator actively around? The fox isn't evil or anything it's just doing what's natural and it founds good hunting spot and its gonna reap the benefits. I just dont get it. Most cat owners could easily be compared to flat earthers and other such communities that simply neglect to face the facts and multiple studies that go against their argument.
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Old 04-16-2019, 07:26 PM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

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Old 04-16-2019, 08:19 PM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

Quote: Originally Posted by bill_e View Post
Cat owners may have brain parasites, but amazon owners are straight up addicted to that wonderful odor our amazons produce It’s like a drug! And owners of several other bird species report a similar pleasant scent their hooked on emanating from their feathered companions. Let’s face it, sniffing birds is pretty weird.....

From an outsiders perspective, a cat running loose recking havoc on local ecosystems is horrifying, but to the cat owner, they probably see it as letting their cat do what cats do naturally, getting exercise, breathing fresh air, engaging in natural behaviors etc... Those blinders of love and devotion to the pet is probably a big driving factor in why a lot of cat owners let them run loose and see no issue with it. Just like a lot of bird owners don’t bat an eye at bird poop dripping down their back or on the kitchen counter etc... it’s just a little bird poop after all. Or when great aunt Susie’s wood chair gets a few nibble marks, it’s just what birds do right? I see comparisons in the bird community, though I think a lot of bird owners opt to potty train or keep their antique furniture out of beak reach etc... just like many cat owners keep them indoors or on a leash outside. I think there’s a subset of individuals in every category of pet owners that just have a more “lax” attitude, be it right or wrong, regarding “letting the animal be an animal” VS training it appropriately and taking responsible precautions to make it into a pet suited to a domestic home environment. That said, choosing not to potty train your bird or allowing it to destroy family heirlooms doesn’t hurt local wildlife or impose on neighbors or allow unchecked breeding/feral populations to grow.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:01 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

well I can bring some insight from the other side on this as over the years all my cats have been allowed to roam. Of course things over here are different with the lack of as many hazards to them in the form of predators. In fact having roaming cats as I've come to know them are quite common here, often times I'll see cats when out for a walk and make a friend.

Though not in the manner of kicking them out in the morning and bringing them back in the evening, but just they can come in and out as they please. Out of all the cats that have been in the family (nearing 20 total, some had kittens) we only had one get injured by a farmer firing his gun at something and her getting hit by one of the pellets (she survived happily) the rest of them never got into trouble, most times they would hang out either in the garden, on the roof or in and around the neighbors. Though when my mum got her new big dog one did decide he was going to move in with the family down the road, still see him from time to time and he still recognizes us.

The funniest one I remember is one of the cats walking with me to my old job and just ended up sitting around by the back door for most of the day then came back with me, she was a bit of an oddball. Though more often than not the cats would be around the house relaxing, playing and demanding attention.

Saying all that there's definite reasons more to at keeping your cat indoors, especially in more built up areas. I've been lucky to always be situated in more rural areas than built up. No way would I allow a cat to roam in a city. Also the general area I am now I wouldn't allow a cat to roam right now as there's some sick person decapitating cats which local authorities cannot be bothered to catch so keep claiming it's a fox. You know, because foxes cleanly cut the head off and dump the remains at the owners front door...

I do find it funny how I never really thought about it until now, it's always just been how the cats are with my family, they come and go as they please and nobody really bats an eyelid.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:25 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

As someone who grew up in the US and with family in the US, I totally feel you, Ellen. But just as a fun fact - in Singapore, government/public housing (which an overwhelming majority of the population lives in) has made it illegal to keep cats in the flats/apartments. So people either illegally keep cats (and risk getting reported), or the whole community comes together and takes care of the neighbourhood/roaming cats, feeding them and bringing them to the vet (including for spaying/neutering).
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:14 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
As someone who grew up in the US and with family in the US, I totally feel you, Ellen. But just as a fun fact - in Singapore, government/public housing (which an overwhelming majority of the population lives in) has made it illegal to keep cats in the flats/apartments. So people either illegally keep cats (and risk getting reported), or the whole community comes together and takes care of the neighbourhood/roaming cats, feeding them and bringing them to the vet (including for spaying/neutering).
I wonder if this has to do with allergies and them being government owned? After living in cat/dog free apartments, 2 of them pretty gross old units, when we bought our condo the prior owner had cats (as evidenced by the cat hair/grease caked kitchen) and despite deep cleaning the place floor to ceiling, vacuuming 3x a week and running air purifiers 24/7, I had allergies for about 2 years! I could see publicly managed units not wanting to run that risk when the tenant who had cats moves out and a new tenant with cat allergies moves in. It’s so hard to remove the cat detritus (I think it’s actually the dander and saliva people are allergic to) left behind and so many people have bad allergies to them.

Plus, I don’t think places like Singapore have much wildlife around. Just a lot of rats and mice and pigeons that people are probably happy to have less of around because they are pests with no natural predators in the area. That may also be why a similar program mentioned earlier works so well in NYC- the cats aren’t killing animals that are beneficial to the local ecosystem because there isn’t one in the same context as more suburban or rural areas. In many places though, they kill native songbirds, rodents, reptiles and amphibians that feed natural predators like owls, hawks, foxes, snakes etc...
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:07 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

Quote: Originally Posted by Kiwibird View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by charmedbyekkie View Post
As someone who grew up in the US and with family in the US, I totally feel you, Ellen. But just as a fun fact - in Singapore, government/public housing (which an overwhelming majority of the population lives in) has made it illegal to keep cats in the flats/apartments. So people either illegally keep cats (and risk getting reported), or the whole community comes together and takes care of the neighbourhood/roaming cats, feeding them and bringing them to the vet (including for spaying/neutering).
I wonder if this has to do with allergies and them being government owned? After living in cat/dog free apartments, 2 of them pretty gross old units, when we bought our condo the prior owner had cats (as evidenced by the cat hair/grease caked kitchen) and despite deep cleaning the place floor to ceiling, vacuuming 3x a week and running air purifiers 24/7, I had allergies for about 2 years! I could see publicly managed units not wanting to run that risk when the tenant who had cats moves out and a new tenant with cat allergies moves in. Itís so hard to remove the cat detritus (I think itís actually the dander and saliva people are allergic to) left behind and so many people have bad allergies to them.

Plus, I donít think places like Singapore have much wildlife around. Just a lot of rats and mice and pigeons that people are probably happy to have less of around because they are pests with no natural predators in the area. That may also be why a similar program mentioned earlier works so well in NYC- the cats arenít killing animals that are beneficial to the local ecosystem because there isnít one in the same context as more suburban or rural areas. In many places though, they kill native songbirds, rodents, reptiles and amphibians that feed natural predators like owls, hawks, foxes, snakes etc...
You'd think if all you know about Singapore was 'city-state'.

Regarding public housing, it actually works that people consider that buying a flat (because it is buying a flat in a way), but it's really just leasing for 99-years (not joking). So it's not like other countries where public housing is shorter-term (versus 99 years at least). So it's really not about allergies at all because if you buy a flat, you live there until you die (few people move after buying it). It really just seems to be the government considering cats as pests (you should hear some comments made by local politicians).

And there's plenty of wildlife if you don't go to the tourist areas and actually go where people live. Mynahs, starlings, bulbuls, orioles, moustache parakeets are all found in my street alone. And most neighbourhoods have a local eagle or goshawk or kite hunting there as well. The wildlife here really does live amongst the humans - you can find a monitor lizard casually walking down some streets, but pythons typically bring the government to help make the area 'safe' again

So, at the end of the day, I'm all for domicile-kept cats (just like I'm for domicile-kept birds) - outside is good with supervision. But I can understand why some people let their cats roam..
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:41 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

I did know about the 99 year leases. I did not know that was all there was. I thought there were some people in the long term leases and others in shorter term leases more comparable to renting in the US. A lot of people in US public/subsidized housing in larger cities stay there for a very long time/most of their life, though I don’t think it’s considered “owning” the apartment here even if you stay there for decades. Cultural difference I guess.

I haven’t been to Asia but I did spend a few weeks in Manhattan for a training course when I was younger and I didn’t see much of anything besides a few rats and legions of pigeons. I think there is some wildlife in their parks and commuter suburbs, but not much in the city to speak of. Perhaps I’m wrong, it was only a few weeks, but it was really creepy as I have family who lives upstate and there is tons of wildlife up there, yet in the city I saw nothing besides pests and feral dogs/cats.
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Old 04-17-2019, 11:44 AM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

Cats are not responsible for their proclivities but humans have the duty to restrain the feline assault on birds. Shelters are overloaded with unwanted cats due to virtually unfettered breeding.

Cat "cafes" are an upcoming fad with high-kill shelter refugees available for adoption in festive setting. A local facility charges $12/hr to play with kitties and purchase Starbucks-like items from attached store. Free wifi of course!
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:07 PM
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Re: Why Do People Have Cats If They Just Let Them Run Outside All-Day, Every-Day???

Holy S**T, this Toxoplasma gondii is a real thing !!
This could explain the behavior of several people I know, and reaffirms my aversion to felines.
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